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I got some AYC from Chuck and I am using it on a new model and I love the stuff.  In my case the model is of a 1890 era canal boat primarily made of White Oak for which I am using Birch - dead ringer at 1/2" = 1' To White Oak.  There is also a lot of Yellow Pine used on the boat and the AYC looks perfect in place of Yellow Pine on this model.

I was very impressed with the ease of using the AYC as it cuts great on either my Preac or Bynes saws and finishes nicely.  I bought a couple of sheets from Chuck and after actually using a bit of it ordered a bunch more - it will be stocked in my shop going forward.

And as usual Chuck delivered it quickly and well packeaged.

Kurt

Kurt Van Dahm

Director

NAUTICAL RESEARCH GUILD

www.thenrg.org

SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS

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Butch O'Hare - IPMS

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It may bear noting that Alaska yellow cedar is one of those wood species that is known by many different non-scientific names. Thus, sourcing is outside of its range may be made more difficult if you don't ask for it by the right name. First off, it's not a cedar at all, but rather a cypress. It's known as Nootka cypress, yellow cypress, Alaska cypress, Pacific Coast cedar, Nootka cedar, yellow cedar, Alaska cedar, and Alaska yellow cedar. If you are googling for it, you might try some of its other commercial names, although it is most popularly called Alaska yellow cedar.

 

Unfortunately, AYC is becoming harder to source for a variety of reasons. 1) Most of it that's commercially logged is sold locally in the Pacific Northwest, where it is still readily available. 2) It's often found in areas which are difficult (i.e. expensive) to access for logging operations. 3) It's dying off throughout much of its range due to climate change and is being considered for classification as endangered. 4) Asian demand for AYC for fine woodwork sends a lot of it off as export. 5) AYC plantation forestry has only just begun to be studied and it more of a challenge than commercial cultivation of other lumber species. 6) AYC is very slow-growing, with a lifespan of well over a thousand years.

 

It is the winter snowpack that insulates the shallow and fine root systems of AYC trees from freezing. With the snow pack becoming thinner each year, the tree roots are more exposed to cold snaps which freeze their fine root systems close to the surface and kill the trees. Photos of large stands of dead AYC would make you cry, but the good news is that the dead timber is as good for lumber as the fresh for at least 90 years, and perhaps more even. Again, AYC's growing terrain makes commercial harvesting less attractive than more accessible lumber species.

 

Yellow-cedar_range_and_decline_map.jpg

 

The good news is that while it is considered somewhat rare outside of its natural range, there is plenty of it available in the Pacific Northwest lumberyards. The bad news is that it will cost to ship it elsewhere. I've worked with AYC planking and decking wooden boats and I'm sad to say the offcuts went into the yard dumpster or home for the fireplace. (It's also one of the best fire woods known.) I wish I'd taken more of it for my own "lumberyard" than I did when I had the chance. 

 

alaska-yellow-cedar-Jim-and-Brad-1.jpg

 

http://patlbr.com/cedar/

 

 

 

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Thanks for that explanation Bob. Very interesting. I love the wood and have quite a stock of it but really knew very little about it. 

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Interesting map.  I note from a local standpoint that there's a "pocket" at the Oregon/California border that looks very close to home.   The terrain down here where much of the commercial lumbering happens (or has happened) is usually pretty mountainous so the timber folks would be used to the problems.  Maybe I should check with a friend who does firewood commercially and see if he's seen it?

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Mark,

While you are at it, there is another strictly "local" species to investigate =  Madrone.

It - when seasoned correctly - sounds near perfect for our use.  It is supposedly like, but superior to, Pear.

Reading on the sites of the area mills that sell it - but only to walk in trade -  it is a bear to season correctly.

Apparently some have developed  a way to effectively kiln dry it.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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Bob Thank you for your explanation of the AYC it clarified a question that has been on my mind for some time. The model of Skipjack that I am building which was one of the launches built for Andrew Mellon in 1909 was planked in "Yellow Cyprus" now that mystery is solved. I shall have to check for some local AYC suppliers.

 

Michael

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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Thank you for the detailed information, Bob. Certainly it is nice to carve (I've used it for half hulls), but the fine dust produced when sawing or sanding is a serious issue to control. One person I know has become allergic to yellow cedar.

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

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11 hours ago, Jaager said:

Mark,

While you are at it, there is another strictly "local" species to investigate =  Madrone.

It - when seasoned correctly - sounds near perfect for our use.  It is supposedly like, but superior to, Pear.

Reading on the sites of the area mills that sell it - but only to walk in trade -  it is a bear to season correctly.

Apparently some have developed  a way to effectively kiln dry it.

 

I had some madrone and I agree, it's a bear to season without checking, cracking, etc.  The few pieces I managed where beautiful to work with.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Mark,


Sustainable Northwest Wood
2701 SE 14th Ave, Portland, OR 97202

 

They have 4x4 and 8x4 Madrone lumber - they anywhere near you?

 

By the way, I left a price quote inquiry for AYC with a lumber yard on your side of the continent, no joy today

maybe the holiday?

 

Edited by Jaager

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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They're at the north end of Oregon.  I'm at the south.   I'll look them up.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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From the database:

 

Workability: Northern White Cedar has good overall working characteristics, and works easily with both hand and machine tools. However, the wood is both soft and weak, giving it poor screw-holding capabilities. Northern White Cedar glues and finishes well.
Perhaps the closest thing to Balsa that the United States has domestically, Northern White Cedar is one of the very lightest and softest of commercially available woods in the country

 

In your place, I would give it a try,  You might be surprised.   As far as how AYC relates to other species that are named Cedar - the answer is probably:

not so much.

