Worldway

Lauck Street Shipyard

35 posts in this topic

I have to tell you about my latest experience.  I know this has been discussed in the past but frankly I'm mad and want to share (vent).

 

I bought all the practicums from the company including the Bluenose.  I sent in a couple of questions on their forum about how the author did the Bluenose build and was basically told to follow what he says and not question his methods.  I was then berated (in my opinion) because of the way I addressed my post and my questioning attitude.  Gosh, I thought that building meant asking questions and learning.  No, according to the owner, it was his way or the highway.  Just because I bought a prep school practicum didn't mean I wanted to build a prep school model.

 

I'm sure a lot of people here know who I'm talking about and will agree with me.

 

For those who don't, and I can attest to this honestly, don't waste your money.  There is so much more talent on this forum although he wouldn't agree.  According to him he has built more models than anyone else.  But it's his way or the highway.

 

Right now I am extremely unimpressed.  And I'm being extremely polite with my words.

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Welcome to the world of Robert Hunt, he is a classic. I too have all his practicums, which I am very disappointed in. His very first one for the AVS was excellent and after that they get progressively worse. He has always been a "my way or the highway" kind of guy and often says some pretty rude things. When I found MSW I stopped posting there and am now exclusively here, I don't need to listen to his childish rants and insults.

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Got to love those fancy websites that lures you in then drop you like a hot potato. So many, this is the #1 reason I love MSW. Oh and Google is pretty awesome to.

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I remember one member here selling his practicum discs and the next thing we have BH here ranting on our forum about taking legal action against the seller for violating the T&Cs of sale. He didn't have a leg to stand on, and was given short shrift.

 

Another time when he launched his forums (again) he copied the whole structure of MSW, verbatim, including the area descriptions. Yet this is the guy who castigates others for wanting to sell the product they legally purchased ;) 

Canute, Worldway, Jack12477 and 4 others like this

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Derek:

I took the time to read some of the threads referenced here. Unfortunately we are going to run "amuck" with some people no matter how hard we try. Some vendors and even individuals seem to have a different view of relationships and how to conduct themselves. In disbelief I have been rebuffed at times even when asking a "help me understand" question or in an e-mail query. So much so that I am quite deliberate in communication when I sense the traits. It doesn't always work. By and large, though, I have found this forum membership and the majority of vendors extremely helpful and supportive. We have a prominent manufacturer/ambassador/moderator among us that is exemplary who sets a high standard for customer satisfaction and if anyone has done business with him, all others are compared against that standard. Others just don't get it, but their customers do!

Joe

 

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I have no idea who this guy is, have never dealt with him and certainly don't want to, but would like to make a suggestion.

 

Ours is a very difficult craft. I have been trying to master it for sixty years with limited success.  Despite people offering praticums, no one has a solution that works for everyone.  For me at least, I prefer to collect ideas from a number of sources and to adapt them to my skills and work habits.

 

In my opinion the best collection of this material is a collection of Nautical Research Journals particularly those published in the 80's and 90's that have a lot of practical content, and particularly multi issue articles for building complete models that don't seem to be published anymore.

 

So, save money and buy the CDs of back issues of Nautical Research Journals.  You'll be amazed how much really useful material you will find.

 

Roger

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Funny you say that Roger, I actually did buy the CD of back issues and have been slowly working my way through them.  There is a ton of great information and research contained within the pages and I am thoroughly enjoying them. And I agree with your statement "Despite people offering practicums, no one has a solution that works for everyone."

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8 hours ago, James H said:

I remember one member here selling his practicum discs and the next thing we have BH here ranting on our forum about taking legal action against the seller for violating the T&Cs of sale. He didn't have a leg to stand on, and was given short shrift.

 

Another time when he launched his forums (again) he copied the whole structure of MSW, verbatim, including the area descriptions. Yet this is the guy who castigates others for wanting to sell the product they legally purchased ;) 

 

Ah.. fun times.  I forgot about the copying of the forum but remembered the other one.  Then there was the rants at DryDockModels about how we modelers weren't buying his kits and "college" CD's and we should because 1) he's a Vietnam Vet,   2) Has PTSD and 3) Was going bankrupt.   That his kits had many errors and same for the CD's was beside the point.  I still get headache when I think about those times and i was just a Moderator.  Probably worse for you as an Admin with his emails, etc.

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Just as a final word, because this topic has been beat to death, I have removed all contact information for Bob and Lauck Street from my computer.  I will no longer have any association with him or his forum.  I plan to use his practicums as best as I can (because I do think they have some merit) but I will also rely on all of you for additional advise.  I'm enjoying this hobby and there is no need for one person to make it unenjoyably. I apologize for bringing this subject back to the forefront but frankly last night I was upset, I needed to get matters off my chest.  Thanks for listening and for your comments. Bye Bob Hunt. {Mike drop}

 

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Don't apologize, Derek. For some of us who have been around this forum (and its predecessors) for a while, topics like this one bring back fond memories. Well, memories, anyways.

