Bismarck by Channell - Trumpeter - 1/200 - PLASTIC

[CDW]

On 10/4/2018 at 5:52 PM, channell said:

 

 

 

Something funky about the plastic Trumpeter uses for these 1/200 kits... they just don't like to take paint straight out of the box.  I try to rough up the plastic a little with 4-600 grit sandpaper and/or fine steel wool, then hit it with rattlecan Tamiya primer (airbrush primer for smaller bits)... after that I have no problems getting airbrushed acrylics to behave well. Of course I can't help cutting up and rebuilding the damn things so A LOT of surface prep is generally par for the course on my builds. 

I have been battling that "funky" Trumpeter plastic with my current build. Tamiya rattle can primer seems to go on without problems, but there are lots of problems with acrylics, even after the Tamiya primer has been applied. One would think perhaps the cause is unwashed plastic and residual mold release agent, but that's not it. I scrub these plastic parts down very well with a mild detergent before ever applying any paint. There is (I think) some odd additive in the plastic itself that's causing the problem. Weird and frustrating.

[channell]

2 hours ago, CDW said:

I have been battling that "funky" Trumpeter plastic with my current build. Tamiya rattle can primer seems to go on without problems, but there are lots of problems with acrylics, even after the Tamiya primer has been applied. One would think perhaps the cause is unwashed plastic and residual mold release agent, but that's not it. I scrub these plastic parts down very well with a mild detergent before ever applying any paint. There is (I think) some odd additive in the plastic itself that's causing the problem. Weird and frustrating.

 

Mikasa has the paint adhesion problem too? It's not Trumpeter brand name but it seems pretty obvious that it's a Trumpeter product nevertheless by how it's packaged so I guess that makes sense. 

 

My solution has been to hit Trumpy plastic with fine grit sandpaper or steel wool to roughen the surface slightly on all but the very small parts, then prime/paint. It works well for me, considering I'm usually modding parts and going PE happy anyway. I don't wash my plastic either. 

 

Hopefully Trumpeter's plastic recipe doesn't also include some of that infamous Chinese product toxicity; I've probably breathed in a little more of their plastic dust than is healthy for me. 

[cog]

5 hours ago, channell said:

.. again I'm reminded that 1/200 scale is actually pretty dang small in the grand scheme of things! 

u mean it's HUGHE in the scheme of things. When I look at the 1/350 tidbits most of us manage you are getting a stroll in the park, mate ... Not an easy one but still

 

I've had most primers now, but presently I stick to Tamiya rattlecan. I have to try out the Vallejo rattle cans. I've got one ready, but not yet the ship to try it on

Edited October 25, 2018 by cog

[popeye the sailor]

the deconstruction would have been worse,  if you found out much later.   PE looks pretty darn good   

[channell]

1 hour ago, cog said:

u mean it's HUGHE in the scheme of things. When I look at the 1/350 tidbits most of us manage you are getting a stroll in the park, mate ... Not an easy one but still

 

I've had most primers now, but presently I stick to Tamiya rattlecan. I have to try out the Vallejo rattle cans. I've got one ready, but not yet the ship to try it on

No way, Cog... if I was doing Bissy in 1/350 with Pontos PE I'd be done with the thing already...  for example, on the part of the ship where I'm working now you get some pretty nice brass bulkheads with most all the details already etched  to just slap on (http://pontosmodel.com/html/35022f1.html)... add the vents and call it a day. 

 

Thus far, the 1/200 advanced set has been nuttier than a squirrel turd... even Pontos themselves didn't finish it in real-life and take photos for the instructions (like usual) and only included an illustrated diagram.  Still trying to understand why folks still think bigger= easier... that hasn't been my experience at all! Bigger just means large quantities of tiny stuff that goes on top of the bigger stuff. 

 

Tamiya rattlecan primer is my favorite too... It's soooo overpriced though.. paying 10-11 bucks for a tiny can rustles my jimmies.

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by channell

[Richmond]

Great workmanship in regards the PE

[cog]

Not used to have your leg stretched ... I see ...

 

Hope you don't mind me sticking to the easier 1/350 stuff ... still need to finish some twentyeight tripple AAs for Musashi of 14pcs each ...those give me a bloody headache

 

Be glad, the price inh the US is better than on this side of the pond ($14 - $16)

[channell]

41 minutes ago, cog said:

Not used to have your leg stretched ... I see ...

