HMS Victory by ca.shipwright - Panart Art 738 - 1:78

[clearway]

You might find when another colour is added the red will become richer. I painted my cannons in the end after suffering the brass verses paint dilema myself.

 

 keith

[ca.shipwright]

Thanks Keith.

You can see how nice the brass with the red border and dark interior run out a little look. I don't think I can do any better by painting  the canon. Maybe add the red barrel plug to dress it up a bit.

 

Decisions, decisions

 

Regards

[ca.shipwright]

6/9

Milled 80 strips on boxwood and stained a bunch with the India Ink- 2 coats and after an overnight drying 1 coat of wipe on poly. These look very good. The black is dead flat very dense black.

Started on the planking. Doing the mixed plank construction that Bob uses. It does help to mark the waste side. This keeps you from running it through the saw on the wrong side. Did this twice before I woke up.

The pictures show the first planks installed. A challenge is getting the 1/32” border correct on the gun ports. Hopefully they will improve. I only have 90 chances to get one right.

The black planks on the hull look outstanding. What a relief.

A couple of observations:

1. No matter how hard you try, you ship is not going to come out with the same dimensions as whatever instructional base you are using. You are going to have to make some adjustments in sizes, locations, and sometimes even methods.

2. No matter how hard you try, your ship’s port and starboard hull sides will not be exactly the same. Get over it. Work with what you have and enjoy the build.

 

[ca.shipwright]

Continuing with the starboard planking. Started cutting the anchor stock pieces and got on a roll. I built the box in the first photo that raises the work piece and my hands to almost eye level. What a difference this makes with fatigue- almost none. Accuracy is much better also.

 

After completing the lower light section, I decided to put the entire line of anchor stock on at one time and fill in the top pieces of anchor stock. Some will be split planks. Looks easy in the practicum, the explanation is very clear. I hope my skills will suffice.

 

As an observation: As I work from stern forward, my work looks better. Do something often enough and sure enough you get better.

[clearway]

they do say practice makes perfect- the black looks good

[ca.shipwright]

7/1

On to Chapter 6. The honeymoon is over. This is as serious modeling as you can get- it’s just short of scratch building. I read it, read it again, and read it again, and, still I did things wrong. It sometimes seems like this is one big senior moment.

 

I installed the first partial anchor stock piece in the second row of anchor stock upside down and lost the sheer of the planks. I didn’t show up until much later. The optics of the sheer of the plank verses the straight run of the stripes gets very confusing to the eye. You really have to focus on one and when you get that in your head you can then look at the other and compare. I had to rip out a good portion of the stern planking to fix this. And, there is still some sag at the stern. I’m going to have to live with this.

 

The black stripe is 12mm in width and it carries all the way through. The boxwood is 9/16ths and also carries through all the way through. I consider this a moral victory (no pun intended). I got one thing correct. There appears to be a little too much sheer aft of the entry way. I don’t know why because the gallery drawing is spot on. I’ll live with this also. It looks like there is going to a lot of “live withs” on the starboard side. It’s only going to be important at the stem where the stripes and wales join and at the stern to make sure the stern galleries align properly.

 

I have another reason besides the one that Bob gave for working on one side the hull at a time. You learn from your mistakes. And, doing the second side after practicing on the first side will be a huge benefit. Of course, the first side goes against the wall. Keeping notes of the potential pitfalls will be a help when I turn around to the port side.

 

On the middle gun deck, between the 2nd and 3rd gun port from the stern, there is piece of black anchor stock that will be carved out and replaced with boxwood to get rid of the black hump.

 

I found that working at eye level really helps. That little box is perfect. I use an Ex-acto fine tooth saw the start the cuts for the gun port openings and then pair back to this cut from the middle with the work piece on the little box. I found that this eliminates breaking the part at the narrow place when you do this freehand. I place the work piece of the left edge (I'm left handed) with the mark up against the edge. I hold the piece close to the edge pressing down tightly. The box is up against the front of the bench turned so the saw is clear of the bench. I draw the saw DOWN to make the cut only as deep as the frame needs to be. Drawing down uses gravity to move the saw, while pushing up will break the piece.

 

One resolution is to improve my cutting of the filler pieces between the gun ports. I have modified my technique. Now, I cut all the pieces for the gap, gang them, then sand them to length using the Byrnes disc sander. This keeps them square, and, with a little care, just sneak up of the correct length. This gives a very nice straight line.

