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gjdale

HMS Victory by gjdale - FINISHED - Mamoli - Scale 1:90

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Thanks Mobbsie - that's great. Sounds like Jotika/Caldercraft have used the same approach for Aggy as for their Victory. The pictures are a big help in terms of placement.

 

Did they provide you with Shroud Cleats for Aggy?

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Thanks Lawrence - most kind of you to say so.

 

Thanks B.E. for the extra photos. As far as I can tell they would seem to support my hypothesis on size and ratios.

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Yes they did, 40 of them, the moulding is absolutely rubbish and a lot of work is needed to make them right. 

 

Here are some pics mate, I hope they are clear enough for you to see the sizes

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

post-493-0-68458400-1389445856_thumb.jpg

post-493-0-71358700-1389445874_thumb.jpg

post-493-0-66483600-1389445888_thumb.jpg

post-493-0-70620200-1389445899_thumb.jpg

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Hi Grant, the appearance in the pictures seem to support your size.  Since the bottoms of the cleats seem to be lashed over, the lengths of the top seem to be less "prominent" .......just an inexperienced eye chiming in.....

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Thanks for the pictures of the cleats Mobbsie - looks like those measurements also support my hypothesis.

 

Thanks John for your observation too.

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Watching all of this between you and mobbsie and Lawrence makes me want to hurry up and finish my Santa Maria so I can build another 18th century vessel!

 

-Bug

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Grant,

Any chance the cleats you made can be modified given the latest information?

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Thanks Bug - no need to rush! You're doing a fantastic job on your Santa Maria - just enjoy that for now. The 18th Century vessels will still be waiting for you when you're ready.

 

Mark - I did consider that, and even tested a couple, but wasn't satisfied with result. I'll have another crack in a couple of days. Seconded to domestic duties today and back to work tomorrow :(

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Hi Grant,

 

I think you can re-titled the build in bashed  :D  :D

Amazing what you are doing !

And it looks so real !

When you go on at this way it takes you another 10 years to finish her  :D  :D

 

 

animaatjes-sjors-94584.gif

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I hope not Sjors!!! I would like to be completely finished by Easter this year. That will depend on how crazy work gets in the next few months, and how many other little "surprises" I find as I complete the rigging.

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Hi Grant

 

After 10 years on your build the Victory it will be kind of sad to complete all the work on her and on the other hand a great blessing, to be able to start another build. It's great just to sit back and watch you bring forward all of your great ideas, keep up the great work and Enjoy.

 

Regards   Lawrence

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Hi Lawrence,

 

Thanks for your kind comments. Sjors was referring to "another" 10 years from now. This build has now been underway for coming up 18 years (on and off), so yes, I'm keen to get finished and start something fresh. :)

 

But there is no point in rushing - it will be finished when it's finished to my satisfaction. Only problem is, the longer I hang around MSW, the higher the standard for satisfaction becomes!!!

 

In the meantime, I've found that Cornwall Model Boats, in the UK, stock some Amati 5mm Anvil Cleats (in metal) that look like they will do the job nicely if I can't manage to make something sufficiently usable from timber. So we have a back-up plan! :)

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Grant,

When I made shroud cleats for bounty I had a similar mass production idea, but came at it from a different direction.

 

I crosscut a piece of timber from a blank.  Thickness = depth of cleat, width = length of cleat.  I then shaped that - a concave depression on the top, a cut on each side to make the profile so I could then just slice off individial cleats, tidy up with a file and install.

 

I don't have pics anymore, so I hope that made some sort of sense - give you another option for how to make them.

 

Colin

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Thanks Colin,

 

I like that approach too. Need to see if I've got some stock of the right size to try that. Definitely worth a go.

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I'm sure you'll be able to sort something out with all the toys at your disposal my friend ( very green eyed )


 


Good idea to have a backup plan but I feel confident you wont need it.


 


Bummer about having to go back to work mate, but hey,   just think,    you could be like me mate  RETIRED.


 


Be Good


 


mobbsie


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Okay, been thinking about Shroud Cleats for a couple of days and decided that the method described above by Colin was probably the most likely to achieve success (thanks Colin ;) )

 

First up, I needed to draw something up with dimensions so that I had a clear picture of what I was trying to achieve, so I knocked up a quick diagram in TurboCAD and was fairly satisfied with the overall size, proportions and shape of this:

 

post-242-0-50302000-1396654987_thumb.jpg

 

This cleat pattern is 5mm "wide" by 3mm "tall".  I had intended to use this as a pattern, glued to the wood to aid cutting, but in the end didn't use it as such.  The important thing was the dimensions, which determined the cutting process.

 

The next important consideration was getting the grain direction correct on the finished piece to maximise strength and minimise potential for breakage.  For some reason this messed with my head for a while, but I eventually worked it out.  Taking a piece of Boxwood sheet 3mm thick and about two inches wide, I cut 5mm wide strips across the grain.  This means that in the finished product, the grain will run along the length of the cleat.

 

Then having worked out that I wanted the "feet" of the cleats to have a 1mm thickness for securing to the shrouds, I cut a dado using a 0.020" kerf blade in the Brynes saw, 1.67mm deep on both sides of the strip.  These dimensions were important to achieving the final shape.

 

post-242-0-93365500-1396654988_thumb.jpg

 

post-242-0-46623700-1396654990_thumb.jpg

 

You can see in the above pics that the stock on one side of the cut is thicker than the other side.

 

The next step was to creat the "anvil" shaped horns for the top of the cleat.  This was done using some curved riffler files, with the stock held in a small vice.

