Pegasus Cross Section (1776)- 1:48 - by Chuck - swan class sloopl

[Chuck]

Pretty much from scratch...but it was really good to have David's drafting on the parts first.  That saved lots of time although I basically had to redo them to add the kit features you see.  On projects like the Winnie,  you basically start with the original drafts...import them into Corel draw and start designing....just like if you put a piece of tracing paper over a paper copy of the draft and used a pencil.  I am just using a mouse instead.  Makes erasing mistakes a lot easier.

[Kurt Johnson]

Thanks. 

 

[Thistle17]

Kurt:

 

Chuck should have the last word on this subject as he is obviously a master. But if you would like a basic overview, our model group has developed a primer on our web site on this subject.  You will find it under RESOURCES/SHOP NOTES/LASER MACHINING. The site is  modelshipwrightguildwny.org. It is by no means a comprehensive treatment but one could get started as the shop note suggests with Corel Draw. You should be aware that some pre-machining file examination, parameter setting and conversion is done by the operator before it is submitted to the laser knife.

 

Hope this helps. I offer this in the spirit of sharing.

Joe

 

 

[Kurt Johnson]

Thanks Joe. I’ll definately read it. I never really delved into it before.

 

Kurt

[Kurt Johnson]

Okay, I read it and as I understand it you can imput the basic info and can then tweak it and play with it until you have what you desire. I am not minimizing the time and work involved. It allows you to take basic building blocks from an image or plans, instead of pulling stuff from thin air. You can also then add additional information on top of this template. Did I get this correctly? 

 

Sorry Chuck. I am not trying to hijack this thread. Just trying to understand the process. I know a tiny bit of traditional old fart drafting and this stuff seems amazing. It really seems to let your ideas be transformed into a reality. Even to crank out multiple physical trials untill it is perfect. How long would that have taken ten years ago.Then take the result and turn it into a marketable product. It’s a great time to be in this hobby (except for obtaining wood for a reasonable amount of money.)

 

Chuck. You’ve had enough of a rest, get back to work.  Winnie, blocks, blocks, Pegasus, rope, rope, coffee, rope........ blocks, rope, coffee......

[Chuck Seiler]

Chuck,

 

    Do we get a separate quarter for each frame or do we have to re-use the same one? 

 

   Seriously, this looks great!  I am looking forward to it progressing (in log form) and being available.

[yvesvidal]

Chuck,

 

How about including an option for a mast and some rigging? At this scale, that would make for an incredible model.

It would be more interesting than a couple of bilge pumps.

 

Yves

[yvesvidal]

Also, wasn't the Pegasus hull covered with Copper plates? Could that be included in the kit, or at least some instructions on how to do them at the scale of 1/48?  Hmmm... maybe it was not the same Pegasus....

 

Yves

Edited February 14, 2018 by yvesvidal

[Chuck]

Yes it was but, dont relate this to what your traditional kit might look like.  There are dozens of people asking for dozens of things....and the kit can not be everything for everyone.  Its kind of funny actually.  Who wants holly...who wants masts and rigging...who wants copper plates...Pump details...a boxwood option....the list is endless.  The beauty of the hobby is that any of you can very easily bash a kit like this to include copper plating.  Or buy a few sheets of Holly to plank it with,  or whatever else.  What you guys dont realize is that with every upgrade it will add $$$ to the cost of a kit.  For example,  many have balked at the price I am charging for the barge.  They dont understand how its different than other kits and what it takes to MFG it. 

 

I would like to keep this kit reasonably priced for the majority of builders...and not push this into the realm of where only 15% of the market will be willing to buy it or could afford it.  I am shooting for the $225-$250 range....but you guys can bash it easily enough.  I really dont mean to sound harsh but I wanted to let you know its a bit overwhelming and if you guys look back on the shear number of requests...thats a lot of upgrades and work for what most wouldnt want to pay more than five bucks extra for.  

 

Overwhelmed in New Jersey......

[Cathead]

It's amazing how obsessed people get with cheapness at the expense of all rationality. Sorry you have to deal with that crap. Try to keep in mind that you don't hear from all the people who do respect your work and think your prices are fair; it's just not in the human nature to send random emails or phone calls saying "attaboy" even when it's deserved. When's the last time any of us took the time to write/call a restaurant we really enjoyed, even though we'd be far more likely to write/call to complain about a problem?

[Captain Poison]

Chuck, I fully understand your point and agree that many of us can bash the kit, just follow your main idea and present your work that will be welcome..

Edited February 14, 2018 by Captain Poison

[Thistle17]

Chuck the good news is you have created quite a stir in the modeling community with your much sought after works. Sharing your work as you go was more than generous of you. The bad news is that it opens you up to everything from shouts of joy and encouragement to less complimentary feedback. It is in the human DNA and we all have experienced it. Stay the course and know that the vast majority in the community appreciate all you do!