 

Hope you don't mind me sticking to the easier 1/350 stuff ... still need to finish some twentyeight tripple AAs for Musashi of 14pcs each ...those give me a bloody headache

 

Be glad, the price inh the US is better than on this side of the pond ($14 - $16)

Nope... box that Mushi-mushi up and get you a real man's warship in the Lord's scale. A 1/200 Yamato class will do nicely, gonna have to up the AAA's part count to 30 or so apiece though. 

[cog]

For the time being ... I stick to the easy scale, so I can bully you around with your detailed, detail sets  Besides ... you seem to have forgotten that everything should be bigger in the US  If some European bloke suddenly starts to build large scale models ... that would be the beginning of the end of that reality ...

 

Have you yet decided on making a submerged  version of bissy, or still ripping parts off, adding some other detailed detail in some obscure spot, based on her tour of duty

[RGL]

The thing I love about the Tamiya rattle can primer is the way it sticks to PE, and I’m yet to find any primer through an airbrush as good. 

 

Pontos is an adventure in sanity at times in regards to instructions. It’s like they do section by section but never reason how to put it all together 

[Canute]

I think the fact that it's lacquer based helps with the sticking so well.

[Richmond]

I really don't think the 1/200s are any easier to build than the 1/350s, as you go bigger the more detailed the model will be especially in terms of aftermarket.

 

The greater realism provided with the 1/200 and the  builders modifications provide for a very interesting log. 

 

I look forward to seeing further great work.

 

Richmond

[channell]

9 hours ago, cog said:

For the time being ... I stick to the easy scale, so I can bully you around with your detailed, detail sets  Besides ... you seem to have forgotten that everything should be bigger in the US  If some European bloke suddenly starts to build large scale models ... that would be the beginning of the end of that reality ...

 

Have you yet decided on making a submerged  version of bissy, or still ripping parts off, adding some other detailed detail in some obscure spot, based on her tour of duty

My 1/100 Bismarck semi-kit is my 'Murica-sized future build, but I'm saving that one for retirement.  

 

Still, I've been around the world (including living a year in Amazonian Bolivia) and learned long ago that the world is a bigger place than the USA. I would probably disappoint you with my sad lack of American stereotypical character traits and I don't even know any good wooden shoe jokes to fight back with you so we're probably better off being friends than adversaries. 

 

If I ever do a 1/200 wreck diorama, it would be with the wreckage of my first Bismarck and it's just an idea, not a real plan. I think it would be really cool but I don't know if I'll ever actually do it. 

 

This one is gonna be as close as I can manage to Bismarck as she appeared at the end of 1940.  I'm doing it because EVERYBODY builds Bissy in 1941, either in Baltic stripes or as-sunk and I want to do something different. Besides, I've never seen a model of Bismarck in her earlier guise and that's when she looked the best (in my opinion). The film of Bismarck in Kiel canal is especially inspiring to me, though I'm gonna have 2 of her three radar turrets installed (as was the case in real-life in late fall-early winter 1940). There is no way I'll get every last possible detail exactly right but I'll let you guys be the judge on whether I succeeded or not sometime next year when she's done. 

 

One more thing for everyone... Bismarck is a SHE. ALL SHIPS ARE SHE'S! I'll be damned if I let some 'effing Nazis turn hundreds of years of naval tradition on it's head and call Bissy a "he".  Sorry, that's one of my Bismarck hot-buttons so I'll get it off my chest now... 

Edited October 26, 2018 by channell

[CDW]

8 hours ago, RGL said:

The thing I love about the Tamiya rattle can primer is the way it sticks to PE, and I’m yet to find any primer through an airbrush as good. 

 

Pontos is an adventure in sanity at times in regards to instructions. It’s like they do section by section but never reason how to put it all together 

Another word of advice to anyone building a model with the Pontos update sets, whether it be the Bismarck or any other model, try to pay close attention early on to all the photo etch parts on the frets. I have learned that the Pontos photo etch sets contain a lot of useful parts that are not mentioned in any way on the instruction sheets. I have learned this only after I searched out and purchased other aftermarket parts, then once I used all the instruction-identified Pontos photo etch parts, discovered they were included but not mentioned in the instructions.

