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Byrnes table saw questions

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I have had my Byrnes table saw for quite a while but have used it very little since I got it for various reasons. I want to get serious with using it now but I think I'm doing something wrong. My work is binding and stalling the saw ripping some 1/4" boxwood. I am using it with the fence to the left of the blade but I see everyone using the fence to the right of the blade. Is that my problem? I am right handed and have never used a table saw before. 

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Al:

You didn't mention the blade being used - if you are using a fine slitting blade it's probably heating up, warping and causing the binding.  However with you being right handed use the fence on the right side of the blade.  A thin slitting blade with many teeth has a tendency to heat up because the blade doesn't have any set to the teeth and the sawdust isn't ejected like with a true wood cutting blade.

 

Follow the attached photo and you will not have binding (except from a hot, warped blade).  Using the fence as shown makes it safer too as the cut off piece also falls away from the blade.  If "trapped" between the blade and fence the off-cut can be sent back at the operator by the blade's rotation.

 

If you are cutting a bunch of strips of the same width use a set up like in the 2nd photo - it assures each strip is the same width in a safer manner.  The guide on the left must be well forward of the blade - it's just used to set the width of the cut - the wood is guided just as shown in the first photo.

 

Hope this helps.

Kurt

ERASERS - PUSH 1.jpg

STRIP_FIXTURE_-USE.jpg

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Thank you Kurt. I am using a fine tooth blade. I will change blades and switch the fence to the other side and give it a try. I really like the fixture in the second picture. I should be able to make something like that. I really appreciate you sharing your experience. Should I just throw away the burned blade?

Edited by alde
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Al:

Check the blade for flatness using a piece of plate glass or something that is truly flat.  If it's not flat get rid of it.  If the blade is burned the metal's no good but if it's just "burned on" resins from the wood it can be cleaned up - if it's still flat.

 

The clamp I used for the strip jig is an old aluminum X-Acto clamp.  The portion that fits into the groove on the saw had to be narrowed, but a carbide tipped blade on the Byrnes saw did the job w/o any damage to the blade.

 

Let us know how your next try comes along.

 

Kurt

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Thanks again Kurt. I'll play with it tomorrow if I can and let you know how it goes. I'm looking forward to getting some good use out of the saw.

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Al, another option is to try the following:-

 

The fence has a slight taper from middle to back to allow the cut plank to move slightly away from the saw. When using slitting blades on some woods I find this isn't enough so I increase it by attaching a thin 6" rule to the fence with double sided tape. The end of the rule nearest the blade overlaps the front edge of the blade by about 1/2"DSC03398.thumb.JPG.5ca449066125ae2d33d89f0c47b0bd59.JPGDSC03399.thumb.JPG.b9aa3cfda43dd74e0ae88a7a7a20eda1.JPG

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I went ahead and changed blades back to the carbide blade that shipped with the saw. I also moved the fence to the right of the blade and tightened down the front lock screw first. Now it cuts great. I still need to learn some good technique but otherwise I'm cutting decent planks. Thank you all for your help.

Test Cuts.jpg

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Al, the carbide blade is good but because it is wider it's a little more wasteful than the .030 slitting saw blade that I typically use to rip planks. The slitting saw blade also produces a superior finish. You might want to try the slitting saw blade with the attached rule trick some time. But for now I'm pleased you are ripping good planks.

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39 minutes ago, KeithAug said:

Al, the carbide blade is good but because it is wider it's a little more wasteful than the .030 slitting saw blade that I typically use to rip planks. The slitting saw blade also produces a superior finish. You might want to try the slitting saw blade with the attached rule trick some time. But for now I'm pleased you are ripping good planks.

Keith, I have a .30 Slitting blade and I will go ahead and try your suggestion next. The carbide blade does waste a lot of wood and the cuts are not as nice as they could be I'm sure. I will let you know how it goes.

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Table Saw Basics, by Roger Cliffe.  A whopping $1.25 used on Amazon. 

 

Although the Byrnes saw is smaller, it is the same tool as a full size table saw.  Buy the book and learn a ton about a tool that can remove a finger if not handled correctly. BTW,  I worked in a woodshop where the saws were set up with the fence to the left of the blades.  I am right handed and it was awkward at first, but the saws were high quality and set up well, so the fence side didn't affect the cut.  At home my fence is to the right of the blade, where, in my opinion, they should be.  The comments above about blade choice and setting the fence properly are right on the mark.  Buy that book and it will give you even more info that will make that great saw you have cut to its fullest potential.

 

Enjoy!!

 

-John

 

 

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2 hours ago, john_wilmer said:

Table Saw Basics, by Roger Cliffe.  A whopping $1.25 used on Amazon. 

 

Although the Byrnes saw is smaller, it is the same tool as a full size table saw.  Buy the book and learn a ton about a tool that can remove a finger if not handled correctly. BTW,  I worked in a woodshop where the saws were set up with the fence to the left of the blades.  I am right handed and it was awkward at first, but the saws were high quality and set up well, so the fence side didn't affect the cut.  At home my fence is to the right of the blade, where, in my opinion, they should be.  The comments above about blade choice and setting the fence properly are right on the mark.  Buy that book and it will give you even more info that will make that great saw you have cut to its fullest potential.