Joe

[Chuck]

I am not saying everyone is cheap or even mean to suggest Ives is. Please dont get the wrong idea.  I Just want to point that out right away.  His last two suggestions were just a good point to mention that things are getting a bit crazy and overwhelming with the wish lists.  I got this covered.  The kit will be a very nice project that is affordable and very easily upgraded.  Mostly each builder will be able to do so with the tons and tons of info out there on Pegasus.  Sure it would be much easier for most if I was able to do the extra work and put it all in the box...but then you will probably be looking at a $350-$375 cross section kit...rather than $225.  Which w0uld not be an issue for some of you but most would just say no way....and I would not sell many kits.

 

But let me work on the "base" version first and I can always add other features once it is all done....for an extra price of course.  But I can tell you for sure that I wont be plating the kit or doing any masting and rigging.  I am sure you guys can cover that aspect and do a fantastic job of it on your own.

 

In fact I learned a lot about the market with the Cheerful and Barge kits.  So many people want so many different things its not possible that a kit that comes in a single box will satisfy everyone.  So like the Cheerful, I am thinking about oferring this Cross section in installments.  

 

- Base starter package with all framing parts and keel with build board

- Exterior details package - planking and details

-Interior details package - deck framing and fittings

-adition one-off extra upgrades - to come much later 

 

This way it will be possible for even just a small price that someone could buy the framing and just bash/scratch build everything else.  And it would be in everyones budget hopefully.

 

I am also considering breaking down the Barge kit into two or three installments for the same reason.   But for now I will keep it as is.  I really want to try and make this so you guys have the most options and wont balk at the price tag.   

 

I am not calling anyone in particular cheap....but just as an example...I have guys asking me if they can just buy 6 feet of rope or just five 1/4" single blocks so they dont have to spring for an entire package.   Its really crazy.  Because after cutting them a six feet portion I would be able to somehow sell the remaining 14' in my scratch and dent section.   I am surprised every day by the unusual requests and most are aimed at finding a way to save a few bucks. I get it...things are tough for some folks.  I am not trying to minimize this.  I am trying really hard to think outside the box within reason because you guys would be amazed how much this matters and the large number of requests I get.  But I just cant sell you five blocks at .40 cents each and mail them in a regular envelope with a 50 cent stamp so you wont have to pay the regular shipping.

[yvesvidal]

Chuck,

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your point of view and opinions. The suggestions for Mast/rigging and Copper plating was just to have it mapped on a piece of paper/plans or offered as supplement kit(s). 

 

Plastic Scale models today are offering a base, although very detailed, model to build. And then people spend fortunes buying the Photo-Etched kits and wooden decks. The cost of these extras is usually twice the cost of the base model.

 

I, for one, would be very happy with a base kit, laser cut and made of basswood. If you can offer more precious woods for $225-250, I am all game for it and will happily pay the price.

 

I also agree that a lot of things can be added later as it is done in the world of plastic scale modelling. Canons and extra parts can be procured relatively easily especially at the standard scale of 1/48th.

 

Please, let's not waste any time in sterile discussion and give us a base kit within the price range indicated. We will all be very happy.

 

Thanks

Yves

[dvm27]

For those who wish to mask , spar, and rig their ship You could always buy the plan we get for the few left. I got to tell you though  that you will  be changing your case from perhaps 8“ x 8” x 8” to 8“ x 25“ x 30+ inches! Pegasus transforms from that cute little desktop case to awkward object

[yvesvidal]

I believe there is beauty in all forms of Cross-sections: 

 

1) Just the hull presented as a precious Jewel: 

 

2) The intermediate approach: 

 

3) The Statement in its full glory: 

 

Yves

[MEDDO]

1 hour ago, yvesvidal said:

I believe there is beauty in all forms of Cross-sections: 

 

I also love all things sectioned.  All types of pieces and parts where you can see and explore the architectural details.  Cross sections, rigged or unrigged, half sections are particularly interesting.  I even like the stand alone bits of the ship such as stand alone models of capstans, masts, dockyard shears, semaphore towers, of course figureheads, and the like.   I think it all goes back to those books I had when I was a kid that showed the internal workings of how things are made. I have also shared those books and of course the TV show of the same name with my own kids. 

[G.L.]

2 hours ago, yvesvidal said:

I believe there is beauty in all forms of Cross-sections: 

1) Just the hull presented as a precious Jewel: 

 

Yves

Yves, I like very much the first one. Any idee what ship it is?

 

G.L.

[yvesvidal]

Most likely this picture is the Echo cross section from Admiralty Models. I do not remember exactly, but the picture comes from this forum.

 

Yves

[druxey]

You are correct, Yves!

[Kurt Johnson]

That’s a really classy model and presentation of it is perfect!

[svein erik]

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 7:05 PM, Chuck said:

I am not saying everyone is cheap or even mean to suggest Ives is. Please dont get the wrong idea.  I Just want to point that out right away.  His last two suggestions were just a good point to mention that things are getting a bit crazy and overwhelming with the wish lists.  I got this covered.  The kit will be a very nice project that is affordable and very easily upgraded.  Mostly each builder will be able to do so with the tons and tons of info out there on Pegasus.  Sure it would be much easier for most if I was able to do the extra work and put it all in the box...but then you will probably be looking at a $350-$375 cross section kit...rather than $225.  Which w0uld not be an issue for some of you but most would just say no way....and I would not sell many kits.