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I am going to ask a very stupid question, why would you by the Bluenose from ME and then spend $ 100.00 for the practicum. When all the information you need is on this web site. Hope I don't step on toes with the question.

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2 hours ago, John Allen said:

I am going to ask a very stupid question, why would you by the Bluenose from ME and then spend $ 100.00 for the practicum. When all the information you need is on this web site. Hope I don't step on toes with the question.

Well, as another "Alum" of Lauck Street Shipyard, I would like to echo Roger Pellett's post above: "no one has a solution that works for everyone".

 

In my case, I could find very little about the unusual hull construction techniques use with the Duke William by G.K. Modellbau. His practicum on the model seemed like a good investment at the time.

 

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Valid question John. I realize now I probably wasted my money buying the practicum.  At the time I figured I could use all the help I could get.  In fact, one of the reasons I bought the Bluenose from MS was because I heard the instructions were very good.  And yes, with their instructions and this site I could have made a good go of it.  Like my mom used to say "A fool and his money are soon parted."

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I'm another one who got the practicum for the Bluenose and visited the forum over there.  I never posted there (as I was already active here from my previous build of the Phantom).  I only check the other forum once a month or so, but happened to see the response Derek referred to.  Even though I've seen the outbursts over there, that response took me by surprise - it was pretty rough!

 

I bought the practicum because the Bluenose was only my second build, and it was my first that required hull planking.  My first build was the Phantom, and Chuck's practicum for that was EXCELLENT. In fact, I barely referred to the plans or instructions at all during that build.  At the time I was gearing up for the Bluenose, the idea of doing a much more complicated build (than the Phantom) *without* a practicum seemed daunting.  I liked the idea of having a 'guide', especially for planking and the hoisting machinery.  

 

I'm only about halfway done with the Bluenose (work is on hold for a bit while we remodel our house, which required breaking down my workspace), but I've found I pretty much ignore the practicum now.  It was helpful during planking, and was a good resource for a few assorted details, but there were too many places where shortcuts were taken, or the approach skipped things.  

 

For me, the practicum was a 'safety net' that gave me enough of a comfort level to feel I could tackle the build.  Once I get this second build under my belt, I think I'll be able to try one without a practicum.  Although, I'm probably going to tackle the 18th Century Longboat next, which has a TON of info available.  After that, I've got the Fair American kit sitting on the shelf, which I'd tackle without a practicum.  However, I'm considering jumping into the Syren after the longboat instead, which obviously has another great set of documentation from Chuck (and that documentation is the only reason I'd consider a ship that involved after only a couple years of modeling).

 

I guess my thought is that if a practicum is the thing that makes a ship build accessible to a newbie, it is well worth it.  But whenever possible, stick to Chuck's practicums :).  

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 Like my mom used to say "A fool and his money are soon parted."

Derek,

 

Hey don't beat your self up I can't tell you how many times I played the fool and the money parted sadly I should have known better . Sometimes like a hot frying pan more than once I got burned and touched it a second time to make sure I was burned the first.:o You didn't have any prior knowledge about his business practices that isn't a fool just a mistake. 

 

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Derek and Roger both mentioned back issues of the Nautical Research Journals, contained in our CD sets, as being great sources of information.  We will soon be coming out with a new CD set covering the last 10 years of the Journal - volumes 51-60.

 

In addition to the back issue CD's we also have our Ship Modeler's Shop Notes 2 (SN2) available now from the NRG Store.  We will be releasing the 5th printing of the original Ship Modeler's Shop Notes (SN1) originally published in 1978 very soon and it too will be available from the NRG Store.

 

Each of the Shop Notes books is completely different and SN2 is not revisions or updates of SN1.  SN1 covers shop notes compiled from the Journals published up until 1978 while SN2 covers shop notes compiled from Journal published between 1978 and 2008.

 

We will make announcements when the reprint of Shop Notes 1 and the new Volume 51-60 CD are available.

 

Kurt

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This topic is a repeating theme. Every 6 months or so we have a Bob Hunt smack down. Yes, he can be insufferably smug and abrasive. So, if that offends you, then don't go to the website. Some of his kits were quite nice but the great recession killed his business. Also times have changed since he started writing his practicums. There were few if any kits that a beginner could build using the instructions provided when he started. Now many manufactures provide reasonable instructions written by excellent craftsmen like Chuck Passaro and others. I believe our hobby has moved on from what Bob can provide and we should move on too from the semi-annual BH smack down. Just my opinion.