 

Enjoy!!

 

-John

 

 

John, thanks for the suggestion. I just ordered a copy of the book. I had to pay a whopping  $4.25 for it though. I'm sure I will get my monies worth out of it though.

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I always liked that series of books.   During my married years my wife once called me at work and asked "How do I turn on your table saw?"  Scariest thing I ever heard!

 

Your guitar build was an interesting read.  I learned my formal woodworking skills by "helping" a friend in his professional shop, similar to your situation with your luthier friend. 

 

-John

 

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4 hours ago, john_wilmer said:

I always liked that series of books.   During my married years my wife once called me at work and asked "How do I turn on your table saw?"  Scariest thing I ever heard!

 

Your guitar build was an interesting read.  I learned my formal woodworking skills by "helping" a friend in his professional shop, similar to your situation with your luthier friend. 

 

-John

 

I would panic if I got that phone call too. Luckily my wife can't even use a screwdriver and makes no attempt at trying. 

 

The guitar build was one of the best learning experiences of my life. Aside from the woodworking skills it taught me patients and it got me over the fear of trying something new or difficult. That fear kept me from finishing the guitar for 8 years. Once I started back on it I realized that a mistake was not the end of the world and saw that I could learn and do whatever I needed to finish it on my own.

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This morning I tried Keith's suggestion of double stick taping a 6" steel ruler to the fence just behind the front of the blade. It works perfectly now. I can cut nice clean burn free cuts with no binding at all with a fine slitting blade. I'm a very happy camper. 

 

I still don't understand how it was binding just using the fence alone. It seems to be perfectly parallel to the blade. It's probably my technique. 

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Al,

 

I don't think it your technique. I think what happens is the the pressure between the fence and the thin slitting saw blade deflects (bends) the blade away from the fence very slightly. This causes the a wedge effect which gets worse as the cut progresses. The rule relieves the sideways pressure allowing the slitting saw to run true. At least thats what I think.

 

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28 minutes ago, KeithAug said:

Al,

 

I don't think it your technique. I think what happens is the the pressure between the fence and the thin slitting saw blade deflects (bends) the blade away from the fence very slightly. This causes the a wedge effect which gets worse as the cut progresses. The rule relieves the sideways pressure allowing the slitting saw to run true. At least thats what I think.

 

I can definitely see that. I'm totally happy now that I can make nice clean cuts. Thanks again.

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I got the saw of a guy with almost all bells and whistles and a bunch of blades. As "hobby mills blade selection" advise shined some light on what I have

there still a question of this particular blade. It is #128 .010 and it is very thin.  Figured would be most economical for slitting planks but feared it will flex

which it did. At this point seems useless to me but hopefully someone would hint what it is used for and how to use it. Would Zero-Clearance plate correct flexing?

20171008_112058.thumb.jpg.0cbda0ca2b615daaef0258ca353c31c8.jpg

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Also want to switch to metric Micrometer stop. Saw has the standard one. Is there a way to avoid buying a whole new stop and just get 

a metric micrometer for it. Seems like just any micrometer off Ebay will not do the trick as has to be threaded to fit Jim's thread on the stop

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Mit

 

The .010 blade is going to flex no matter what you do, a 0 insert won't help.  The mic head is a 3/8 mount, no threads, it's glued on with locktite

 

regards

Jim

 

 

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The basic factor here is matching the blade to the job.

A thin fine tooth blade SEEMS like it would save wood -

by having less kerf and a smoother surface. 

The problem is that the gullet of the teeth fill with saw dust

early in the cut and the wood is being removed more by

friction than mechanical slicing.  Even more heat is produced

by forcing the blade.  Being thin, it gets hotter and flexes.
 

The rule/goal for a band saw blade is, I think, 3 teeth in contact thru

the stock thickness.  Our choice of blade is a balance.  More set =

rougher cut surface, faster and less heat.  Fewer larger teeth,

thicker blade - more kerf, rougher surface, less heat,  faster.

Really thin stock is affected by the chopping force, so large

teeth can move or split the wood.

 

Blade #128 / 0.1  is a metal slitting blade.  Try it on really thin veneer

( but a #11 blade and a straight edge may be more efficient ) or

cutting slots for hatch gratings.

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Thank you Jim !

Thank you Jaager !

 

So #128 I can cut some thin brass (Thought its not recommended to cut anything else but wood on Byrnes saw) and I guess 

metal itself will stop the blade from flexing/wobbling.  I need to take an inventory of blades that came with the saw and post them here to see what they are for.

Apparently previous owner had the money to spend and just said give me everything you have and double that (I do have two of each blade)

20171008_112036.thumb.jpg.b8608bb4f12e0d2bf8a0b2b3001bc5c0.jpg

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So do zero clearance inserts help with blade flexing or just with tear-out and small pieces jamming into the gap?

 

2 hours ago, jimbyr said:

Mit

 

The .010 blade is going to flex no matter what you do, a 0 insert won't help.  The mic head is a 3/8 mount, no threads, it's glued on with locktite

 

regards

Jim

 

 

 

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