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I've just made my first rope on my new Syren Rope Rocket and thought I'd share my experiences. 

 

First thing to say is that I was delighted with the result. I'd had a little previous experience with the more basic 'handraulic' version from Model Expo so I had some idea how to make rope, but even so I was surprised just how well my first efforts turned out.

Line.thumb.jpg.cac6797cc542bfe579beb5710d0af4a3.jpgRocket.thumb.jpg.3661bbd0af49ad39c540bce106478141.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The line on the left was my first effort - three single strands of the thread Chuck supplied with the kit producing 10' of 0.67mm/0.026" rope.

The one on the right has 9 strands of the same thread. You can put multiple strands on the Rope Rocket, so I tried 3 strands between each pair of hooks. Apart from a minute or two more to set up, it takes no longer to produce 9 strand than 3 strand material. The resulting rope was just over 1.2mm/0.047".

 

A few suggested Do's & Dont's from my experience so far:

 

Do watch Chuck's videos (on the Syren website and YouTube). They're excellent, and I learned more from them than umpteen written descriptions of rope making.

Do take the time to clean off the laser char and varnish the headstock and tailstock. The cherry is a fine wood and it would be a shame not to bring out the best in it.

Don't do what I did, and varnish the ropewalk after assembly. I did this, and despite my best efforts I gummed up some of the moving parts. Easily sorted, but avoidable. It would have also been much easier to varnish the parts before assembly, but I was too impatient! Also don't get varnish on the underside of the assemblies, or if you do clean it off. I've found a lot of the art of rope making lies in getting a feel for how the headstock or tailstock wants to 'walk' along the table as you spin up the ropewalk, and to do that they need to be able to slide freely.

Do make sure you've got some very small hex keys (aka allen keys). I struggled to find one for the very smallest set screws. Until I eventually found one (1.3mm) I had to make do with a jeweller's screwdriver (the size used for adjusting the tiny screws in spectacles) but I wouldn't recommend that as it might distort the set screws.

Do follow Chuck's advice in the instructions and use a strong epoxy or a CA with good gap filling properties to stick the eye screws into the brass tubes in the headstock. This is the only part of the construction that makes me a bit nervous, as the fit is quite loose and the eye screws come under considerable tension. I've had no problems so far, but eventually I might replace the tube/eye screw arrangement with a single length of solid brass, with one end fashioned into a hook. Incidentally, like Chuck I opened up the eye screws slightly, making it much easier to set up the thread. However unlike Chuck I opened them before fixing them in place, as I was worried that too much twisting with pliers might weaken the glue joint.

Do check that everything spins freely when assembled. I found that the big central gear in the headstock tended to rub slightly against the washers under the smaller gears. This might be a result of some mistake on my part, but its something others might want to check for themselves. I found that an appropriately sized washer glued to the face of the headstock brought the big gear out just far enough to engage nicely with the small gears.

Do watch Chuck's videos again!

 

In summary, I'm delighted with the Rope Rocket and the rope it produces and would highly recommend it. I'm off now to experiment with different threads, 4-ply rope & etc. I've also got Chuck's Serv-o-Matic and am lookking forward to my first foray into serving.

 

Derek

 

Cheers, Derek

 

Current build:   Duchess of Kingston

On hold:              HMS Winchelsea

 

Previous builds:  HMS SpeedyEnglish Pinnace, Royal Yacht Caroline (gallery),

                            Victory Cross-section (gallery), US Clipper Albatros, Red Dragon (years ago!)

 

On the stocks:    18th Century Longboat

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That rope looks EXCELLENT!!!!!!  Very well done.  :D I am so glad you enjoyed making your own rope.  I am busy as we speak laser cutting teh parts to restock the ropewalk right now.

