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recently I bought the Revell kit of the U.S.S. Arizona,  1:426 scale.   I thought it an odd scale,  but the box is rather large,  and that it would build to a large model.  getting it home,  I noticed that there really isn't a lot of parts to the model,  only about 133.   hey.....what the heck,  the dating on the outside of the box.....2017......could be a new offering by Revell {a model of this vessel I built in the past was smaller than this one......but that was a long time ago}.   I've been doing some searching around for addons.....all I've found so far is PE from Gold Medal...but it's at 1:429 scale....a typo maybe.   the worst is yet to come.......molded railings...what a let down!   I see modifications in my future.

   another aspect that is strange are the planes.   other models I've seen,  had single fixed wing aircraft {Vought OS2U Kingfisher's}......but the model supplies bi planes....Nieuport 28C-1's.   intrigued me at first that they were not amphibious at first.....I'm sure that after the modifications in 1929, seaplanes came into use.  looking on the site,  I find that there are no logs on this vessel.  i wonder if it's because of her sad history.   any ideas?

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That is an old kit. It has been around for over 40 years, probably longer. Just because it has 2017 on the box or instructions does not mean that it is a newly designed kit. They have been making the kit off the same moulds for all those years. 

 

Russ

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Pursuant to Russ's comment, I built that kit sometime around 1970/71 when I was a kid. Those odd Revell scales, such as 1/426, I believe are what are known as "box scales", i.e. the kit was designed to fit into a particular-sized box. Model Shipways did the same thing with some of their old yellow-box kits.

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As far as the planes go, Revell actually has the correct planes--SOC-3 Seagulls. (I don't think it got the Kingfishers until 1941, I believe they were off of the ship at the time of the attack) The floats are actually attached to the catapults.  Those need to be cut off and attached to the aircraft if you use the GMM set, which is the right scale--I recommend it very highly.  If you want to make Kingfishers, the 1956-vintage molds are blobby enough that you can just cut off the struts for the top wings and re-carve the canopy slightly.

 

The railings definitely need to be cut off, it will improve the model considerably.  I started one a long time ago, it's been sitting unfinished on my "shelf of shame" for over a decade.  Maybe if you start kicking butt on yours, it would give me the impetus to drag mine back out and do something with it...

 

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thanks for the replies gents.......I didn't get to finish my initial post before I got ushered out the door.   admirals are an impatient lot ;) 

 

thanks Kurt...I'll look into the link.

 

that is what I realized Russ,  after reading a couple of forum threads on other sites.   it is from the old Revell / Monogram molds...all they did is revise the instructions {2011},  and update the box art.   I did a parts check today for when I start a log,  and I was a bit disappointed with how 'simplified' the kit is.   the hull measures 16 inches long........I do recall building a smaller version of this kit.  then again,  what did I expect,  the kit only cost $22.99.

 

I should have thought of that Chris.......back in the day,  these odd scales were quite common.  I have a kit of the Santa Maria by Revell that was produced back in the 60's........there is no scale listed,  but I estimate it to be around 1:89 scale.   oldmodelkits.com is a great place to find these old kits.......I use the place to walk down memory lane  ;)    they get into the history of the kit too,  which I find very interesting.

 

I though the same thing about the planes.......one thing about looking at images online......not every picture pertains to the ship your looking for.....so I click on the questionable picture to confirm this.  the Pennsylvania class battleships were built a little too early for single fixed wing aircraft.......they weren't even amphibious.

   the Nieuport was used in 1920.

