Is this a counterfit kit?

[grsjax]

Ran across this on eBay.  It is from Russia.  Don't believe I have seen this seller/manufacture before.

[piter56]

This Russian company, in accordance with the rules, I can give a link to the site?  Link removed

Edited February 6, 2017 by piter56

[Chuck]

Yes indeed it is....that same scumbag company also pirated my lantern kits and other projects stolen from other MFGs....I removed the link.  The Russians are just as bad as the Chinese.   You would think with all of their master builders that they wouldnt have to steal other designs.   But yes that company is bad news.  They even use my assembly images taken from this site to help sell the lanterns.  I made the unfortunate mistake of including the parts diagram in the downloadable instructions.  Once again....You cant win!!!   I have known about this company for some time now.

 

When I first came across their site I had to laugh until I almost peed myself.   Written in russian it says "Dont buy from a foreign supplier.....we manufacture all of OUR products in our own facility"

 

 

If its out there they will find a way to steal it.  They have also stolen and pirated Jeff Staudt's Batteau because the Model ship builder site hasnt used any protections.....not that this stops them.  This company has already been added to the banned Kit makers list posted here.  I guess I should be flattered right?  Imitation the the greatest form of flattery or however that saying goes....

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/181-banned-kit-manufacturers-on-msw-pirated-kits-prohibited/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a link to the real thing.......buy the original and NOT the pirated Commie fakes

 

 

 

Chuck

[Nirvana]

 I made the unfortunate mistake of including the parts diagram in the downloadable instructions.  

 

 

 

Chuck

 

Chuck,

May I suggest you remove the parts diagram from the downloadable instructions or have the part diagram separate, only available per request? 

Or make them available only after purchase.

Just like we have in here with some of the group builds.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Nirvana

[Chuck]

Yes I know but the damage is done already.....I was too trusting and very naive.

 

Maybe I should partner with them as was mentioned in another thread by one of our members    .   That is why all future Syren parts and kits will no longer be sold with plans that include laser cut patterns.  For example...my new barge kit wont have any templates of parts....on the plans.  The plans will NOT be sold separately.  Because the parts are all included and laser cut in the kit, it isnt really needed.  I will use photographs of the parts in the instructions instead.  Its a shame really that it has come to this.  I have also removed the station lines from the body plan on the plan sheet so if they want to steal the barge design they will have to do some work to figure it out.  If they are even capable.  Live and learn.

 

I also no longer sell to Russia or China.  I do get orders but I simply cancel them.   Its a real shame I tell ya.   I am very close friends with two Russian model builders in the states.  They have family back home and brought this site to my attention last year and apologized on behalf of good Russian folks who dont condone the practice.  And they admit that the issue of piracy is as bad if not worse than in China.

 

They also pointed me to another Russian site which includes a free download of my Cheerful plans,  Syren Plans and Confederacy plans along with the practicum...which isnt even finished yet for Cheerful.  You can also download many books from Seawatch page by page in RAR format.  But those guys will end up with the nastiest of virus' on their computers after downloading anything.  Really bad stuff actually and they advised me not even to try it as it gives the site owners access to their computers afterwards.   So I do get a small bit of satisfaction in knowing that if anyone actually finds the site and downloads my plans they will have some serious problems......afterwards.

 

Some people say I get too upset over this stuff and its just the way it is and although they say publicly they dont condone it....they are not all that disturbed by it.  But I must tell you....its not a fortune lost but how much money have I lost because of folks like this.....and from those who are willing to use them?  Its very serious for the industry.   It makes me want to stop even trying and hang it up.....whats the point right?  At least that is what runs through my mind from time to time.  I could get a job at Home Depot and come home after a shift and make models just to relax like everyone else.   Working 12 hours a day in the shop seven days a week to make a living as a ship modeler pays about the same thing.....it will be far less stress.