The most recent example of this for me was when I had to find and buy tie down points for my rigging, and then learned the Pontos photo etch sheets actually included them, but they were not mentioned on the instructions. There are other relevant parts included that are unidentified as well.  

[CDW]

9 hours ago, RGL said:

The thing I love about the Tamiya rattle can primer is the way it sticks to PE, and I’m yet to find any primer through an airbrush as good. 

I agree with your observation of how well Tamiya rattle can primer sticks to photo etch. It's a nice leveling primer for plastic, too.

What frustrates me with the Tamiya rattle can paint is how frequently the can of paint becomes unusable long before all the paint is used up, due to clogs. I've tried everything I know to do to prevent this, but it happens way too often. Besides being expensive, I often am able to use about half the paint in the can before it clogs up to an extent that I cannot clear the clog, and/or the propellant gas inside the can is expired.

[channell]

Still dressing up Bissy in her shiny gold "jewelry"... 

 

 

 

 

 

Many hours into this part of the project with many, many more hours to go... 

 

[popeye the sailor]

PE crazy!    looks really good       she'll have detail up the wha-zou!

[Richmond]

Such neat application of the PE

[channell]

Thanks guys! 

 

Got the front half of the superstructure all decorated and painted, minus some touch-up, weathering and some other bits like railings and guns that are best done later on:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Starting get places now... only have to do the same on the other half of the superstructure and I can finally cross out step #3 in the instruction booklet. 

[vossy]

Looks really great! Congratulations on your work! Couple of questions if I may?

 

1. What glue do you use to attach the PE parts?

2. How do you actually cut out, pick up, and attach the PE parts?

3. Would/could/can you do an instructional short video or more detailed photo explanation pertaining to points 1 and 2?

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

[Richmond]

PE looked great before the paint job, now it's superb, this build is a fantastic illustration of the benefits of fitting PE to a scale model, those louvres are outstanding.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Richmond

[Old Collingwood]

12 minutes ago, Richmond said:

PE looked great before the paint job, now it's superb, this build is a fantastic illustration of the benefits of fitting PE to a scale model, those louvres are outstanding.

I totally blame this site for showcasing such amazing work from everyone  -  your all to blame in such an amazing  wonderful way.

 

OC.

[cog]

Unfortunately for you, you're part of it now ...

[channell]

On 11/3/2018 at 9:14 PM, vossy said:

Looks really great! Congratulations on your work! Couple of questions if I may?

 

1. What glue do you use to attach the PE parts?

2. How do you actually cut out, pick up, and attach the PE parts?

3. Would/could/can you do an instructional short video or more detailed photo explanation pertaining to points 1 and 2?

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 

I bounce back and forth between PVA (elmer's) and CA (thin, regular, and thick); usually PVA for the very small parts and CA for stuff that needs a little more strength. Afterwards I prime/paint it with an airbrush... on less detailed sections like PE bulkheads I'll prime it with Tamiya rattle-can. 

 

I like to cut PE from the fret with those rectangular single edge "safety razors" because PE messes up blades fairly quickly and they are cheap yet still fairly exact in cutting. I cut the PE on a little square of clear plastic sheet that I buy at the big-box home improvement store. Getting parts on is done with tweezers of various shapes or if I get lazy, a tantric monkish telekinesis chant that I learned in the Himalayas a few years back. 

 

Seriously though, the secret is just using magnification (I use an optivisor), as little glue as you can get away with, doing good, clean prepwork before you start gluing and practice, practice, practice... plus checking and adjusting parts as necessary after you get everything glued on.  It's easy to knock stuff off that's only held by a small amount of PVA but once you get the paint on, it helps "lock" the parts in place so they won't go anywhere unless you butter-finger the finished part. 

 

Sorry, no instructional video; it would suck anyway because I'd have to hold my phone in my mouth while I filmed, half of the video would be of my butt in the air as I searched the carpet for the pieces I drop and there would be A LOT of cussing. 

 

Anyway, I did some more puttering yesterday... more cleanup, finished up the wing bridges and made an attempt at painting "wood" on the PE deck plates around the bridge:

 

 

 

Now I am turning my attention the back half of the main superstructure and getting deep into miniature demolition:

 

Just for kicks, here's more or less what a section of the superstructure looks like OOTB (although I've already began drilling and cutting out vent holes):

 

 

The Pontos advanced set goes a long way towards improving the details of the kit! 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by channell

[semorebutts]

Wow this build is amazing!  And oh my god that deck!