Nieuport.thumb.jpg.1cc78f07f0fb546e004956c4b2209cb6.jpg

5b2c8205b7ced_takeoff.thumb.jpg.677de438752245846b2680295335a990.jpg

these are a couple of pictures from  http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/39a.htm      note the launch bar attached to the landing gear.   the Seagull replaced the Nieuport around 1935.......the single fixed wing aircraft came into use around 1941.  thanks for correcting me on the plane.......likely the first thing I read and I went with it  ;)    another thing I noticed was the lack of decals for the planes......I will have to find some or make 'em.

     while skimming through forum sites,  I read about the color scheme.   I've always been under the assumption that the hull was gray.......battleship gray....or gunship gray.   the forum went into detail about the color indicating that a Mediterranean Blue was used......this was later corrected to a light sea blue.  the decks were a wood tan or brown,  and the tripod masts and fire directional towers were a light gray {I've seen them in flat white}.

    the tops of the #1,  #2 &  #4 turrets were painted flat red.......the #4 turret denoted the division the ship was in.  the division color list runs like this

 

Div #1 - red

Div #2 - white

Div #3 - blue

Div #4 - black

Div #5 - yellow

 

I also read an interesting article that shows how to do striated two tone decks.......if I can find it,  I will post the link.   it looks like a pain to do,  but the finished product looks super.   thanks for your input Bob........thanks you all :)   I hope we can add to this thread,  since there is no information here on the Arizona.   if anyone else want to build this vessel,  they will have something to go on.   not sure when I'll start the log on her Bob......I'll be more than happy to take the blame,  I caused you to bring 'er back to the table

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Posted (edited)

Just to muddy the water a little Denis

 

"The first 54 Kingfishers were delivered to the U.S. Navy beginning in August 1940 and six had been assigned to the Pearl Harbor-based Battle Force before the end of the same year."

It does not say which ships got the Kingfishers. before the end of 1940 and does not say if the Pacific fleet received any more over the next twelve months. Almost  all the older cruisers continued to use the SOC-3 Seagull for the remainder of the war with some of the planes being taken out of retirement and reissued to fill the need.

If you were building the Pennsylvania then there are pictures that show she had a Kingfishers later in the war. When they were installed is another matter.


Vought_OS2U_Kingfisher_Ready_for_Launch_aboard_Battleship_USS_Pennsylvania_BB-38_1943.thumb.jpg.feee44352705f1f22fa1acee1c2afdec.jpg
Vought OS2U Kingfisher ready for launch aboard Battleship USS Pennsylvania BB-38 1943

3Kd7Ugh.thumb.jpg.e0dfc8ec92cf83c814e387cc5a41d8cb.jpg

USS Pennsylvania BB-38 12 AUG 1945. It is clear that now she is equipped with a Curtis Seahawk 

Edited by lmagna
picture

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I'm aware of that Lou........since the kit supplies the seagulls,  I'll go with the pre 1935 look.  I was looking through the link that Kurt gave me {us},  and in a few of the galleries I looked in,  the Kingfisher was shown,  as well as the seahawk.   

 

hello Chris.....patience my friend.........I'll be back on the Tumbl'in Dice soon.   got a lot of windows to make,  as well as the stairs,  so it will be a slow start  ;) 

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I suspect that the Seagulls are correct for the Arizona anyway. With so few Kingfisher aircraft being released to the fleet she probably never got any of the upgraded aircraft, especially the Seahawk as it did not come out until much later in the war.

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The Seagulls are correct for her. I did a fair amount of research on the Arizona when I built my RC Warship version (1991), even got the plans from the (I forget now the real name), nation Navel archives.

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the Seahawks were the replacement for the Kingfishers.  the Arizona had Kingfishers by 1941,  but as Bob pointed out,  they were not on board when Pearl Harbor was attacked.   there was another plane in between all this.......the Seamew,  but these planes were unreliable and were not used for very long.

 

did you get any upgrade part for your model Bob?   where did you find them?   all I've found so far are the gun barrels.....I wasn't planning to replace them,  since they don't look much different than the plastic ones.   I was looking at Scaledecks.com   but it seems that you can't order from their site....they rely on selling through E-Bay and the like.  so,  I've been looking through there.