 

Chuck

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Almost forgot,  I am now selling extra shaft hubs for those who wish to have them.  Some have found it easier to permanently glue the hubs to the cherry discs on the tail stock.  It makes switching from three strand to four strand even quicker.  Just as an FYI

 

Chuck

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You had to be in sales in a previous life after adding that one.;)

John Allen

 

Current builds HMS Victory-Mamoli

On deck

USS Tecumseh, CSS Hunley scratch build, Double hull Polynesian canoe (Holakea) scratch build

 

Finished

Waka Taua Maori War Canoe, Armed Launch-Panart, Diligence English Revenue Cutter-Marine  Model Co. 


 

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Thanks Chuck. In my first post, I should have pointed out that, unlike other rope I've made and seen, the rope from the Rocket really doesn't untwist when you cut it. I know you say this in your videos, but I had to see it for myself to appreciate it:

Line.thumb.jpg.745cec5c381c48b31064627542474af4.jpg

I made this line from three strands of a slightly thinner DMC thread than you supply in the kit (#70). The resulting rope is 0.45mm/0.018" (it doesn't look as stark white as this in reality - it's more a pale tan).

 

Derek

Cheers, Derek

 

Current build:   Duchess of Kingston

On hold:              HMS Winchelsea

 

Previous builds:  HMS SpeedyEnglish Pinnace, Royal Yacht Caroline (gallery),

                            Victory Cross-section (gallery), US Clipper Albatros, Red Dragon (years ago!)

 

On the stocks:    18th Century Longboat

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  • 5 months later...

I have also purchased the Rope Rocket.  I will echo the comment and advice of Derek above.  It is super easy to use and the results are great.  I have been trying out some different brands of thread, I will post some images of the results soon!

-Rafael

p.s. I was a member of V.1 of MSW years ago, but when the forum crashed I was too discouraged to come back!

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Glad to have you back!!!  Please do post pictures and I hope to see you active on  forum once again.   :P

 

I would love to see what you are working on now as well.

 

Chuck

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Hi Chuck

I Just watched your videos of the Rope Rocket. Thanks for doing this, I was curious at the point where you just pushed the drill up to the back of the headstock and started Spinning. Later I realized that you are using a Phillips Driver bit in the drill to mate with the center bolt. A change I would make when I buy one of these is to change the bolt to a torques one. I personally have an aversion to Phillips screw and bolts.....Must be a British/Canadian ex pat thing... or just me.  That said I have driven thousands of Drywall Screws.

A great video and clear information, I particularly like the aspect of telling us that we need to practice to get the "Feel" of making the rope. This speaks to Craftsmanship and a knowledge that can only come from time at the task.

 

I also downloaded the scale rope chart, very nice. One thought occurs to me is to have a separate chart for each of the common scales, so that when one prints off the chart for say a 1:96 scale model the size of the real full size rope matches the model rope. or the chart for a 1:48 rope the sizes would be matched for that scale. I think that this would make deciding what rope to use easier for the novice who is reading information about the ropes and lines on their model.

 

I only offer these comments because in reading about blocks and lines there always seems to be some question about what these sizes are.

 

As soon as I get back from Whitehorse I will be ordering your rope rocket.

 

Michael

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Yupp...that would work.  But I lose those bits all the time so I keep a bunch on hand.  The machine itself is so simple but makes awesome rope.  

 

Here is the size chart you are talking about.

 

 

 

ropesizechart.pdf

 

ropesizechart.jpg

 

 

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Hi Chuck, I was thinking that for the scales chart that if the full size rope was 3/4 inch in say 1/2 inch scale or 1:24 then the appropriate rope diameter would be .031

or if we used 1/8th scale or 1:96 then 1/32 or .031" = 3" in full size and 1/64 or .015" = 1 1/2 inch diameter rope full size.

 

This was the reason that I thought that a separate chart for each scale would be easy to understand so each diameter of your rope would be clearly stated as to the diameter in full size for the stated scale.

 

Scales are one of the most confusing areas of modelwork in my opinion.