 

post-242-0-00322000-1396654992_thumb.jpg

 

In the next photo, one side of the anvil has been shaped:

 

post-242-0-39544100-1396654993_thumb.jpg

 

The stock was then returned to the Brynes saw and a very shallow "kissing" cut was made along the centre of the top side.  This was used as a guide for a round file to then shape the curve across the top of the anvil, and leaving a very shallow recess to assist in securing the cleat to the shrouds.  In the next pic you can see the final shape, with the curve and recess visible.

 

post-242-0-94200900-1396654994_thumb.jpg

 

The last step was to return once more to the Byrnes saw and slice off individual cleats 1mm thick.  The hardest part of this process was catching the little buggers as they flew off the saw!  :o  :o  :o

 

Here's the yield from one piece of stock originally measuring 5mm x 3mm x about 2 inches (about 30 cleats all up, a few of which will be further modified to make mast cleats):

 

post-242-0-80238500-1396654996_thumb.jpg

 

post-242-0-64473900-1396654998_thumb.jpg

 

And here they are, stained black and ready for installation.

 

post-242-0-10422900-1396655000_thumb.jpg

 

They still look a little "chunky", but I think I'm happy with them - they seem to be no worse than the metal versions available, at any rate.

 

Now I just have to attach them to the shrouds.   :wacko:  :wacko:  :wacko:

Edited by gjdale

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Good morning Grant

 

i have just caught up with your log, i have missed so much,

 

The Bismarck - for me certainly was not a mistake, i lost my direction with the Victory, and rather than get rid of it i decided for a change of direction, 

With my mojo back, the intentions are to have her back in the workshop around Easter, and push forward with her through the summer months, i dont want - or have the room for two big builds on the go at the same time

hope you are well

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Hi Grant,

I like what you are doing here mate and your process is well thought out and executed, however I think that the Anvil is a little thick. I feel they could be reduced a little from the underside which would add a little more shape to the horns.

 

It may just be angle of the photos I don't know and the real test will be when you attach them to the ropes.

 

The Caldercraft cleats attach to the ropes over the top of the anvil, will yours attach the same way or do you intend to attach around the base of the cleat.

 

I hope you don't mind me mentioning this mate.

 

Be Goodie

 

mobbsie

 

Sent from my IPhone

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Thanks for the comments and "likes" folks.

 

Bug - assembly line is the only way to go for these parts! Working with a larger piece of stock is also much easier than trying to shape these little critters individually.

 

Kevin - welcome back. I've been keeping an eye on your Bismarck, but I'll be looking forward to seeing more progress on your Victory.

 

Mobbsie - you just knew I wasn't quite satisfied with them didn't you? ;) I agree, the anvil is still a little heavy. I've got an idea half formed that I might try tomorrow - now that I've got the basic shape and method worked out, it shouldn't take too long. My biggest concern though is making the horns too fragile. To answer your other question, fixing to the shrouds will be via lashings around the "legs" and also around the centre portion - as per the actual ship fit. That's the intention, anyway.

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Hi Mate,

 

Thanks for that, hope I haven't caused you too much aggro. :( :(

 

Good luck when you attach them to the shrouds, that's going to be some fiddly work, I still have that pleasure to come. :(

 

I'm having to redo the deadeyes on the main shrouds, didn't take into account the rope stretch, that's a real pain in the **** I can tell you. :( :(

 

That should make you feel a bit better. :) :)

 

Be Good and Stay Cool

 

mobbsie

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Hi Grant,

 

Would it help to sand a bit of a concave shallow in the top surface of the strip before making the other cuts?

 

I'm glad you mention that the grain direction issue messed with your head a bit.  In looking ahead a little, contemplating how I am going to make the cleats for my bulwarks, that was a puzzler for me.

 

Robert

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Thanks Robert,

 

I think the top surface is okay in terms of when to do it. I'm thinking about being a little more aggressive on the side cuts though. I'll do a test today and let you know how it goes.

 

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one whose head gets messed with thinking about grain direction ;)

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Okay, so I wasn't really happy with the last version of the shroud cleats.  I was being lazy and thankfully Mobbsie called me on it - thanks mate!  ;)

 

So this morning I had another crack.  As I'd already prepared another piece of stock with the basic saw cuts, it didn't take much additional work.  I widened the dados in the side, and filed the curves in again.

 

Here's the results of the latest effort (not yet stained black):

 

post-242-0-65342500-1396655192_thumb.jpg

 

post-242-0-07276900-1396655194_thumb.jpg

 

And here's a comparison of the new (on the left) with the previous version (on the right).  I've included a metric ruler as a reminder of just how small these things really are.

 

post-242-0-50638700-1396655195_thumb.jpg

 

I think these are much better, but I'd value any and all opinions.  Do I go with these, or is it back to the drawing board?

 

I would be reluctant to try and make any parts thinner as I'm already down to 1mm square on the "feet' that will attach to the shrouds.

 

Waddayareckon?

 

Edited by gjdale

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I just went back a few pages in your log to look at the photos of the real ones, and I reckon you did it Grant!

 

Robert

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I think you've nailed it this time Grant with the modified cleats, and I intend to adopt your method for Pegasus. :)

 

Cheers,

 

M.

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Hi Grant

 

Your latest version of your cleats do look a lot better they are not so chunky so to speak, looks like I will be adding a few of these to my Victory.   Enjoy.

 

Regards   Lawrence

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Thanks Robert and B.E. - your votes of confidence are much appreciated.looks like we have a winner. :)

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