 

 

[ca.shipwright]

Starboard side planking completed

 

The starboard hull planking is finished except for the bow area. There were lots of challenges in planking the Victory’s hull. The first challenge is that the optics of the sheer of the planking colliding with the straight, parallel lines of the stripes gets very confusing. Even with the hull lined out and light stripes colored, it takes a huge amount of concentration to get what you are trying to accomplish. Am I doing a sheer plank or a split plank for the stripe, or both?

Ebonizing the boxwood with India Ink to simulate the ebony worked better than I hoped. The India Ink and wipe on poly were put on the strips that I milled after the milling and before installation. It does pay to put a dab of the ink on the end of the cut plank before you glue it.

First lesson:

The sheer of the ship has to flatten out as you approach amidship. No matter how you try, the planking wants to angle to level rather than curve into the bend. Not to worry; it all works out in the end.

Second lesson:

My doing the 1/32” lip on  the gun port leaves a lot to be desired. They vary too much and most are too wide. This is due to variation of the between ports strips being not exactly even. Trying to shave them down to make the 3 or 4 planks once they are glued is messy and not very effective. I have a solution for the port side. I will edge glue these planks and then trim them using either the True Sander or the Byrnes disc sander to get the exact length. Should give me a nice straight edge and my sought after 1/32” lip.

Third lesson:

My use of the red Sharpie did not work well. It smeared when rubbed with the Wipe-on-Poly and looks terrible. I tried to redo the lips and inside of the port with bulworks red paint. This is another task that in next to impossible. I am going to have to live with this on the starboard side. I am going to sand off the Sharpe red on the port side and totally reline out the hull. Repaint with the bulworks red paint and go from there.

Fourth Lesson:

A model has two sides to the hull. The first side you work on and finish is the practice side. You then take the lessons you learned and the skills you have developed with you to the other side. This side of the hull will come out great. This is the side which will be displayed. The practice side will wind up against the wall never to be seen again. This is the proof of the truism that Bob Hunt says not to go plank by plank on both sides. I can see it now. The reason is so simple. Not only are the sides not exact mirror images, you will make the same mistake twice.

The bow area is going to have some special requirements. Among them is a slight upward sweep of the stripes at the bow.  The 1/16” strips can’t be bent. They will be laminated out of 2 1/32” strips, one glued on top of another.  The anchor stock wales will have to custom fit because of the upward sweep. I will make a paper pattern to get the proper shape. They too will be laminated.

As I looked at the finished starboard hull, I can really see how my work improved as you go forward. Repetition is the ultimate skill builder. And, the Victory has a lot of repetition. Overall, I am quite pleased how this side came out. After a short time out to reorganize and clean up the shop, it’s off to the port side.

I am pleased to say the the black and white stripes are all done on width wise. In this last photo there appears to be some camera paralax toward the front of the ship. The stripes are even all the way down.

 

One another note. I am glad that I can accurately mill my own wood courtesy of Mr. Byrnes' fantastic machines. If I had to by strip lumber, this kit would cost a fortune to build.

 

Thanks for looking in. Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

Regards

 

 

 

 

Word 2010.lnk

[clearway]

coming along nicely michael- i use india ink for dying my rigging thread and know how messy it can be! I think the red looks o.k. but photographs can alter colouring/ perception.

 

Keith

[maaaslo]

You are going to sand her, are you... right?

[ca.shipwright]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by ca.shipwright
Formatting

[ca.shipwright]

OK

How do we remove the formatting in a copy and paste post.

 

Thanks

[6ohiocav]

Mike

Wow. I have been away for a while, and am just catching up on your build. My hat is off to you my friend for your incredible perseverance. The challenges that you have overcome would sink most of us.

 

I love your India dyed wales and commend your courage for cutting them in those authentic triangular shapes. This truly could be classified as a scratch build for all of the milling you have done.

 

I am going to watch more closely going forward.  I have a Mamoli Victory on the shelf staring at me for when I finally knock out the Niagara.

 

 

 

[ca.shipwright]

Darrell, I bought the Niagara after seeing one at the NRG show on the Queen Mary an eon ago. I thought it was one beautifu ship But, having visited Victory and examined her from stem to stern a over 2 days, she went the head of the way. I have since sold Niagara. A man can rig just so many cannon. And the Victory has 104.

Every model ship builder should build one first rate ship model. Thanks for dropping in and the kind words.

Edited August 4, 2017 by ca.shipwright

[ca.shipwright]

The starboard hull planking is finished except for the bow area. There were lots of challenges in planking the Victory’s hull. The first challenge is that the optics of the sheer of the planking colliding with the straight, parallel lines of the stripes gets very confusing. Even with the hull lined out and light stripes colored, it takes a huge amount of concentration to get what you are trying to accomplish. Am I doing a sheer plank or a split plank for the stripe, or both?

