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Hi, I am building 1:90 scale Mamoli Victory. Below is the link to my log. Could someone please advise what is convention to how far guns to stick out of ports? Are they moved outward as much as it is possible or it should be less than that?

Thank you,

Yuriy

 

 

untitled.JPG

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You would want the run out such that the front wheels of the carriage end up against the waterway.   In other words, as far as possible for several reasons... This helps to clear the muzzle blast from the rigging and also helps to get most (well.. maybe most) smoke out of the gun deck.

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On 20.07.2018 at 4:47 PM, Y.T. said:

Hi, I am building 1:90 scale Mamoli Victory. Below is the link to my log. Could someone please advise what is convention to how far guns to stick out of ports? Are they moved outward as much as it is possible or it should be less than that?

Thank you,

Yuriy

 

 

untitled.JPG

The Guns should be braced against the sides and pulled tight with outhaul tackles So they dont move when the ship is heeling side to side - you wouldnt want to have 2+ tons of metal hammering against the sides each Time the ship tilts 

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Posted (edited)

One thing that is apparent with the model of HMS Serapis that I am currently building is that the bulwarks of this model, as designed are pretty substantial. Anything less that about a thirty-two pounder (which Serapis did not come close to mounting) does not protrude at all beyond the gunports. The 9 pounders on the quarterdeck are the same and they are much smaller.  So, in checking the scale guns against  the two-feet deep bulwarks there just is not any way the guns can extend very far. In real life the barrels are about 9 feet, and for balance on the trunions the longer part of the barrel is going to be about 5 ft, , but that balances on the top of the carriage about about 2 feet back, so at most there is 2-3 feet extending out the gunport, but, that begins at the inside of the gunport with wheels against the beveled timber at the junction of the deck and bulwarks.

Edited by Serapis1779

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Posted (edited)

Do not believe the wheels were intended to be braced against and perpendicular to the bevel on the waterway. Captains had this strange desire to have the ability to point their guns, they all liked as did the crew to take a target under fire longer, being restricted to only firing perpendicular to the gun port because enough forethought did not take place to develop a method to point the guns forward and aft without damaging the Bulwarks or splitting a wheel on the carriage is not realistic. Several methods I am sure were used, including fenders normally used between hulls and docks, would expect more sacrificial bumpers inside the bulwarks mating up with cartage extensions being the norm, allowing pivoting against the Port and its sacrificial bumper without any carriage wheels being placed in a position to bear all the weight plus the forces added by the out haul tackle while hauling the gun into battery, which could be destructive to wheel and bulwarks without bumpers. Carriage wheels with square sides can do much damage when their square edge is ran up against anything made of softer wood and if the contact was made while the wheel was in a position where the grain of its wood was vertical could cause the wood to weaken, develop cracks and eventually fail. The carriage axle with it's wheels were not designed as bumpers, no matter what modern man in his wisdom wants you to believe. The same Laws of physics were in effect in the days of sail as exist today, You must take into account that. What is common today was also common in those days,' it ain't the doers that write about it'. Because of that, common sense must rule when reading about how it was done. Keep in mind that when a doer is doing the writing, he writes with the expectation that the reader has basic knowledge and common sense, often a mistake, especially when the reading takes place far in the future and the common knowledge of the day is not available to draw upon,because it has been lost to antiquity. Sounds like some scaling issues, bad for you but good for the manufacture of the model, no more complaints about broken bulwark ribs. You could close the ports, turn the guns and lash them to the bulwarks, title board including the ships name and also indicating that the ship is depicted on a peaceful passage to Australia in the middle of the Indian Ocean could cover the guns inboard and lashed. Sister found this photo of me when I was 13, had no memory of it. The gun would fire a whole roll of caps but as you can see, there are trunnion and carriage wheel problems, went on to other guns the second photo shows, the largest I was around, 8" 55 Turret 2, USS Helena CA 75, a heavy Cruiser.

 

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PICT0022.1.thumb.jpg.100289ed011dd7a6af0c28a5cf2fdae7.jpg

Edited by jud

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14 minutes ago, Y.T. said:

I found a drawing which can answer many questions.

24lbs gun.pdf

cannon2.jpg

indeed, the wheels themselves were never supposed to touch the bulwark, it was either the carriage cheeks or a bumper as seen in the picture, although some naval carriages which are presented in fort museums dont always have them (and they look like preserved carriages, maybe it was ommited on the carriage because it is in a fort but otherwise it looks like any other naval carriage)

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FWIW,there are some illustrations of gun carriages on page 129 of Laverys Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War. There are 4 drawings of 32 pdr gun carriages from 1730 to 1815. The 1815 carriage is called a slightly improved carriage with forward projections to keep it sufficient distance from the sides of the ship. None of the others have this. So it would appear that before this time no bumpers/projections were on gun carriages on English Ships,can't say for French or Spanish ships though. Also,I noticed that no gun carriage had the front wheels protruding forward of the front of the carriage. 

There could of course have been unofficial mods done by the Ships Carpenter on instructions from the Captain,who knows. ;):D

 

Dave :dancetl6:   

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Looks like a replaceable bumper also was used above the port for the muzzle could fit flat against it and lashed in place preventing any movement, probably inspected daily and all aboard would listen to the early warning signs of a gun needing it's lashing re-tightened or replaced. At sea, small movements gain in size and danger quickly. Valuable drawings of those 24 pounders. Although not shown, would expect the bulwark below the Port to also be equipped with a sacrificial bumper.

 

  jud   :pirate41:

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