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Model Shipways Bluenose, Sails or not


Worldway

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I will be building Model Shipways Bluenose and I'm undecided on whether to include sails or not or furled sails.  I'm curious what others think.  I know there are threads about the advantages or disadvantages of sails but I'm talking about one particular model, not models in general.  Thoughts???

Derek

If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea  

Antoine de Saint Exupery

 

Current Builds

Bluenose - Model Shipways - 1:64 Scale

Fair American - Model Shipways - 1:48 Scale

HMS Winchelsea 1764 - Group Build

On Deck

Guns of History Naval Smoothbore Deck Gun - 1:24 Scale

Finished Builds

Mare Nostrum - Artesania Latina - 1:35 Scale

Guns of History Carronade - Model Shipways - 1:24 Scale

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

 

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Controversial issue! I have seen people on MSW opine that sails actually ruin the model. Very often they will say that sails block the view and the viewer can't appreciate the model fully. They will tell you that you can never get the material to scale properly and it will always look wrong. I don't think I'm putting words in anyone's mouth here, there is a strong and vocal anti-sails contingent! And to be fair to them, sails on models ARE an excellent way to ruin a model by undoing all the carefull hull work with crude sails above it. Sails are very difficult to get right, they are deceptively troublesome. If you look at Completed Builds it's hard to find even very popular kits like the Pride of Baltimore or HMSVictory or Niagara with sails on them. I have not looked lately but at one point I could find only ONE Victory with sails on her in the Completed section. I'm going to say that deciding to add sails on a square rigged model, and try to get them right, adds an ENORMOUS amount of time to the build, perhaps weeks of work.

Plus if you do the sails, now you are obligated to do all the running rigging, and understand it too. Many reference works don't even touch on the running rigging of particular ships.

  

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 Niagara USS Constitution 

 

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But you did ask about the Bluenose in particular, not sails on models in general. Personally I'm in FAVOR of sails on all schooner models. Why? Because of the nature of the schooner rig. With no square yards schooners like Bluenose look particularly desolate with just a pair of naked sticks poking high up above the deck. From across the room, a Bluenose model with sails is going to look great and draw the eye. The huge volumes of space above the deck will be DEFINED by the sails. A bare-poled Bluenose will be hardly visible at all from across the room, and may actually appear to be incomplete. Also, rigging the Bluenose with sails is going to be relatively easy compared to rigging something square rigged, all you need to do is attach the halyards (which you would have to rig anyway) and put the sheets onto the headsails, you would already have sheets on he Fore and Main with bare poles.

Edited by JerseyCity Frankie

  

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 Niagara USS Constitution 

 

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I agree with Frankie regarding including sails on schooners.  I do not like sails on square rigged models, but I have always had sails on schooner models.  I was not in favor of it the first time I built one, but I was given no choice so included them and have no regrets and   have included sails on schooners ever since. 

 

Just one more opinion

 

Allan

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Appreciate the advise.  I'm actually of the same opinion that sails can ruin a model and hide a lot of the details.  I've also read that furled sails are hard to make to scale.  But, with the Bluenose I thought it would make the model more complete by adding the sails.  Frankie just confirmed my thoughts.  I asked the Admiral to do the sails for me and she seemed disappointed when I said I wasn't going to add the sails.  I guess I can make her happy once again.  After all, it's all about the Admiral.

 

Thanks for the help

Derek

If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea  

Antoine de Saint Exupery

 

Current Builds

Bluenose - Model Shipways - 1:64 Scale

Fair American - Model Shipways - 1:48 Scale

HMS Winchelsea 1764 - Group Build

On Deck

Guns of History Naval Smoothbore Deck Gun - 1:24 Scale

Finished Builds

Mare Nostrum - Artesania Latina - 1:35 Scale

Guns of History Carronade - Model Shipways - 1:24 Scale

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

 

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Hello Les here. I agree with the above. A schooner can  support a set of sails. As a Canadian this is an iconic ship. I purchased the book Bluenose, by Brian and Phil Backman. It has several pictures of this ship under full sail and a full history. ISBN: 0-7710-1000-1. Highly recommended. Also if you rig her with sails maybe consider doing a base that makes her look under sail instead of the traditional vertical bases. Woodland Scenics has great suggestions bases upon railroad dioramas but has excellent water effects. Just saying.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Great topic, I am wondering which way to go too, dressed or un-dressed Bluenose.