Ebonizing the boxwood with India Ink to simulate the ebony worked better than I hoped. The India Ink and wipe on poly were put on the strips that I milled after the milling and before installation. It does pay to put a dab of the ink on the end of the cut plank before you glue it.

 

First lesson: The sheer of the ship has to flatten out as you approach midship. No matter how you try, the planking wants to angle to level rather than curve into the bend. Not to worry; it all works out in the end.

 

Second lesson: My doing the 1/32” lip on the gun port leaves a lot to be desired. They vary too much and most are too wide. This is due to variation of the between ports strips being not exactly even. Trying to shave them down to make the 3 or 4 planks once they are glued is messy and not very effective. I have a solution for the port side. I will edge glue these planks and then trim them using either the True Sander or the Byrnes disc sander to get the exact length. Should give me a nice straight edge and my sought after 1/32” lip.

 

Third lesson: My use of the red Sharpie did not work well. It smeared when rubbed with the Wipe-on-Poly and looks terrible. I tried to redo the lips and inside of the port with bulworks red paint. This is another task that in next to impossible. I am going to have to live with this on the starboard side. I am going to sand off the Sharpe red on the port side and totally reline out the hull. Repaint with the bulworks red paint and go from there.

 

Fourth Lesson: A model has two sides to the hull. The first side you work on and finish is the practice side. You then take the lessons you learned and the skills you have developed with you to the other side. This side of the hull will come out great. This is the side which will be displayed. The practice side will wind up against the wall never to be seen again. This is the proof of the truism that Bob Hunt says not to go plank by plank on both sides. I can see it now. The reason is so simple. Not only are the sides not exact mirror images, you will make the same mistake twice.

 

The bow area is going to have some special requirements. Among them is a slight upward sweep of the stripes at the bow. The 1/16” strips can’t be bent. They will be laminated out of 2 1/32” strips, one glued on top of another. The anchor stock wales will have to custom fit because of the upward sweep. I will make a paper pattern to get the proper shape. They too will be laminated.

 

I am pleased to say the the black and white stripes are all dead-on width wise. In this last photo there appears to be some camera paralax toward the front of the ship. The stripes are even all the way down.

 

One another note. I am glad that I can accurately mill my own wood courtesy of Mr. Byrnes' fantastic machines. If I had to by strip lumber, this kit would cost a fortune to build.

 

On to planking the lower hull. This should go much faster. I am not looking forward to planking the bluff bow down the road. Just putting one foot in front of the other

 

Thanks for looking in. Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

 

Regards

[ca.shipwright]

This is a repost of an earlier unformated post. The photos remain above. Sorry for hiccups.

 

Port Side Planking Finished

12 views2 comments

Edited: 2 days ago

 

Finished the port side planking today. I must say it came out much better than the starboard side. The port holes are framed more evenly. I got closer to the 1/32 lip on the gun ports. I used the NWSL chopper that I had forgotten about for cutting. What a difference over freehand.

 

First the stripes:

The width of the black and tan stripes are dead on. 12 mm on the black and 9/16 inch for the tan. This carries through for the entire run. The runs are very smooth except at the stern on the port side where there is a little dip. Where I run into trouble is that my hull seems to have more sheer then maybe it should.. I have measured from several different reference points and can't seem to locate and differences.

The India ink worked wonderfully. There are several things that you need to know about ebonizing with this ink. First , use only Archieval grade which will not fade.

 

Second, if it gets on anything, it is a scissors' stain.

 

Third, since the ink is only on the surface of the wood, it is rather easy to scrape or sand it off. I stained the different strips before glueing with 2 coats of the ink. I then put a protective coat of Wipe-on-Poly. I glued the black lower stripe and the lowest tan strip. I then sanded the tan stripe before putting the next black stripe on. More Wipe-on-Poly. This really brought the tan color out on the boxwood. Continued black, tan, black, tan up to the rails. A final touch-up with the ink and a little more poly and that is that. I came out with a 1 -2 mm asymmetry starboard to port- the tan stripe a little low or the black stripe a little high. I'll live with it.

The most difficult item was the anchor stock wales. Amidship, they lay nice and interlock beautifully. It does get very dicey with the split planks and the slight curve of the sheer as you move forward or aft.

 

I gave myself a C for the starboard side and a B for the port side. We are our own worst critics.

