Chuck

MANDATORY MUST READ
**Banned Kit Manufacturers on MSW - Pirated KITS Prohibited **

195 posts in this topic

I also fully support this site's position, and Chuck's view that principle is the key.  Sharing an unrelated story that has relevance - I used to work at Microsoft, you are probably aware that software piracy in China is probably the worst on earth and a real issue that Microsoft had very openly criticized at the highest levels.  On a particular trip a number of senior people were visiting the offices there, and subsequently rolled off the plane carrying a whole array of fake Gucci handbags, 'Swiss' watches etc.  Once this became known this was quite rightly dealt with by the highest levels in the company for the unacceptable personal behavior demonstrated even though it had zero financial impact, it was a matter of principle.

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Welcome all. First of all I didn't have any idea that even in model building world piracy exist! Now about software (been a "pirate" as well when you have 16-20-and only income is some spare from parents while games cost fortune (not proud of that)). Other think is, even I was first looking around what kind of model to start as my first and looking at a site like e-bay, polish site Allegro or dutch maarktplaats wasn't even in my mind, so I feel sorry for the people who want to start such a great hobby by buying in those sources without noticing in some more specialized sites/forums! And if you don't agree to those rules....well nobody is holding you here by force and better move on.

WackoWolf and mtaylor like this

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If you want to be a member here then you have to accept the rules.

 

If you want to see new models in the future then you have to support those who put in the time to develop them and not those who just steal their hard work.

 

(I had to smile at the bit on the ZHL ebay sales complaining about others who have been putting their models on there for sale - pot meet kettle)

SkerryAmp and mtaylor like this

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As a complete novice to this hobby, let me say thank you for the warning, I too will support the ban/boycott.

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If Vietnam has not been added do so.  Noted many fine looking completed ships advertised on E.bay..  No mention of country of origin.

And all your buying is a picture.. The item itself is a cheap reproduction.  I have a suspicion the pictures were obtained from a museum.

Just suspicious.. Beware.

"Woody"

PrimoDude

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WOW, I was totally oblivious to this. I will make sure and not purchase any of the counterfeit kits. Thanks for the heads up Chuck.

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Good thing to ban the cheap rip-off brands from the forum. As I am a newbie also. It is good to be warned about this.

Although I prefer to buy everything throughout my local shop. Service is great and only top products are sold. Small price to pay to be sure not to get ripped off :-).

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I recently read a post on this forum where a brand new member was asking outright for plans which had been "lost."   They were asking for copies to be sent to them in China.   Not wanting to step out of bounds, but that seemed a bit odd and frankly, a bit suspicious.  

 

Just wondering what policy/practice there might be here on the forum for providing such things?   I could see where there might be good reason to need copies...   but isnt it easy enough to get them from the manufacturer?

geoff and piperjoe like this

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Not good at all.   Please do hit the report button or notify a staff member when you see that.   We cant stop folks from sending an original set to someone but if they ask another member to copy the plans we will delete the post and issue a warning.  Do you remember which post/topic it was.   Its tough for the staff to see every post.

WackoWolf and geoff like this

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Not good at all.   Please do hit the report button or notify a staff member when you see that.   We cant stop folks from sending an original set to someone but if they ask another member to copy the plans we will delete the post and issue a warning.  Do you remember which post/topic it was.   Its tough for the staff to see every post.

 

Good to know.  Unfortunately I do not recall which build log it was, I do remember it being a build log.   I was perusing and just came across it, the notion struck me as a bit suspicious, but being new myself didnt really want to go around flagging other people.   If I come across it again Ill be sure to let you know.  

 

Thanks.  

 

EDIT:  Turns out a keyword search of "China" brought me right to it.   Its the last post...

 

Thread title:  "USS Constitution Cross Section by MTC37 - Mamoli - Scale 1:93"

piperjoe likes this

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I'm adding to the banned list anyting from Alice Papermodels.   A quick Google indicates that they are a huge pirate site.

maturin and WackoWolf like this

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Hi Everyone,

 

This may be a bit off-topic but when I think and see copyright infringement it make me see red. Theft of ideas is reprehensible. To my mind what makes it worse is that so much of it comes from from China. I studied Foreign Service and International Economics with a concentration on China.

 

Here you have a 5000 year old culture which was on the forefront of technology and political organization for centuries. Its people are extremely hard working, diligent, and entrepreneurial. With generations of a Centralized Communist Government It now seems to have denigrated to a giant slave camp depending on outside ideas to survive. Like I said, it's a shame.

 

Best,

Steve

WackoWolf likes this

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Steve.

They have good ideas and products they develop.  Unfortunately, the laws regarding copyright are, shall we say, rather lax in that there's protection unless it's a product from a "native".  There's a couple of gentlemen that have popped up recently trying to copyright software by some of the biggest names in the industry.  Only protests from the governments involved made the China government not issue the copyright/patent.

 

Hopefully, things there (and in a couple of other countries) will change.

 

Anyway, let's let the politics of this die here and hope folks using this site will not patronize the banned companies.

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While I am just getting started in wooden ship modeling, I will not only support this ban by not displaying kits by these manufacturers, I pledge not to buy any of their products as well.

mtaylor, WackoWolf, foxy and 2 others like this

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not just kits... look at all the unimat classic copies you can get!!