 

did you do any form of upgrades Ron?  you can post pictures here if you want.......love to see her  ;) 

 

looking at the hull again........I noticed that it was very warped,  after cleaning up the mating edges.  the molds that were used are very old.......the edges were rough and not defined as would be expected.  I decided to assemble the hull,  cementing in three stages..........the bow {clamp}........the stern,  capturing the rudder at the same time {clamp}........and then squeezing the mid ship together and taping it closed,  making adjustments until it was fully joined together.  then I ran a bead of cement down the seam,  using pieces of sprue as cross pieces.  when I start the log,  I'll show what I did.  it's been drying all night.....I'll look at it later.

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went looking through E-bay again......only seeing the gun barrels.......things were look'in bleak.  then I saw a PE set from Tom's Model Works.......has the catapults and the crane.......and a bunch of other stuff.  I couldn't tell what scale it was......wouldn't let me zoom in on the item.  I saw a 1:400 set, and I sort of bounced between the two.   instead of going any further,  I looked up the website.  what I had found was definitely 1:426!  I was happy........kinda low on the price though,  I hope it has everything.  I also need the railings.  I pulled the trigger on it........signing in on the website,  and leaving a question about wooden decks.  I'll see what I get  ;)    the scavenger hunt has begun!

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yea......I noticed that........even for the Academy kit and the minicraft.   let me know when you start the log on her.  hopefully,  it will spark me to bring mine back out.   

 

I can confirm what was mentioned about this kit coming from the old Revell / Monogram molds.   I was sizing down some pictures of the hull after I had assembled it.  as I mentioned,  the kit is produced in China,  and they didn't even have the G.D. common courtesy to put their logo where it won't be seen on the ship { Revell had that nasty habit too on their older models {another hint}.  I didn't pay much mind then......but I got a good look at it tonight........1959! 

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4 minutes ago, popeye the sailor said:

let me know when you start the log on her

Not anytime soon I'm afraid, (Don't tell the Admiral know) I don't do nearly as well in multi tasking as you do! Right now If I'm not working on the Providence I'm trying to figure out HOW to work on the Providence!:huh: I think I am in a do and redo cycle right now undoing more than I'm doing, or EVERYTHING I'm doing!:default_wallbash:

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are you think of too many things at once?   bashing ........or coming up with the ideas for the direction you want to go can vary.  it's that way for me.......some,  I can get a clear direction.......others take a bit of time.  I'll work on another project until an idea comes to mind,  and then I go to apply it.   I usually hope that more ideas come to mind,  so I can continue and keep it on the table for a while.  once you get a clear direction,  you'll have a foundation to work from.

 

I got the first PE installment today from Tom's Modelworks..........that was fast delivery! :) 

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I mostly have a clear direction in mind but sometimes the execution takes a left turn or in the latest case the clear path direction became a bit clouded forcing a fork in the road for a while. It's all pretty much cleared up now so hopefully I will see some progress now.

 

It was pretty much the same for me. I ordered PE from Toms and Gold Metal Models at the same time. Tom's stuff got here three days before the Gold Metal stuff did and Gold Metal is something like 75 miles with a ferryboat ride from where I live!

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gotta talk to the budget director again.........I should have looked in gold medal.   they have the PE with the railings...pretty much the complete set for $30.00 {minus shipping}.   I just got the catapults and cranes from Tom's.....she's gonna flip!   to keep damage control to a minimum,  I can simply order a sheet of railings {close to the scale,  if I can't find 1:426}.

 

I have been hunting for the forum where I saw the unique way the decks were painted,  but I can't seen to nail it down.   I have an idea of what the gentleman did,  so I'm considering trying it for myself.  I can't believe that for a kit this old,  no one has marketed a wooden deck kit for it.......1:350......1:200....no problem....but for 1:426....a big goose egg!  also........the more I read about this sea blue thing......I'm getting the nagging feeling that the info is not totally correct.   I have a few of the lighter colored blues in my paint inventory.......and I have serious doubts that they painted the ship in this color.   I may experiment with tinting sea blue with a medium gray,  and see what I get.  from the different colors I've been seeing,  I'm more inclined to think that there is a grayish quality to it. 