 

Michael

Edited by michael mott

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Michael,

The chart Chuck posted does exactly what you said.  But you just have to pick the number closest to the size you want.  He has his chart graduated in the sizes of rigging he provides that is available on his website.  Your eye won't pick out a few thousands difference in your rigging. 

 

Besides, Its impractical to get rope diameters in an exact size.  One must work with the yarns or rope diameters you have available to spin, thus the finished rope has the finished diameter from those yarns. 

 

 

 

Able bodied seaman, subject to the requirements of the service.

"I may very well sink, but I'm damned if I'll Strike!" JPJ

 

My Pacific Northwest Discovery Series:

On the slipways in the lumberyard

Union, 1792 - 1:48 scale - POF Scratch build

18th Century Longboat - circa 1790 as used in the PNW fur trade - FINISHED

 

Future Builds (Wish List)

Columbia Redidiva, 1787

HM Armed Tender Chatham, 1788

HMS Discovery, 1789 Captain Vancouver

Santiago, 1775 - Spanish Frigate of Explorer Bruno de Hezeta

Lady Washington, 1787 - Original Sloop Rig

 

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Thanks and I understand what you and Chuck are saying. My point was that to make it clear for the novice a simple notation beside each of the rope on the diagram and a separate page for each scale. So for instance for the :24 scale page

.008 = 3/16 rope

.012 = 1/4 or 5/16 rope 

And so on.

 

Michael

 

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Here are my rope samples using the Rope Rocket so far using some few different threads,

 

From left to right;

 

1. Londonderry Linen size 4, 3-strand, final size 1.3mm.

Starting thread was fuzzy.  I used extra beeswax, and burned off some of the fuzz(which is why it looks a little sooty!)

 

2. Corel kit supplied thread(it looks like linen, .4mm) 3-strand, final size 1.1mm

I like to look and feel of this one.

 

3. Londonderry linen #3095, 30/3, 3-strand, final size .85

Fuzzy and lumpy, disappointedin this thread.

 

3-6. Rope Rocket supplied thread; DMC Cordonnet Specia(cotton), no. 40, ecru, final sizes 1.3mm, 1mm, 65mm.

This thread makes really sharp rope!

 

7. Gutterman Quilting thread(cotton,) CA 02776, 3-strand, final size .5mm

I like the color, gloss and smoothness

rope.jpg

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Rafael,

so what’s your favorite?

nice explanation. 

 

 

 

Able bodied seaman, subject to the requirements of the service.

"I may very well sink, but I'm damned if I'll Strike!" JPJ

 

My Pacific Northwest Discovery Series:

On the slipways in the lumberyard

Union, 1792 - 1:48 scale - POF Scratch build

18th Century Longboat - circa 1790 as used in the PNW fur trade - FINISHED

 

Future Builds (Wish List)

Columbia Redidiva, 1787

HM Armed Tender Chatham, 1788

HMS Discovery, 1789 Captain Vancouver

Santiago, 1775 - Spanish Frigate of Explorer Bruno de Hezeta

Lady Washington, 1787 - Original Sloop Rig

 

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The only one I didn't like was the Londonderry #3035 due to the fuzziness and lumpiness.  The larger size Londonderry looked decent after the extra work involved.  The DMC Cordonnet cotton makes quite nice sharp rope and is very reasonably priced and comes in many thread sizes. 

I was surprised how nice the Corel thread turned out.  I found it labeled as hemp thread online, but I am not so sure due to it's sheen and smell when wet.   

I like the Gutterman quilting thread, no fuzziness whatsoever, and have been using it for serving rope using the Syren Serv-O-Matic.

 

I am partial to linen due to it's longevity, it seems very difficult to find good quality though(anyone have a source?)  I might buy some vintage linen thread via ebay/etsy and see how it works just for fun.

-R

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Thanks Rafael, that is very helpful.  Its nice to find sources of thread that produce a nice sharp layup in suitable color and quantities that's is also inexpensive. 