[channell]

2 hours ago, semorebutts said:

Wow this build is amazing!  And oh my god that deck!

Thanks for the positive comment! I really like your Bissy build too, she builds up to a really impressive model once you throw aftermarket stuff at it. 

 

I love the concept of the deck but I wish the execution was better... it's the worst fitting wood deck  I've ever used, has quite a few inaccuracies compared to the Pontos deck and it wasn't cheap either. I hope the high-end aftermarket set guys like Pontos look into printing HQ wood decks instead of laser-cutting them in the future, the idea has merit. 

[channell]

Another weekend, another update! 

 

I'm moving along on the aft-half of the superstructure... got the deck installed and everything just about ready for PE:

 

After scraping off the kit details:

 

 

I skeletonized the AA gun platform extensions with a twist drill and a scalpel; in-progress:

 

 

... and how they look after with the PE grates installed:

 

 

The completed deck:

 

 

Before and after of vent stacks below turret "Caesar":

 

 

 

One of the kit errors is having the aft area skylights as standalone units when they should be attached to the superstructure bulkheads; I modified the skylight trunks, drilled them out and mounted them directly to the bulkheads for a more "true to life" look. I had to add styrene backing so the skylights would sit far enough out to cover the holes in the deck. 

 

 

 

Got some very nice PE to dress up this area too, after priming the plastic with Tamiya rattlecan primer. 

 

And just for giggles and kicks, here's Bissy next to her nemesis, the Mighty 'Ood in the same scale:

 

 

 

The myth of Bismarck being the gigantic juggernaut of death that outclassed every other warship in the world is a bit overblown... Hood was a big girl and I'm sure her crew put to sea to chase down Bismarck with all the confidence in the world. The reality of war however is that sometimes you win big and sometimes #$*! happens.

It's humbling and a bit disturbing to remember (again) that such impressive and indeed beautiful ships were ultimately built to do such bloody, ugly jobs and that so many men died on them doing just that.

 

One reason I love scale modeling... it brings the past alive for people like me who are so far removed from the original events like no photograph or paragraphs in a book can. I hope in my builds that I can do justice to the memory of those who were there and who gave their lives in service of their countries. War is such a terrible thing but I'm sure the dead of both ships would have been pleased to know the Nazis are long gone and virtually everyone alive today has never known a world where Germany and the UK weren't friends and allies. 

 

 

[Old Collingwood]

Very well said  - thoughtful  words  Thank you.

I love your Hood also  cant  wait to see your build log on her also.

 

OC.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Old Collingwood

[lmagna]

There were a number of reasons the "Oood" blew up. Mostly all faults with her design and the tactics used in her last battle rather than the superior nature of the Bismarck. Used properly there is a very good chance that the outcome could have been considerably different. But as you say, luck is a factor as well.

 

Numbers is numbers, but it is a shock to me to see the size discrepancy between the two.  I thought there was only about 40' difference in over all length. It would also be interesting to see the relationship of the Prinz Eugen in the picture as well. She was about 125' shorter than the Bismarck so it makes you wonder why the Hood and POW opened up on the Prinz Eugen mistaking her for the Bismarck.

[Old Collingwood]

22 minutes ago, lmagna said:

There were a number of reasons the "Oood" blew up. Mostly all faults with her design and the tactics used in her last battle rather than the superior nature of the Bismarck. Used properly there is a very good chance that the outcome could have been considerably different. But as you say, luck is a factor as well.

 

Numbers is numbers, but it is a shock to me to see the size discrepancy between the two.  I thought there was only about 40' difference in over all length. It would also be interesting to see the relationship of the Prinz Eugen in the picture as well. She was about 125' shorter than the Bismarck so it makes you wonder why the Hood and POW opened up on the Prinz Eugen mistaking her for the Bismarck.

Wasn't it due to a miss - observation of Bismark  by both the shadowing british cruiser and POW  who strarted to open fire on Prinz Eugen followed by Hood doing the same,   mind you the point to point range at that point was quite long  25 -28 miles,   I believe.

 

OC.