 

Maybe some folks wouldnt take it so lightly or wouldnt buy from them if they were the ones trying to provide for their families by making a living at it.  I do wish they would think about that when they hit the buy button.

[ChrisLBren]

This seriously sucks Chuck - sorry to hear the one of the "good guys" advancing the craft is getting ripped off.

[jbshan]

Chuck, there will always be an 'audience' for a bargain.  I'm sure everybody knows the jerk who always has managed to buy a stove or a couch or a camera or a model kit that is 'just as good as' the one you bought from a reputable dealer or supplier for a tiny fraction of what you paid.  'Just as good as' doesn't usually include any support, longevity of the product or recognition of the rip off artist they're dealing with.  It's part of what makes that individual tick, a need to be seen as a better deal maker than anybody else.  All you can do is protect your own product as you have done and hope for the best.

[mtdoramike]

No, there will always be a fox in the hen house and thieving rogues running a muck.

 

mike   

[hamilton]

The sad part about not including the laser cut templates is that it takes away the possibility of scratch building the kit - though I completely understand the logic. I'm building Syren right now, and one of the laser cut bulkheads (#4) had some gaps in the wood on the bulkhead extension, so I had to cut a new one - using the template - though I guess the part itself would have served.

 

My wife runs a design business and she has had no end of problems with both foreign manufacturers AND European and American companies ripping off her designs - I have to say that in our experience this is not a phenomenon exclusive to Russia and China - it is in the very nature of Internet-based (or internet-facilitated) businesses. I have another friend who discovered that a song of his was being used in a Samsung commercial in S. Korea - without his permission. The payout he got allowed him to renovate his kitchen, but music publishing rights are pretty clear cut and enforceable.

 

My wife, however, has been burned by some recognisable US, Swedish, Australian and UK companies as well.....her and her partner have had to become very savvy about licensing and copyright on the designs and on how they are marketed online - though access to the images themselves cannot prevent copycats from just biting their style. They modify one small aspect (like the layout of a set of graphic elements or the colour of an image) and call it "unique". The "creative" in "creative economy" is very widely interpreted, it seems.....and is even a possibility for those for whom "creativity" is just novel ways of thieving other people's labour....

hamilton

[thibaultron]

In the model railroad world, there is a standard, open source, program, universally used in programming the digital locomotive controllers, of all brands. Some SOB programmer copied the code, changed a couple areas, and copyrighted the whole thing under his name, then sued the open source group for infringment!!

 

it took a couple years and a lot of bucks, to get it overturned.

[thibaultron]

The only solution I personally have been able to do to fight this, is to specify "North America" only on my Ebay searches. Doesn't solve much of anything, but at least blocks them from one customer.

[Kishmul]

I am in a series of discussions and correspondence with a recently retired lawyer who specialised in such matters.

She is forthright in drawing the distinction between copyright, patent and intellectual property rights.

She also accepts that advances in technology make it hard for the law makers to keep up.

Straightforward copying of another's plans is an obvious infringement of copyright but, whilst still offensive, using the same plans to produce  3D prints of (say) a set of cannon it would be hard to prove that an infringement of intellectual property rights had taken place.

I am happy that this forum takes a hard line on such matters, but worry that there is a grey area in law and practice that is growing greater at quite some speed.

[jbshan]

Once an artist puts his/her own spin on an image, it can be hard to get restitution as the new image becomes their work, no matter how much the original artist may resent it.  See Andy Warhol and his soup cans, etc.

[Kishmul]

Indeed, the NMM does not own the copyright to original 17th century plans (though they might be covered by Crown Copyright) but they do own the copyright to the photographs or scans that they have made from them.

[Mike Y]

Chuck, this is such a shame! I truly feel sorry for what happened with your designs.

Quite some russians are stuck in the anti-american soviet mindset, where screwing up a westerner is not a problem, maybe even a good thing. Just give it 25-35 years, the problem will disappear naturally.. Not sure if it was an optimistic statement or not