tkay11

Plans for Petrejus book on Brig of War Irene

42 posts in this topic

 I wonder if the Dutch Navy took off her lines after her capture. One of the Steele volumes has plans of a Cruiser brig in it.

 

On a similar note, the Dutch also bought our much beloved 1794 British Frigate Diana, in 1815, following an extensive rebuild. It was under Dutch colors that Diana fought her one great battle against Algiers alongside the British bombarding squadron under Lord Exmouth in 1816. There is rumored to be a set of 1815 plans of the Diana in Dutch archives.

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I'm pretty sure the more knowledgeable will answer. Petrejus states

 

"The draught on which our model is based was made in Holland, but, unfortunately, it is not dated. It may have been made shortly after the Dutch took possession of the ship -- which is not very likely -- it may also have been done in 1816, when the navy yard at Hellevoetsluis was ordered to make certain moulds of her construction, or even in 1822, when, having served her time, she was laid up, awaiting the ship-breaker's maul."

 

He goes on to detail the lack of much other material for the Irene. She was, of course, previously the British ship Grasshopper, which according to Petrejus had a different figurehead, "a forecastle reaching to the foremast but having timberheads instead of a forecastle rail, and with no poop deck". He then goes on to describe the various draughts of the English ships.

 

Tony

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Just as another thought, and in case you're thinking about other ships in the Cruizer class, there's an excellent discussion thread about them on this site if you have not already seen it, as well as pointers to other builds.

 

Tony

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I have the English language edition

published by N>V>Uitgeversmaatschappij  "De Esch" - Hengelo-Holland

Copyright 1970

Foreword by Howard I. Chapelle

purchased in 1972

It has 2 sheets of plans that are reproduced on pp. 260 & 261

There is no scale on the plans, but 1:50 looks appropriate.

 

There is no pocket in the back cover, the plans are loose but joined by

a paper band around the middle.

 

The book has some similarities to Wolfram zu Mondfeld Historische Schiffsmodelle

in that it is a hermit crab-like collection of drawings from then out of print primary

works in public domain, It is mostly late 18th to mid 19th c.  It is also similar to

an Anatomy of the Ship edition as regards details for Irene.

It is more "what to do" than "how to do it".

 

The NMM should have plans for the class.

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What are the plans of the english edition like? 

Lines and side/deck views, or also rigging?

 

Petrejus did write his book for modelbuilders, so he is going into building the hull in some detail (bread and butter technique). The book is indeed illustrated with a lot of reproductions from primary sources. Not to forget: in the early fifties, he had acces to these sources, the usual modelbuilder had not. So it was rather usefull in those days. Sometimes we tend to forget how easy accesible information is, nowadays.

 

Jan

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What is on pp. 260 & 261 is a complete reduced scale reproduction of the full size plans.

No spar or rigging data on the plans.  That is in the text.  Tables with the dimensions

and written rigging leads are at the back.

No criticism was intended over the inclusion of illustrations from older

texts.  Information was difficult to come by, even the titles of the books

from the 17th, 18th and 19th C. to look for was obscure information,

there was much less chance of actual access to the content.

Later, before the Wharton School philosophy of raw greed for

maximum profit at the expense of everything else became the

guiding force of business, there was a golden age of

the publishing of both text reproductions and original works.

Given our relatively small portion of the market,  there had to be

a bit of dedication to the subject involved in those offerings.

 

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Tony, to answer your question, here's the entire email by Mr. John Harland, dated 15Feb2005 on the SSL blog (with original punctuation):

"Even to someone with a solid knowledge of Dutch, the English version is much to be preferred.  I posted something about these books to the List in 1997 and 2000, but since many folk have subscribed since then, below I attempt to summarize the thoughts in my earlier posts and compare the two versions.  

 

From the modeler's point of view, the English version is a classic, and over the years various publishers have fruitlessly tried to reach an accommodation with the author's surviving relatives about doing a reprint.  It originally appeared in Dutch, in the early fifties, a *Model van de Oorlogsbrik Irene*.  This ran 200 pages, 496 figures.  It included some photos and a set of plans at 1:50.  The same publisher brought out the English edition *Modelling the Brig-of-War IRENE* in 1970, and this runs 264 (sic 286) pages, 573 figures [Plans not included].  It is a monograph dealing with a model of the British built GRASSHOPPER, which after capture, served for some years in the Royal Dutch Navy.  Nominally it is an account of the building of one particular model, but its usefulness to the period modeler substantially transcends this. 

 

E W Petrejus worked at the Prins Henrik Maritime Museum in Rotterdam and authored at least two other books: *De Bomschuit: Een verdwenen Scheepstype*  (The bombschuit, a vanishing ship type) and *Oude Zeilshepen et hun Modellen* (Old sailing ships and their models).  The latter features the same type of pen-and-ink sketches which decorate the pages of the Irene book.

 

The English edition of 'Irene' is much more than just a translation, having many more pages and diagrams than the original.  Anyone lucky enough to have a copy will note that the title page reads:

"Dedicated to Mr D L Dennis of St Paul, Minn. USA"

 

Who was Dexter L Dennis, and why was it dedicated to him?  His name will be familiar to older modelers from his contributions to Mariner's Mirror and the Nautical Research Journal in the 1960s.  Petrejus in fact wrote excellent English, but submitted the 'Irene' text to Dennis, a retired mining engineer, for his comments, and I am certain that a great many of the footnotes and much else, were the latter's contributions.  The collaboration proceeded at a leisurely pace over many years.  In a letter dated July 26 1957, Petrejus says:

"The last few months I have been working on the Irene translation again.  I hope to send you the rest of the text within a few weeks.  Do it easily Mr Dennis: I know the summer is not the proper time for work like this..."   [Dennis suffered from chronic respiratory problems.]

 

And in a letter dated Aug 26 1959, he says:

"For some months I have been working hard on the old Irene, and I must say my last grey hairs have turned white with puzzling over the many problems your remarks have placed before me, especially in the chapters on sails and rigging.  Of course I am glad you did so.  Not only did they enable me to make grammatical and other corrections, but they also forced me to plunge into the matter again, and it is certain the contents of the book have gained by doing so."

 

Rereading Petrejus's letters remind me of my own great debt to Dennis.  When researching *Seamanship in the Age of Sail*, he was an enormous help and his linguistic and engineering skills sorted out a many problems.  Said to say, he did not live to see the book in print.

 

John Harland

 

I retyped Mr Harland's email verbatum to show everyone that we stand on the shoulders of giants............................Duff  

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That's a wonderful bit of history, Duff. Thanks for that! I now understand that the reprint being referred to was not the 1970 edition, but one after that.

 

Tony

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Jan, Chapter XV in my 1970 English edition seems a full discussion of sails and rigging complete with diagrams, if that's what you're asking. Or am I mis-reading your question?

 

Tony

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Actually, i tried to ask whether the plans in dutch and english version are the same......

but your answer seems to answer my question :)

 

I am now tempted to buy an english edition, as i understand they are not equal....

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I received the following reply from the Dutch Maritime Museum:

 

"Thank you for your e-mail to the Maritime Museum Rotterdam (formerly named Maritiem Museum 'Prins Hendrik'). Egbert Willem Petrejus was born in Groningen in the north of the Netherlands on 28th February 1898. According to an an newspaper article in NRC Handelsblad of Monday 27th August 1973 he died in Delft (near Rotterdam). The link to this article is:

http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?query=e.w. petrejus&coll=ddd&identifier=KBNRC01%3A000032828%3Ampeg21%3Aa0020&resultsidentifier=KBNRC01%3A000032828%3Ampeg21%3Aa0020"

Tony

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