I think when it comes to ships like Bluenose, rigging them fully with sails is pleasing the eye.

While other ships with more complex rigging the sail might obscure the nice rigging details.

Bottom line - when I wil build my Bluenose, she will be "dressed".

 

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Respectfully

 

Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics 
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Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan

Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS

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  • 2 months later...

The plan (Sheet 5) for the sails for the Model Shipways Bluenose (1:64) is confusing at best; at least to me anyway. I would like to know if there is a resource available to obtain a clearer instruction/plan for the sails. Some advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi there

 

I just found this string as I am in the same stage.  My scratch build Bluenose is 1:24 scale, so I also have many different issues due to large size.  I may want to go with furled sails if i have the ability to de-step masts and travel,  and maybe go with full sails if I try to sail the boat.....therefor I am experimenting.

 

as to your comment on plans, the Lunenburg Bluenose II gift shop sells the Phillip Eisnor plans as does the modleshipbuilder site.  they are drawn to 1/4 scale for the boat and the sail plan is 1/8  in.  they are very good

 

cheers  

 

jon

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  • 3 weeks later...

I also felt that sails on a schooner model were important. I also agree that if you have sails, you need water. Here is my We're Here. (Please forgive the temporary tape on the display case). 

IMG_0661.thumb.JPG.28cc4fa8a47b568cead3b479e0b27a2e.JPG

I found that it was essential to reduce the sail area to about 60% of actual or the volume of sail material overwhelms the model, if sails are furled. Also, I find I get better looking sails when made of tissue paper than any cloth I've found. By saturating the bolt ropes in dilute white glue and allowing to dry before furling, the sail can be draped easily. 

Steve

 

"If they suspect me of intelligence, I am sure it will soon blow over, ha, ha, ha!"

-- Jack Aubrey

 

Builds:

Yankee Hero, Fannie Gorham, We’re Here, Dapper Tom (x3), New Bedford Whaler, US Brig Lawrence (Niagara), Wyoming (half hull), Fra Berlanga (half hull), Gokstad Viking Ship, Kate Cory, Charles Morgan, Gjoa

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Hello Derek,

 

This is indeed a good and healthy consideration.  I go through this every time I build a ship.

 

The Bluenose in my opinion, needs sails.

 

Another one is the Cutty Sark, my opinion.

 

Why not the best of both worlds, and apply a stormy sail rigging?

 

I did this on the Cutty Sark, and I love it.  The cloth is there, but not like in a light breeze and sunshine.

 

Greetings, Michael

 

Current fleet, plastic;  Cutty Sark, Revell 1975,  Gorch Fock, Heller 1986,  Royal Louis, Heller 1988,  Amerigo Vespucci, Heller 1990

To do;  Preussen and Passat, Heller

Wooden ships;  Karl and Marie, 1:50 Krick, 1991, Le Hussard (extremely bashed),  AL, scratch design, 2009

On the bench and struggling,  Dos Amigos, Occre

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  • 11 months later...

I am coming into this discussion a little late, but I thought I would throw my two cents into the pot.  While I agree with many that sails on square rigged models can detract, the Bluenose schooner almost screams for its full dress of sails.  Or at least that was my conclusion as I came to the question in my Bluenose build.  For what it is worth, here is a picture of my Bluenose completed and mounted under an acrylic display case.P1010249.thumb.jpg.cb491108caa6db606a7c24b2513a9056.jpg

Jim

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