 

The DMC Cordonnet comes in large spools in multiple colors and sizes which is nice and is available at local shops.  I just need to figure out which thread number (10, 20, 40 , 80 etc) corresponds to what actual size.  I think the larger the number the smaller the diameter.  I've seen DMC thread as small as size 100 which is pretty small.

 

 

DMC.jpg

 

 

 

Able bodied seaman, subject to the requirements of the service.

"I may very well sink, but I'm damned if I'll Strike!" JPJ

 

My Pacific Northwest Discovery Series:

On the slipways in the lumberyard

Union, 1792 - 1:48 scale - POF Scratch build

18th Century Longboat - circa 1790 as used in the PNW fur trade - FINISHED

 

Future Builds (Wish List)

Columbia Redidiva, 1787

HM Armed Tender Chatham, 1788

HMS Discovery, 1789 Captain Vancouver

Santiago, 1775 - Spanish Frigate of Explorer Bruno de Hezeta

Lady Washington, 1787 - Original Sloop Rig

 

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The larger the number, the larger the diameter on DMC thread.  When I started making my own line I purchased all of the sizes 20-100 and made test line do determine the diameter of the completed line.  (All you need is a few feet.)  The diameter will be different for right-hand vs left-hand line so if you plan on having the correct lay for the different lines you will need to lay up both left and right-hand test line.  Remember, the line diameter will vary a little based on your individual technique.

Toni


Chairman Nautical Research Guild

Member Nautical Research and Model Society

Member Midwest Model Shipwrights

 

Current Builds:     NRG Rigging Project

Completed Builds: Longboat - 1:48 scale       HMS Atalanta-1775 - 1:48 scale       Half Hull Planking Project      Capstan Project     Swallow 1779 - 1:48 scale               Echo Cross Section   

Gallery:  Hannah - 1:36 scale.

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That’s great Toni, could you share your results with the DMC?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dowmer

 

 

 

Able bodied seaman, subject to the requirements of the service.

"I may very well sink, but I'm damned if I'll Strike!" JPJ

 

My Pacific Northwest Discovery Series:

On the slipways in the lumberyard

Union, 1792 - 1:48 scale - POF Scratch build

18th Century Longboat - circa 1790 as used in the PNW fur trade - FINISHED

 

Future Builds (Wish List)

Columbia Redidiva, 1787

HM Armed Tender Chatham, 1788

HMS Discovery, 1789 Captain Vancouver

Santiago, 1775 - Spanish Frigate of Explorer Bruno de Hezeta

Lady Washington, 1787 - Original Sloop Rig

 

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Having fun experimenting with different threads and lay-ups.

 

On the left; Fil de Lin au Chinois, #40, ecru(an expensive waxed linen thread often used in high-end leather working, think Hermes) 3-strand, final width ~80mm

very strong, no fuzz whatsoever, minimal lumps, maybe a little too waxy!

 

On the right; Londonderry Linen size 4 again, 6-strand(two per hook,) final width ~2.25mm

Burned the extra fuzz off again.  This is starting to be real rope size, no longer miniature!

linen threads.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

Maybe it would be useful to others to also post my results with rope making. I ve been using my home made ropewalk and have made lots of rope with DMC cotton. The biggest problem is that it stretches and the rigging loosens up and sags. I am not sure what to do to prevent this. So here it goes:

 

When using 1 thread per strand, the twist of the thread is importand. When using multiple threads, it does not matter.

Generally linen is fuzzy, maybe it can be burned with alcohol flame, maybe worth it if t does not stretch.