 

A couple of photos are attached

 

Starboard Side

For some reason, there seems to be a camera issue with the bow having a wave that you don't see in the side view.

 

 

On to planking the lower hull. This should go much faster. I am not looking forward to planking the bluff bow down the road. Just putting one foot in front of the other.

Regards to all

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by ca.shipwright

[ca.shipwright]

Another Decision

 

 

Time for another decision. As I plank the rest of the hull with the under layer, I have to decide whether or not to install the dummy canons before I close up the hull.

Since I plan to have the canons run out as shown in one of my earlier pictures of the gun ports, the canon do not go all the way in to their shoulders- they only go partially into the hole in the rear of the gun port.

 

I am thinking of using 5 minue epoxy. Taking the canon and puddling some epoxy on the shaft behind the barrel, placing the canon in the hole of the gun port, ( the holes I drilled are slightly under-sized for the canon end of the mounting pin to get them to be run out) stand the ship on its side so that the canon is facing up, and letting the epoxy flow down to the rear piece of the gun port and wait for it to set up. This will also give me enough time to adjust the barrels for evenness. I am toying with the idea of making a plug slightly smaller the the gunport opening with a hole the diameter of the canon to slip over the canon to hold it in place while the expoxy hardens. If this looks like it will work, I can go to 30 minute epoxy and jiggle to my heart's content. I am afraid that if I use CA, it will set up to fast to adjust the canon.

 

Comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Edited August 5, 2017 by ca.shipwright

[DocBlake]

5 minute epoxy is the best thing since sliced bread!  I use it ALL the time!  Unless you have a very long tedious assembly to do, it's enough time to glue most things.  Don't buy the stuff in the tin tubes or syrynges:  the tubes crack and leak, and the syrynges are too difficult to measure the 1:1 mix you need accurately.  I pick up a set with a separate bottle for hardener and resin (4.5 oz. each!) for $10 at Jo Ann's or Hobby Lobby.  Should last years.

Edited August 6, 2017 by DocBlake

[clearway]

i agree with dave- 5 minute epoxy will be best- you can guarantee if using long drying something will move when you leave it!

 

Keith

[ca.shipwright]

I installed all of the middle and lower gun deck dummy canon. This was a lot easier than I thought it would be. The CA worked perfectly. The alignment came out very nice. She is starting to look like a Victory. When I have a large run of the same parts, I always make many extra- at least 10%. You will break some, loose some, and some just come out wrong. It’s nice to have the extra. The photos show a canon in one of the extra gun port frames to check what the alignment will be and a box of “extras”.

 

I completed the starboard forequarter under planking. I used this as a practice exercise to test my planking skills. I laid some using the proportional method, some splining, some eyeballing it and even jammed one or two into place. It doesn’t seem like there are the dips  between the frames that usually appear here. After filling and sanding we will see. Overall, a lot less stressful then the upper hull.

[DocBlake]

Great progress.  She's coming along quickly!

[ca.shipwright]

Thanks Dave and Keith

I had some bottled epoxy that I couldn't remember when I bought it. I was afraid to use it. So, I gave the CA a try. It did the job rather well. I put some in front of the rear panel of the gun port on the canon peg and some more behind the panel as well. They are in there tight. Now all we have to do is not rip off the rear panel by hooking a canon barrel.

 

Regards

[ca.shipwright]

I completed the first layer of planking in all four quadrants. Rough sanded the planning to knock off any high spots. Filled some gaps left from some overzealous trimming of a few planks with Wellbond and sanding dust.

 

I then filled the resulting low spots between the bulkheads carpenters wood filler. I used a playing card as a screed since it was wide enough to span the bulkhead, much like you do with hanging drywall. This worked really well because the card is flexible.

 

Now, we wait for the wood filler to harden, give it a final sanding or, redo if it is not right and then another sanding.

 

[6ohiocav]

Good steady progress Mike. Looking great.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by 6ohiocav

[ca.shipwright]

10/4/2017

 

Finally completed the planking of the hull. Completed the lower wale anchor stocking. Installed the diminishing plank and blended the plank into the hull. Planked the stern area, bending the planks into the wing transom and stern post. Blended these planks into the hull as well. Ebonized the hull for an inch or so below the waterline using the India ink. Everything got another coat of wipe on poly. Did whatever ebonizing touch-up which was required.

Finally completed the planking of the hull. Completed the lower wale anchor stocking. Installed the diminishing plank and blended the plank into the hull. Planked the stern area, bending the planks into the wing transom and stern post. Blended these planks into the hull as well. Ebonized the hull for an inch or so below the waterline using the India ink. Everything got another coat of wipe on poly. Did whatever ebonizing touch-up which was required.