 

But let me work on the "base" version first and I can always add other features once it is all done....for an extra price of course.  But I can tell you for sure that I wont be plating the kit or doing any masting and rigging.  I am sure you guys can cover that aspect and do a fantastic job of it on your own.

 

In fact I learned a lot about the market with the Cheerful and Barge kits.  So many people want so many different things its not possible that a kit that comes in a single box will satisfy everyone.  So like the Cheerful, I am thinking about oferring this Cross section in installments.  

 

- Base starter package with all framing parts and keel with build board

- Exterior details package - planking and details

-Interior details package - deck framing and fittings

-adition one-off extra upgrades - to come much later 

 

This way it will be possible for even just a small price that someone could buy the framing and just bash/scratch build everything else.  And it would be in everyones budget hopefully.

 

I am also considering breaking down the Barge kit into two or three installments for the same reason.   But for now I will keep it as is.  I really want to try and make this so you guys have the most options and wont balk at the price tag.   

 

I am not calling anyone in particular cheap....but just as an example...I have guys asking me if they can just buy 6 feet of rope or just five 1/4" single blocks so they dont have to spring for an entire package.   Its really crazy.  Because after cutting them a six feet portion I would be able to somehow sell the remaining 14' in my scratch and dent section.   I am surprised every day by the unusual requests and most are aimed at finding a way to save a few bucks. I get it...things are tough for some folks.  I am not trying to minimize this.  I am trying really hard to think outside the box within reason because you guys would be amazed how much this matters and the large number of requests I get.  But I just cant sell you five blocks at .40 cents each and mail them in a regular envelope with a 50 cent stamp so you wont have to pay the regular shipping.

I agree with chuck,   if you by a car you cant ask for bying half the car👀😜

 

Svein.erik

[Chuck]

That Echo Cross section and how it is presented is exactly how I plan on presenting the Pegasus kit.  Literally the same.  One side planked and one side open framed.....Its beautiful.  

 

 

Chuck

[Captain Poison]

Chuck, I do not know if you already have a waiting list but I would love to have the kit #1..

Edited February 16, 2018 by Captain Poison

[Rustyj]

Y

17 hours ago, Captain Poison said:

Chuck, I do not know if you already have a waiting list but I would love to have the kit #1..

 

You and about 50 others of us.  Hey just number all the kits #1. That should take care of it.

[Jim Rogers]

Numbered Collectors Series with Authenticity papers signed by Chuck.   And the price of poker just went up. Just kidding.

[Chuck]

There will be three different types of frames.  All with slight variations of my frame design concept.  You have seen the first which is the typical square frame.  This second type which are are only four or 5 have shifted top timbers....or bent top timbers.  It is built very similar to the last frame I described and will be described in full in the instructions.  It is shown below with the bent top timber. The other thing you might notice in this photo is the laser etched notches on the frame for the port sill and lintel framing.  This should make adding the port sills easier although if you would like to, you can adjust the notch shape so it looks more like the traditional fish tail shape you see and expect.  It all depends on how much realism you want to add depending on your experience.  The other interesting pieces are the two notched registration strips that will span across the top of all the frames.  I didnt see this on other fully framed projects and I thought it would be a nice addition.  This is going to be very different than the stylized framing ala Hahn.

 

The third and final frame style will be those that are broken with a space to accommodate the gun ports.  I will be designing it so they can remain in one piece until after you insert the port sills and lintels.  This will make more sense after I show pictures.  This last version of my frame concept will be up next so I want to finalize the testing and get it done soon.

 

You can see the bent frames and "broken or split" frames in this 3 d rendering.  I am working from aft towards the bow so the next two frames will be those broken frames to accommodate the gun ports

 

 

 

 

Chuck

[Kurt Johnson]

Chuck, 

I still can’t figure out how you can be working on several projects at the same time from a design stand point. The fact that you can is great for us, but Pegasus is so much more important. 

 

Kurt

[Chuck]

Its not really the case.  The Winnie is already designed and finished.  Its all about just building it now with maybe some minor tweaks.  No heavy lifting needed.  This one on the other hand is such a new concept for me since I never built a fully framed anything.  I could have gone the same easy route that most go and just do a hahn style project but that is nothing new at all.  So the brain challenge drafting and designing these elements as developed by David Antscherl is just as much fun as building the Winnie.  I am very grateful that it isnt the full hull.  Once I finalize the three slightly different frame design concepts for these three different styles of frame I will be in good shape.  Then its just rinse and repeat......and I only have one more left to tinker with......

 

Today at my shop the guys all came over and I handed out some laser cut frames to them so they can build them at home.  You missed that today but next time you come I will give you a few.  Its great having a bunch of testors  ready and available so I can watch them assemble my crazy contraptions while I observe any problem areas that might prop up.  So far so good.   I believe Larry will be building this prototype alongside me and I will be getting him started in a couple of weeks......its a huge help with the entire process  and fun for me to watch.  Mike brought his Winnie too!!!  Which looks great.

[Kurt Johnson]

So in the end the model can be built to the same level of detail as an Antscherl