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GUN PORTS...Which one is correct?


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Not sure which one of B, C or D is correct....

 

 A...Deck line parallel to water line...Ok, thats easy. Just a square.

 

In cases B, C and D, the deck line not parallel to W.L.

 

 B is like A....the left and right sides vertical to the Water Line, up and down parallel to the W.L.

 C has left and right sides vertical to the Water Line, up and down parallel to the Deck....Not a square. No right angles.

 D is a square with left and right sides "vertical" to the Deck Line, up and down "parallel" to the Deck Line.

 

Think D is the correct one, not sure though........

 

Any Advice pls?

 

Thanks,

Mike.

 

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Usually the sides of the ports were vertical, as you have in 'C'. However, depending on the ship, if there were drag (floating lower at the stern than bow) the ports would appear as if 'leaning' backwards. The frames were normally set upright on the keel, the sides of the frames forming the sides of the ports.

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

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Usually the sides of the ports were vertical, as you have in 'C'. However, depending on the ship, if there were drag (floating lower at the stern than bow) the ports would appear as if 'leaning' backwards. The frames were normally set upright on the keel, the sides of the frames forming the sides of the ports.

Thanks Druxey.... So you say C is the correct one?

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Have a look at the NMM plans section - you can see the ports are almost invariably vertical sided with various angle top and bottom depending upon position along the vessel 

 

eg http://www.rmg.co.uk/sites/default/files/styles/slider/public/images/J4207.jpg?itok=if47AICt

( I have always wondered how the port lids were hinged when they were slightlyt diamond shaped !!)

Thanks Spy .......and !!!!! I have exactly the same question- how do the hinges work!!!!!! I was thinking, maybe the upper side remains parallel to the waterline and the lower side is inclined...maybe

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I am pretty sure that the gun ports are parallelograms.

The frames define the sides and the deck decides the

sill and lentil. 

 

If you look at framing diagrams of

English warships of the 18th c and 19th c you will

see that they used some fairly elaborate positioning

to shift their frames so that whole timbers made up

the sides.  From my observations, the French and

Americans rolled the dice and cut into the timbers to

get the gun ports where they wanted them. Or let

the frames define the gun port location.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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First the most important question: What ship/era/nationality are we talking about :-)

 

It is he most common during the later times - as druxey and others point out - that the sides are vertical and bottom and top follow the line of the deck.

This allows the frames - which were build vertically - not to be weakened by cut outs and also gives the same height level towards the deck and also allows the spriketting to pass uncut underneath the ports.

 

This applies for carvel build with frame first and vertical frames.

 

Now the "it depends": Older ships build hull first - like Vasa or contemporary dutch builds - where the frames were afterwards applied into the hull and were not vertical, pointing towards the ship´s middle on the top, thus resulting in tilted squared ports like #D.

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi
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I agree with, Daniel. For a ship of the later 18th century, Druxey is right. For a dutch ship of the 17th century option d is also possible.

Regards Christian

 

Current build: HM Cutter Alert, 1777; HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - 1/36

On the drawing board: English Ship Sloops Fly, 1776, Comet, 1783 and Aetna, 1776; Naval Cutter Alert, 1777

Paused: HMS Triton, 1771 - 1/48

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." Salvador Dali

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In the case of parallelogram-shaped ports, the lid hinges were arranged to pivot in a horizontal plane. One hinge's axis would be located slightly higher above the upper edge of the port. Thus the lid could open and shut without binding.

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

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First the most important question: What ship/era/nationality are we talking about :-)

 

It is he most common during the later times - as druxey and others point out - that the sides are vertical and bottom and top follow the line of the deck.

This allows the frames - which were build vertically - not to be weakened by cut outs and also gives the same height level towards the deck and also allows the spriketting to pass uncut underneath the ports.

 

This applies for carvel build with frame first and vertical frames.

 

Now the "it depends": Older ships build hull first - like Vasa or contemporary dutch builds - where the frames were afterwards applied into the hull and were not vertical, pointing towards the ship´s middle on the top, thus resulting in tilted squared ports like #D.

 

XXXDAn

Hi dafi.......its about a late 18th century Mediterranean Brig

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I am pretty sure that the gun ports are parallelograms.

The frames define the sides and the deck decides the

sill and lentil. 

 

If you look at framing diagrams of

English warships of the 18th c and 19th c you will

see that they used some fairly elaborate positioning

to shift their frames so that whole timbers made up

the sides.  From my observations, the French and

Americans rolled the dice and cut into the timbers to

get the gun ports where they wanted them. Or let

the frames define the gun port location.

Hi Jag....Saying parallelograms, you mean Diamond shaped as in case C?

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In the case of parallelogram-shaped ports, the lid hinges were arranged to pivot in a horizontal plane. One hinge's axis would be located slightly higher above the upper edge of the port. Thus the lid could open and shut without binding.

Hi Druxey...do you happen to have a close-up drawing of this??

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Mac,

 

Yes, it is  'C".

A parallelogram is a closed structure with two pairs

of parallel lines. The sides are parallel and the top/bottom

are parallel.  They meet at something other than 90 degrees.

If they meet at 90 degrees, they have a special name: square/rectangle.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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A square is a parallelogram as well as being a rhombus and rectangle or so that old geometry teacher taught us ^_^  The angle at the corners can be anything, including 90 degrees.  As long as the opposing sides are parallel to each other and of equal length and the opposing angles are of equal measure it is a parallelogram.   Is this stuff useful?  Sure, but did I enjoy the classes? Not as much as history and geography! 
Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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Mac,

 

Yes, it is  'C".

A parallelogram is a closed structure with two pairs

of parallel lines. The sides are parallel and the top/bottom

are parallel.  They meet at something other than 90 degrees.

If they meet at 90 degrees, they have a special name: square/rectangle.

Thanks Jaager....I got what u mean. Just to add here that the exact is "'A Parallelogram is a flat shape with opposite sides parallel and equal in length."' which means that squares and rectangles are Parallelograms too.   A parallelogram where all angles are right angles is a rectangle.

Edited by BIGMAC
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A square is a parallelogram as well as being a rhombus and rectangle or so that old geometry teacher taught us ^_^  The angle at the corners can be anything, including 90 degrees.  As long as the opposing sides are parallel to each other and of equal length and the opposing angles are of equal measure it is a parallelogram.   Is this stuff useful?  Sure, but did I enjoy the classes? Not as much as history and geography! 

Allan

agreed!!!! even if the angles are 90, it is still a parallelogram.....

Edited by BIGMAC
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