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This may be a silly question/ observation. I have often wondered what would happen during a tropical downpour (or other heavy rain) with a relatively large opening down through a chimney to the ship's stove. Was there ever a deflecting cover of some sort over the top opening of the chimney or maybe at the base of the chimney to reduce/ divert what could be a large volume of unwanted water from entering the stove ? The attached image shows what one builder came up with, not from a historical basis but from logic. I have seen some chimneys with a short right-angled section at the top which would work but chimneys are often drawn as simple upright structures. Any comment would be appreciated.

chimney.jpg

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Hi Pete;

 

In the Royal Navy,  the chimney flue was normally finished with a section which curved over,  so that the discharge was horizontal.  This final section could be rotated to point downwind,  whatever the ship's point of sailing.  The attached picture,  of a model of HMS Captain,  1708,  in the Science Museum's collection,  shows one type,  with handles. 

 

I am not sure if this one could rotate,  or if it was simply lifted off,  and turned in 90 degree increments before being put back in place. 

 

Second picture is of the well-known model of HMS Bellona,  1760,  in the NMM.  Her chimney is rounded at the end,  so the final bent section could be rotated to any degree desired.

 

I have seen the round type depicted with handles also.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

 

 

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The older type of flue was removable and could be replaced with a cover over the hatch.

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Mark

Do you have more photos of Captain 1708 or do you know if the Science Museum has some and plans of any of the 1706 Establishment 70's?

Thanks

 

Allan

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Evening Allan;

 

I have more photos of Captain.  See the album in the contemporary models in Museums section here.  If you would like any of them let me know,  and I can pop them on a disk for you and send it off across the pond.

 

I am not sure what photos the Science Museum have.  I have seen some of their plans,  and Captain was not among them.  They do have good contemporary plans,  showing the figurehead,  inboard works and decoration,  of the Deptford 1719, Exeter (Date?) Strafford 1714,  & Winchester 1717 which I think were 50 gun ships,  although not certain on this.  I imagine that these were built to the 1706 establishment.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

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Thanks Mark,

 

I will take a look at the contemporary models in Museums section but I really appreciate your offer.  Will let you know:)

 

Allan

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On a Swan class ship, for example, the galley cowl could be rotated and the baffle closed in a downpour. I suspect it could also be removed and covered by a hatch or canvas in a heavy storm.

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I know this is only a small point to ponder over but from the photos of stove chimneys posted in response to my question, I assume that most kit drawings are a simplification. Logically, most/ all stoves would have needed protection from water entry.

Pete

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Hi Pete;

 

That seems logical enough.  Many of the inboard works draughts,  or sheer draughts which show inboard works,  also show the stove in some detail.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

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Pete,

I don't know if you're only covering English ships, and I can't speak with 100% certainty, but the French didn't use "stoves" as such.  The used "fireplaces" that were open on the front and top with large pots for boiling the food.  Under the overhead beams were plates that directed the smoke to the chimney.  The fireplace used for the officers could also roast meat.  They also had ovens for fresh bread and "pastries".  I'm not sure what is meant by "pastries" back than, however.

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Pete,

 

Look around in the scratch area at some of the French ships.  By per chance do you have a copy of Frolich's "The Art of Ship Modeling"?  It might help even with such things as the way cannon were rigged, etc.   I think zu Mondfeld's "Historic Ship Models" also has such info.

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Thanks  Toni - that makes me think more directly about the stove design itself. Just maybe there was a series of internal baffles to allow heat, smoke, etc out and upwards and diverted downward entry of water away to one side ?

Pete

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I may be somewhat full of it and know really nothing about this at all, (Highly likely in fact) but I can't help but think some water down that stack would be pretty much a non issue. I would think that in seas that were high enough to go down the stack the cooking fire would be banked or even extinguished all together for fear of causing an unwanted fire in the pitching and rolling of the ship. In that case it would be a simple matter to just cover the stack with a canvas cover much like you would use on a hatch.

 

Lou

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Lou - you are not full of it !!! This was just a little diversion from my everyday work by creating a bit of lateral thinking. Your answer is quite logical and I like what you said. The point is that we often gloss over the small things and I was interested to get a range of opinions.

Pete

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Pete

 

Just because my comment was acceptable does not mean that I'm not full of it! :huh: The Admiral reminds me constantly that this is pretty much a state of being for me!

 

I made the comment thinking that in many small ships, when the weather became rough many meals were served cold if at all. While I have never been at sea one scene comes to mind from the movie "The Cruel Sea" where the ship is in the North Atlantic rolling and pitching with a couple of feet of water sloshing back and forth knocking everyone in the way down. It was a wonder that in those conditions anyone could get anything done let alone eat!

 

Lou 

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Hi Lou & Pete;

 

Reading 'The Cruel Sea' made me very glad that I was not around at the time.  Hats off and all praise to those who served,  including the merchant ships' crews.

 

I have seen some pretty detailed drawings and sections through galley stoves,  and the only thing that was normally found inside the chimney was a horizontal fan,  which was turned by the rising heat.  The rotation of this fan was then used to power the rotating spit.  If my memory is not betraying me,  this was a feature of the Brodie Stove,  which came into use around 1780 (I think)  Prior to that,  the chimney was just a tube.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

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Never mind the eating...pity the poor cooks!  Having cooked using a gimbal stove on a 38 ft sailboat in moderately stormy seas I can attest to the difficult nature of keeping eggs in the pan and stew in the pot....and no, I wasn't interested in eating once the food was ready!

Edited by clifforddward
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Thanks to Lou, Mark P and Clifford - your comments are much appreciated and given me a more rounded picture. I think I was getting a little too focused on just the technical side of things as it all started with a photo I received from another builder(see top).

Thanks again, Pete

 

Pete

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