 

1. Cotolin, 60% cotton, 40% linen, 22/2, left twist. Very nice, supple, much less knots than the usual linen. Quite fuzzy though. 3 strands, 3 threads per strand, 1.9 mm rope

 

20181028_165620.thumb.jpg.415d39efcfd4eae4994df3aea7c7159b.jpg20181028_165659.thumb.jpg.ed8faeeacb13ec468c1a988f162b8131.jpg

 

2. Gutermann extra strong 100% polyester. Right twist. Creates a rope with a very "plastic" feel, not nice. 2x3, 1.1 mm rope

 

20181028_181040.thumb.jpg.cf918bd199fc42ade716aea97e8328b3.jpg20181028_181103.thumb.jpg.21db7e920598dc909615b10c92ffa907.jpg

 

3. DMC yarn

Left: 100% cotton, No twist, very nice thread and very nice rope, 2x3, 2.3 mm rope

Right, 50% linen, 50% cotton, not as sharp as it is fuzzy, no twist, 2x2, 2.3 mm rope

 

20181028_182111.thumb.jpg.aacfe572389074d6116ff6f507c22611.jpg20181028_182358.thumb.jpg.b13ed336ce94b942ae09b8f5811f21ed.jpg

 

4. Coats Dual Duty XP, 100% polyester, right twist. Despite being polyester, it made an acceptable rope which probably will not stretch. Just a touch fuzzy, barely noticeable. 4x3, 1.6 mm rope.

 

20181028_183025.thumb.jpg.37c7886163e775d4eb7cb7a46980845a.jpg20181028_183042.thumb.jpg.ef46365889fb61890cef749e20bcf59b.jpg

 

5. Coats Dual Duty Plus. 75% polyester, 25% cotton, right twist. I had high hopes for this thread but it produced a rope with a plastic feel, not very nice. Left twist. (1x3)x3, 1.6 mm.

 

20181028_184151.thumb.jpg.4fbd2f898781c023fa453327e21b076d.jpg20181028_184200.thumb.jpg.6c7ba562c064b69ad53bc0e57c2e71d5.jpg

 

6. DMC Cebelia, 100% cotton, right twist. Wonderful like all DMC threads, excellent rope but the other DMC threads probably more useful sizes.  Available in 10 weight that Cordonet is not. (1x3)x3, 2 mm rope.

 

20181028_184435.thumb.jpg.7c5692ac5f1a0d393b786026d93a5e76.jpg20181028_184446.thumb.jpg.0a26481a7319b2c85f2b8216681dd5cd.jpg

 

7. DMC Perle. 100% cotton, beautiful thread, no fuzz, left twist. Sizes 3 to 12, lots of colours. Excellent rope. This is my favourite thread for the scale I work (1:10).

Perle 5, 3x3, 2.1 mm

Perle 8, 3x3, 1.3 mm

Perle 12, 3x3, 1mm

 

20181028_185903.thumb.jpg.8dc16da2db188c247da1dd71ca524c3b.jpg

20181028_185926.thumb.jpg.8d660ce0372ddee184d1b1c4bf598c38.jpg

 

8. Bockens 40/2, 100% linen. Left twist. Fuzzy like all linen threads, also quite a few knots. Not as good as cotton but maybe it does not stretch. 2x3, 1.1 mm rope

 

20181028_190633.thumb.jpg.70c0d690672c6956bfc2200316139357.jpg20181028_190656.thumb.jpg.9cdaba2ea4bc8b582a173dff1f83ba4d.jpg

 

9. DMC Cordonet. 100% cotton, wonderful thread. Right twist, sizes from 100 weight to 20 weight. The 10 weight size has been dropped. Excellent for small ropes and small scale work. I could not find a rope in my stash but it is excellent. 

 

20181028_190841.thumb.jpg.23bcc631fe89bf91716ed44b9468a776.jpg

 

I suspect that the best thread may actually be some synthetic high tech one but these are usually available only commercially and in in huge quantities so unlikely we will be able to find out, test and obtain.

 

If someone has a tip on how to avoid the stretching of cotton ropes I would be very interested.

 

Regards

Vaddoc

Edited by vaddoc
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Nice looking rope, Vaddoc.   Are you "setting" the line (I think that's the correct term).   After taking it off the ropewalk, give the rope a sharp yank to set it. You'll need to do the complete line in sections.  I've not made much rope yet, mostly tested my ropewalk and the the setting seems to make a difference.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Yes, wet the line then stretch it.  It will help it set.  Even real rope was stretched after making it. 