 

4 of the cannon have become detached. 2 of them have come out of the backing piece. They will glue back in easily. The other 2 came out attached to the backing piece. Luckily, I was able to get these out through the stern. These will not be able to be reinstalled ini the original manner. I am going to make a plug sized to the gun port, glue the cannon to the plug and glue the whole thing into the gun port. This should be OK since the gun port lid will hide most of the repair

 

Now it’s time to open the copper plates. I have been told that the Mantua kit is short a good amount of plates. I tried to make some plates using ¼ inch sticky backed copper tape using a ponce wheel. These don’t look anywhere as good as the Mantua plates. The alternative is to make a stamping jig that will stamp the nail head pattern and either cut the individual plates off the strip, or, lay strips of stamped plates. They also come out a little larger than the Mantua plate which is 6 x 15 mm ( a little short of the ¼ inch width). The Mantua plate also has the nail heads embossed on all 4 sides. This means you install them by butting them up against each other without overlapping. I tried this with a test set and it really works very easily using CA and just sliding them into place. We will see what we will see.

[ca.shipwright]

[clearway]

wb michael- ahh the joys of coppering

 

Keith

[ca.shipwright]

11/28/2017

 

Just a short update on the coppering. This task is definitely the never ending story. I try to get three rows of the plates installed each time I work on the ship. The constant squeezing of the tweezers in one hand and the glue bottle in the other leads to some serious hand aching – like a repetitive motion injury. Three rows is just about all I can handle at one time.

I try to break the work session into several tasks. Planking the upper gun deck is one of the these tasks. Making the hatch comings another. I also mill the wood that I will need in future chapters. Holly for deck planking and Swiss pear fir the hatch comings.

I am using Temaya metallic copper paint to fill in some of the gaps where the plates don't align well. Not a real good fix, but, better than seeing the raw hull, light or black, showing through.

 

Here are some photos of the coppering.

[ronald305]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 2:04 PM, ca.shipwright said:

Greetings,
Another update. I completed the port side of the main deck gun ports. I thought they came out rather well. Slimming down the interfering bulkheads and cutting one off is a real pain. I can't wait to see how much trouble this is going to be on the quarterdeck and middle and lower gun decks.

I had my first service problem with my Byrnes saw in it's 15 +/_ years service. The switch went out. First, the polarity reversed and I continued to use it even though it wasn't safety smart. Then it died. 30 minutes to buy it and 15 minutes to install the replacement switch. And, away we mill.
I need to get a start milling the .045 in planking. There's a lot to do.

A little wood filler in the gaps and a good sanding should take care of most of the defects.  Most everything will be covered the second planking. The rest of the markings have been added to the upper sills.

It is worth noting; maybe: At first glace the gun ports on the three decks appear to be symmetrical. Not so. I was looking at the Corel template and they had some of them offset. I thought it was poor manufacturing. Not so again. I took a look in AOS and sure enough there are offsets between the decks.

 

Next up completing the gun decks and quarterdeck gun ports p/s. This is going to take some time. Next

update might be a while.

 

Regards to all

    where are the photos ? 

[ronald305]

 great job on the Victory Mike finally found someone who is  build this kit rather they use Bob practicum or not 

I always wanted to see how it was done looking forward to see it finished 

                                         Ronald 

[jazzyrjw@gmail.com]

Jazzyrjw

Billing Nordkap

Panart Mantua High Spec HMS Victory 1:78

 

Early on I noticed that you only had the slot for the main mast in the main keel. The other two masts needed a slot depth horizontally and virtically in line with the main mast. It would be very difficult to get the angles entirely right after the decks were completed. I think you are doing a fantastic job. I have read all your posts and am staggered how much you have achieved so far.  I am leaving all the canons brass but painting vermilion on the centre front of the barrel. I will be coppering the hull like you so I am looking forward to doing it later. Currently, I am adding LED lighting to the officers cabins and later, up top of the main mast.

 

I will be painting the finished ship with the historic restoration teams new colour scheme that was uncovered during gargantuan project of restoring the ship at Portsmouth. I went to see it and was amazed by the inticate paint work done. They have changed the ships colours to reflect the true colours found in the lowest paint levels carbon dated to the battle of Trafalgar Have a look at these pictures taken by the photographer commissioned by the Restoration Team.       https://www.flickr.com/photos/150573193@N04/page7