 

A relative gave me 3 logs of Aromatic Cedar,  I think I will process them into billets and see what is there.  I gravitate to hard, but I have used Tulip Poplar with success.  I am impressed with how tall, wide and straight this tree grows.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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  • 2 months later...

Finally got around to cutting wood.   And I'm pretty darn happy with the Yellow Cedar on the laser.   Cut's clean, a bit of smoke here and there and after making some test cuts, Chuck's advice about low power and slow speed are spot on.  It just took some testing to find out low the power could go.

 

Anyway, here's the pictures of 1/32" sheet cut for planking my "large" ship's boat.  First one is the topside of the sheet, and the second shows the bottom sides with some splotches where it appears that some sap "popped". I've seen this in other woods, so wasn't surprised by it.

13-e.JPG.b9b7f13579d484628d084228cee1974c.JPG

13-f.JPG.bf3fecb69975940a2d63ca8f2d89cc3d.JPG

 

Edit:  Note to self, order more Cedar....

 

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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  • 1 year later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/21/2020 at 8:56 PM, Tony Hunt said:

How does Alaskan Yellow Cedar compare to the other legendary boat-building timber of the Pacific North-west, namely Port Orford Cedar?

 

I've never seen either In Australia but I'd love to try them.

Port Orford cedar is closely related to Alaska Yellow cedar. Both species are actually cypresses. POC is also known as Lawson's Cypress. POC is a light brown color which darkens some with age. AYC is, as one might expect, yellow. Their structural characteristics, straight grain, and good decay resistance are roughly comparable.

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5 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

Port Orford cedar is closely related to Alaska Yellow cedar. Both species are actually cypresses. POC is also known as Lawson's Cypress. POC is a light brown color which darkens some with age. AYC is, as one might expect, yellow. Their structural characteristics, straight grain, and good decay resistance are roughly comparable.

Would Port Orford cedar be a good choice for model ship building also? Is it readily available?

 

Bob

Bob Garcia

"Measure once, cuss twice!"

 

Current Builds: 

Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models

Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28

 

Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, BobG said:

Would Port Orford cedar be a good choice for model ship building also? Is it readily available?

 

Bob

Port Orford cedar is readily available, but probably a special order item outside of the Pacific Coast. As for model building, I'm sure it's entirely suitable, save for appearance. POC's rings are more pronounced than AYC's and it wouldn't be the best choice if one was intending to finish the model bright. The POC would appear out of scale. Best to go with AYC selected to have very light rings. If the model were to be painted, of course, I don't think there's a lot of difference, really. POC can tend to have a coarser grain than AYC, but a lot depends on particular piece of wood.

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  • 1 year later...

Just a quick photo of work that has been sitting in a dark corner for many years.  this is Alaskan yellow cedar on my cross section after mellowing and finding its aged color and tone.  It has been sitting on dark shelf for almost four years. No dents….just dusty but it has taken on a warm amber color after using only wipe on poly.  Thought I would post as I was pleasantly surprised.  
 

63432E1F-EB93-4F51-9A43-58E8A04A64B0.jpeg
 

161314E4-61C9-4D5F-A045-944208F33683.jpeg

compare to the color and tone when I was building it four years ago.

 

inboardfairingtabremovaltest.jpg

 

 

 

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My Alaskan Yellow Cedar built Cheerful is already starting to "mellow" like Chuck's Photo - It catches a little sunset light from a window across the room and I just marvel at how it appears - I love the stuff and will be building Winchelsea from more of it...a lot more...

Regards,

Glenn

 

Current Build: HMS Winchelsea
Completed Builds: HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter CheerfulLady NelsonAmati HMS Vanguard,  
HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose

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Here’s what mine looks like after 20 years. It’s been out of the sunlight in a dark closet and I used a light wipe of tung oil. The Alaskan Cedar really has a warm golden glow to it. Very pleased. Some day I’ll finish this project. Watching Chuck’s fine Winchelsea and Cheerful kits and tutorials are motivating me to start again. 
 

 

E3F476D7-002F-4145-BC7D-340A34D815B8.jpeg

D8B69B35-706D-4401-85D2-450EA283AF07.jpeg

2A28BEB8-E6FB-435F-807F-81737A1113C4.jpeg

 

 

 

Able bodied seaman, subject to the requirements of the service.

"I may very well sink, but I'm damned if I'll Strike!" JPJ

 

My Pacific Northwest Discovery Series:

On the slipways in the lumberyard

Union, 1792 - 1:48 scale - POF Scratch build

18th Century Longboat - circa 1790 as used in the PNW fur trade - FINISHED

 

Future Builds (Wish List)

Columbia Redidiva, 1787

HM Armed Tender Chatham, 1788

HMS Discovery, 1789 Captain Vancouver

Santiago, 1775 - Spanish Frigate of Explorer Bruno de Hezeta

Lady Washington, 1787 - Original Sloop Rig

 

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I saw this topic and found it interesting, specially with the AYC "corridor" where I live.

So I did a search and found so many mills nearby providing this amazing wood.

Yes, I did buy some sheets from Chuck and love the quality and hue of color.

 

Please, visit our Facebook page!

 

Respectfully

 

Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics 
593661798_Keepitreal-small.jpg.f8a2526a43b30479d4c1ffcf8b37175a.jpg

Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan

Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS

Viking funeral: Harley almost a Harvey

Nautical Research Guild Member - 'Taint a hobby if you gotta hurry

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