 

 

 

Able bodied seaman, subject to the requirements of the service.

"I may very well sink, but I'm damned if I'll Strike!" JPJ

 

My Pacific Northwest Discovery Series:

On the slipways in the lumberyard

Union, 1792 - 1:48 scale - POF Scratch build

18th Century Longboat - circa 1790 as used in the PNW fur trade - FINISHED

 

Future Builds (Wish List)

Columbia Redidiva, 1787

HM Armed Tender Chatham, 1788

HMS Discovery, 1789 Captain Vancouver

Santiago, 1775 - Spanish Frigate of Explorer Bruno de Hezeta

Lady Washington, 1787 - Original Sloop Rig

 

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Thanks both

I am overtwisting the rope but not setting it. I will try though to wet  it and then stretch it in segments, I assume without distorting it.

I think though that the problem is with the structure of the cotton fibres. They are straight and they can slide on each other, so the rope will always stretch more. Wool on the other side, has curled fibres that catch and do not slide, this is why a wool cloth that has been washed and shrank will never come back while a cotton t-shirt can stretch and stretch. Man made fibres have very long fibres that may be elastic but will not stretch permanently. I do not know about hemp and the other traditional fibres used in ropes but probably had very different fibre properties to cotton.

 

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You are probably right about the internal friction that determines inter alia, if and how a rope will stretch. I don't have really experience with natural fibres, as the really small-scale ropes I made are all made from fly-tying yarns, but think that twisting the strands to nearly the break-point will result in a tighter rope with a shallower angle of the twist, more internal friction and, hence, less tendency to stretch.

 

Ropes from natural fibres will always change their length a bit as a fuction of ambient humity, as the fibres may swell, resulting actually in a slight shortening of the rope. I gather this is one of the reasons why people wax the ropes, to prevent humidity uptake to some extent.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
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11 hours ago, wefalck said:

I gather this is one of the reasons why people wax the ropes, to prevent humidity uptake to some extent.

 

Its also to get the fuzz to lay down on line. Anyway, that’s why I use it. It also gives the line a bit of that tarred look if you use a dark colored wax. 

 

 

 

 

 

Able bodied seaman, subject to the requirements of the service.

"I may very well sink, but I'm damned if I'll Strike!" JPJ

 

My Pacific Northwest Discovery Series:

On the slipways in the lumberyard

Union, 1792 - 1:48 scale - POF Scratch build

18th Century Longboat - circa 1790 as used in the PNW fur trade - FINISHED

 

Future Builds (Wish List)

Columbia Redidiva, 1787

HM Armed Tender Chatham, 1788

HMS Discovery, 1789 Captain Vancouver

Santiago, 1775 - Spanish Frigate of Explorer Bruno de Hezeta

Lady Washington, 1787 - Original Sloop Rig

 

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  • 3 months later...

I am now a proud owner of a Syren Rope Rocket, and just made my first lines on it.

 

I initially had a problem in the first stage of winding up the individual threads. They sometimes curled back on themselves in places, leading to little bumps in the finished line (see below). I am guessing that I was not holding the headstock tight enough to avoid sagging of the lines, or perhaps the tensions were not the same in the individual lines when I first tied them up.

 

A subsequent effort, when I adjusted for these mistakes, worked much better (see below).

 

A challenge for me is to tie the lines with the same tension. I am using a simple overhand loop at the headstock, to form a strong knot that can be slipped over the eye rings. At the tailstock I am using a ring hitch, because I can adjust the tension after tightening up, and then a half hitch to secure. Have others found more efficient knots for this?

 

Great product, Chuck. My previous efforts at ropewalks (purchased and handmade) did not work nearly as well as yours.

 

Mark

 

IMG_8294.jpg

IMG_8298.jpg

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