 

I work in engineering and am constantly battling with both China and India to stop them putting untested parts into our system... 'copyright' means 'copy it pretty closely'...using material that is also close but not right. :rolleyes:

 

Patents/copyrights have been infringed since 500 BC, so its nothing new... You can occassionally do something about it, but it is difficult and usually has to be done through customs and litigation, which most of us can't afford.

 

if you really want to scare yourself, go to alibaba.com... mixed up with pirated kits, there is possibly some genuine original stuff..... but I doubt it. It will no doubt treble the list of banned suppliers already here!

You could probably even buy a copy of your other half if you looked hard enough...hopefully it would be a bad copy that didnt nag when you left the dining room table covered with sawdust...or is that a good copy... :D 

bjamesjr likes this

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Thanks for the heads up, on companies to avoid.  I was down at Pep Boys the other day, and saw a chinese reproduction of an old briggs and stratton mini bike.  Was tempted, but my conscious got the better of me.

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Hi, I would like to show my support for your ban on these manufacturers.

I would also like to add, it's also good to support your local stores. You will get much better help and service from a person working in a hobby shop, if you purchased your kit there! Just think of the poor shopkeeper who deals with people coming in and asking for help or replacement wood for a kit they purchased on Ebay. I wouldn't blame them for telling you to get knicked and come back when you feel like supporting them.

I have found this with several types of businesses, people buy from cheaper sources and expect the shops that specialize in the products to then help them.

Good luck to these people with getting a friendly response.

Happy Ship Building to All, Scott.

catopower, Dan Vad and Citadel Sean like this

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Crap! I'm 24 hours into a build of the "Nina" that i bought from Amazon,and it turns out it one of these knock off's! I think it'sa TCM kit, looks rxactly like the Amanti kit, but really poor wood,parts and instructions.

 

I both hate to and am glad to toss thiss kit.

 

Thanks for yhis thread.

Chuck and mtaylor like this

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I would not toss this kit. You have already unwittingly supported these pirates, so why not build the kit. If the materials are crap, replace them with good materials and try and make a silk purse from a souse ear.

 

 

Mike

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Hi;

 

I am glad I found this list! I wont support this companies, I am myself a designer and I know how piracy affect us. I do not design ship models of course, I am more a mechanical designer.

 

On the other hand I have a question:

 

I want to build this halcon kit from ZHL models but of course I wont buy it from them. What I want is to see if someone can tell me Who's the legit manufacturer of this ship and the real name of this ship (if it's different)

 

Link for reference only:

Link removed because they are blood sucking crooks.

 

Thanks in advance:

 

Juan

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Its the 

Artesania Latina harvey kit.  Both are actually pretty bad...but AL is the original designer and the rip off is even worse.

 

 

 

Chuckmaquette-de-bateau-historique-artesania-

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This may have been covered earlier, but nevertheless. Does, or should the ban on Chinese kits include model junks?.

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Dont understand the question......

 

Its not the subject matter...its the kit manufacturer......yes they are junk....but if you have a chinese junk done by a reputal non pirate company then you will be OK.

 

Chuck

popeye the sailor and docidle like this

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Thanks for your response Chuck, and I do agree with the central premise of the thread, that rip off, pirate kits should not be considered, both from the perspective of the stealing of designs / plans etc, and also from the quality perspective. It just struck me that the Chinese Junk is exactly that, Chinese!. I guess I was being flippant!!.. Regards: John.

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Probably this has already been mentioned, but here goes.

I suspect a lot of traffic for knock-offs comes from people doing an internet search for a kit.  If they see the same (seemingly) kit for two prices, they would tend to go with the less expensive.  If the pirated goods were represented by the original artwork, etc., to the uninitiated the two products would be indistinguishable.

I saw (on the internet, see above) some time ago a firm in (I believe it was) Australia that was offering for sale a massive variety of plans.  I wonder if anybody remembers this firm and if this would be included in the black list of pirated goods.

At my work there was a company offering low cost parts.  Some might be OK, but I always shied away from anything involving heat treating or metallurgy as I believe it isn't possible to buy a part and measure and copy it down to the molecular level with the same results as OEM.

Canute and mtaylor like this

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Bravo!

Thank you for sending these rip-off artists overboard and for identifying them by name. I doubt any reputable dealers would peddle their junk but I see these popping up on eBay every so often.

Don

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The Artesania Latina Harvey kit isn't a bad kit if you aren't looking for a museum quality product when finished, which you will not achieve from a kit to begin with. But if you are just looking for a nice model when finished the AL kit will serve you well as long as you understand from the beginning that buying a kit is just the beginning of the build and how nice the finished product is will be up to how much work and time you are willing to put into the build. I've built better than thirty kits over the years and happy to say that I have never come across a bad kit from any manufacture. What I have found is, the cheaper the kit the worse the materials will be and the more expensive the better the materials seem to be. What I have found is that you can usually put lipstick and a bit of rouge on a pig and make it look acceptable, but only YOU will know under all that rouge and lipstick that she is still a pig.  

:rolleyes:, That's what I love about modeling.

 

Mike  

reilly, Canute, gjdale and 2 others like this

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