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Posted (edited)

Several years ago Don Pruel, (sp?) model maker at the U S Naval Academy museum published an article in the Nautical Research Journal about the Arizona paint scheme.  Don built the model on display at the USS Arizona visitors center at Pearl Harbor.  Don’s article is specifically about the ship’s appearance at the time of the attack but you might find some information about her earlier appearance too.

 

Roger

Edited by Roger Pellett

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Not sure about any camo Ken........I haven't read anything that suggests that she had any.

 

I read an article about that Roger

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/12/07/news/story04.html

 

I found additional info here

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/39a.htm

 

I'll look into it more as I go along.   I'm old school......the traditional grays and such.  I even read a forum discussion about the different paint numbers.  when I get to building her,  it's gonna be very interesting ;)   thanks for the links......I'll look into those too.

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Denis, the US ships began to be painted in camouflage schemes before Pearl Harbor. The pictures around the day of the attack show most of the battleships in MS-1, which is all dark except for the upper levels of the masts and spotting tops in a lighter gray. The NRJ article can be an excellent resource for that. And this is an extensive thread (99 pages) for Arizona on the Ship Model Forum of the ModelWarships.com site: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12942

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hello Ken........sorry I haven't gotten back to you.   I've been preoccupied with other things,  and I haven't been online much over the week end.  yes.....I'm aware that camo has been around......I've not read anything concerning the Arizona having any.   so far,  I've seen her in various grays.....and of course,  in the Mediterranean / sea blue {these two colors keep popping up.   I appreciate the link you gave me......lots of really cool sub links,  as well as a very long list of completed models.   I've looked at some of them........in a couple of the models,  I detected a grayish variation in the blue {which I think is a little more accurate,  in my opinion}.   I've even seen some .......WOW......they look like they were done in a neon blue  :D    I think I will try and stay away from that sort of tint.

arizona.jpg.1ef4d8937281406da5b83a81e2edc104.jpg

I knew about the light gray tops.   I'm going to be experimenting with Ghost gray and gunship gray,  in regards to the bluish tint.  when I start the log...by then,  I'm sure I will have something.  it won't look this blue ;)    thanks for the links..something more to look through.

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No sweat, Denis; I'm in the same boat with respect to available time.

 

If you delve into USN camo, you need 2 different mixes. One more grayish (early war), some more purplish (late war).

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Denis,

I do recall that the red tops of the turrets was the real deal.  I'm just not sure what the period was.   This may have been a standard that they discarded before Pearl Harbor.

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I found a couple of neat sites today Ken

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/S19-7/PearlHarborBatDivMarkings.html

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/warship_camouflage.htm

as early as 1913,  battle ships were painted in the standard gray w/ white tops.   from what I gleaned,  when the Arizona had her refit {the weird tops and masts were replaced with the tripod masts and tops},  she got a bluish gray paint job.    I hope this is correct,  because it gives an almost complete list of all the divisions.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BatDiv

 

another site I found today,  spoke of the paint,  and kinda confirms what I've been thinking.   there very well could have been a special paint mix.   I'm going to try and find this paint: French dark Blue Gray  {Modelmaster 2105}.   of course,  it also has to be taken into consideration that water reflection,  and fading may also play a roll in the exact color.  it's hard to know since the Navy destroyed information on the Arizona in 1944.

 

the markings on the turret tops was likely used from 1917 until after Pearl Harbor,  when the Navy figured out that these markings were like putting a bulls eye on their vessels.  that the best info I got on that so far........I've found no definite dates {go figure}.

 

I did find some blueprint drawings of the Arizona....might have been from a link you gave me Ken.   here is a great picture of the Arizona,  before the refit:

arizona2.jpg.9de48326b72ac6e8817001755767badc.jpg

note the paravane ports at the bow........hard to note if she had the red turrets either {doesn't look it to me}.  I think the masts and her tops to be very interesting {looks like they let Curley loose aboard ship} :D:D  :D 

Edited by popeye the sailor
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