Respectfully

Jaxboat

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20 hours ago, Jaxboat said:

This topic is a repeating theme. Every 6 months or so we have a Bob Hunt smack down.

 

Jaxboat

I think as long as there are new "Alum" of Lauck Street-- who either don't search all messages in this forum, or are new to the topic and just want to vent; this topic will crop up from time to time.  It is only a "repeating theme" for those who have been here long enough for it to repeat on. 

 

To really prevent it, the admins would have to install some sort of message filter that prevents entering text like "Lauck Street".  :D

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Ahoy Fellow Learners

 

As a newbie back say 4 years ago now,I did not know of MSW or Model Ships for Dummies sites. I purchased the Fair American practicum also. As we all go thru life and it's put falls, this was one of the ones for me.

Certainly not the cheapest or most expensive,but I sure found out that some peoples ego's have no bounds. And modern day " snake oil salesmen" are still around from model wooden ship building to the highest  offices in our land. And they bth did the same thing-selling what was touted  as a great education and just how to do things.At least we all here who bought into the CD's talked about here only spent hundreds of dollars-not tens of thousands.

 

But the feeling of being had is the same. I would not even give these CD's away knowing that they might be resold to another unsuspecting modeler. They were brunned up years ago. The only thing they were good for was to learn that you need to do research on this kind of offer ,and to pass on the knowledge of what he sells and to direct people to sites like this and others that pass on good information not tainted by the world sized ego's of the sellers .

Keith 

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The only "advice" I like give to everyone, who needs a practicum for his project, is to stop for a while a rethink your project.

Why do I need the practicum?. What are the things I am missing? Do I have enough knowledge for my project?

 

If you can answer the last question with YES, start a build log here on MSW. I am really sure that you will get the answers to your other questions from the members here.

If you have to answer the last question with NO or I don't know, don't buy a practicum. Stop the project until you can answer the question with YES.

 

Perhaps it will be then a very good idea if you participate on a group build here on MSW or search a detailed build log for a smaller project and start with this project. Chuck for example has written some very detailed logs which willl help you a lot.

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I was a beginner when I started to build the CONSTITUTION.  I probably should have started a simpler model but I always wanted to build "OLD IRONSIDES".  I started building many years ago and without Bob's practicum I could not have finished it.  I'm very thankful that it was available.  I am going to start the SYREN now mainly because it was on sale and Chuck has great instructions.  Enough Bob bashing.  Just my 2 cents worth.  Lon

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Derek

 

Thanks for bringing this out again.  People who are not familiar with the shenanigans at LSS should have a chance to hear about them.  Based on your post, it sounds like things have continued to degenerate there over the years.  I purchased Bluenose in 2007 (a year before discovering MSW 1.0).  When I would ask a question the response was invariably that the practicum had been written some time ago and that the author couldn't remember why something had been done a certain way.  Not a useful response, but not rude.  Having watched several meltdowns, apologies, and reboots from Mr. Hunt, I feel sorry for him and hope he is able to find some happiness and move forward.

 

I totally feel and empathize with your anger and the need to vent.  It is a sad  commentary on his business acumen and style.

 

Bob

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As far as practici are concerned, I am a complete newbie.  I've seen only a couple of articles in the literature by Fr. Romero, which seemed to be quite involved, but accurate.

Please, those who have built from one, especially one of Bob's, aside from personality clashes, do the expanded instructions work?  Can you buy the kit and practicum and be able to build the model?

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Yes you can build the model using his practicum. My first was the AVS which I used his practicum without using the plans or instructions very much, I am not sure if I could have completed it without his practicum. Currently I am building the Pegasus which I refer to his practicum at times only because I have bought and paid for all of them and feel it would be a total waste not to reference them. His practicums are a good enough guide to build the kit in a short amount of time and with little or no changes or historical detail. As time went on his practicums seemed to deteriorate as he was busy developing his own kits and did not spend the time required to properly complete a model. Many shortcuts were taken and lots of steps missed. The Endeavour practicum was his last, which he completed the hull and deck details. He sold this part of the practicum with the promise of the rigging section to follow, sometime later he announced he was not going to complete it as he did not like rigging anymore. I know this as I also bought the partial Endeavour practicum. 

 When I started this hobby two years ago I did not know of MSW and was lost, so the purchase of a practicum seemed the obvious way for me to learn this great pastime. If I could do it again and did not know about MSW I would probably still buy one but it would only be one not the whole lot of them. I would also stay off of his forum as that is where all the problems start it is as simple as "do not question how I do things, and do not deviate from the practicum" or you will be banned from the site.

Have A Great Day;):)

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