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When to use what glue?


Ozark

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Hello 

I have questions on what type of glue to use on the Revell USS Constitution. basically where to use CA glue and where to use the liquid plastic cement. Oh and then there is the white glue. I just do not want it to start falling apart in 5  or 10 years. 

I have read a lot of the build logs and it seems people are using different glues on the same thing. So I guess that's where my confusion comes from.

 

Thank's Ozark

 

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For joining styrene to styrene, I always use a liquid solvent like Testors.  With the model parts joined together, you can use a small pointed brush or a pipette to apply the solvent to the joint.  Capillary action will wick the solvent into the joint and effectively “melt” the parts together quite neatly. 

 

I typically use CA for attaching resin or photo etched parts.  Thin CA will wick into joints neatly too.  

 

White glue can also be used for attaching photo etched parts, especially small-scale ship’s railings and such. 

 

And for gap gap filling I haven’t found anything better than Bondo Spot and Glazing putty.

 

My oldest surviving models are 20+ years old and everything seems to be holding together.

 

HTH,

 

Keith

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A note to the beginner, the choice of glues would depend on what medium you are working in. In this instance, the model is plastic.

Completed scratch build: The armed brig "Badger" 1777

Current scratch build: The 36 gun frigate "Unite" 1796

Completed kits: Mamoli "Alert", Caldercraft "Sherbourne"

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29 minutes ago, barkeater said:

In this instance, the model is plastic

What you said is true but Kieth did pretty much limit his answer to glues that would be used in building a plastic model.

 

The only thing I would possibly add would be the use of either wood(White Glue) or some other glues designed for the purpose when attaching clear plastic parts in order to keep them from glazing. Not a normal requirement when building plastic ships but could be applicable. 

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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I apologize if my comment was taken as a criticism to Kieth's post. I thought it was a good answer and I did see he was referring to styrene. I just wanted to make sure that somebody who just bought their first wood kit did not miss that the discussion was about plastic models.

Completed scratch build: The armed brig "Badger" 1777

Current scratch build: The 36 gun frigate "Unite" 1796

Completed kits: Mamoli "Alert", Caldercraft "Sherbourne"

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Tamiya extra thin or the Mr Hobby Mr Cement S for most parts it's very neat and welds the pieces together and evaporates leaving little or no trace on surfaces which can be lightly sanded away. 

 

CA for PE I use Zap thin and medium but I have seen people use glue sticks for certain PE situations, haven't tried myself.

 

Also use Revel Contacta Professional in certain situations it's the same as the 'classic' glue we all used to use as kids and make such a mess but this one comes with a neat application tube. I would be wary of using it on visible areas.

 

Micro crystal clear for clear parts such as canopies on planes.

Edited by Richmond

Current Builds

Mikasa by I Love Kit - 1:200 - Plastic

HMS Beagle by Occre - 1:48 - Wood

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5 hours ago, barkeater said:

my comment was taken as a criticism

Hello Barkeater

I think I need to apologize not you.

 

I was not trying to be critical, But my comment did come across that way when I read it over just now after reading your reply.  I should have not worded it the way I did. Your heads up about the topic being about plastic models not wooden models is, and was valid,

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Hi Ozark

Here is a list as I see it. Others may have a more detailed description or comprehensive list.

 

PE = Photoetch

 

Styrene/ Polystyrene pretty much interchangeable in this contex

 

Some kits come with photoetch and others do not, but many kits do have after market photoetch details available. 

 

Very few kits come with resin parts. Resin parts are usually more accurate or detailed castings of fixtures on the model and are most often after market replacements for items that are already in the kit, or additional items for enhanced detailing of a kit. They are most often created by small cottage industry companies.

 

A relatively new product that could be added to this list is 3D printed parts. These are very similar to resin castings, but in many or most cases are more finely detailed as they are computer generated and not restricted the mold process required by both the original plastic kit and the resin process.  

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Ozark

No one knows it all. Post your progress on the Constitution and continue as you have started by reaching out with questions when you wish to understand and sooner than you know you will be able to pass your new found knowledge and abilities on to others. That is how this forum works. The collective knowledge will almost always be able to solve any question.

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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  • 4 months later...

Plastic model cement won’t work gluing plastic parts that are painted. The mating surfaces need to be naked plastic. White glue can be used to glue painted parts together but it’s not an ideal bond. I’m guessing you could get through an entire modeling career using only cyano acrylate (CA) and white glue, between the two of them you can glue nearly everything. But still I think you can never have enough verieties of glues.

  

Quote

 

 Niagara USS Constitution 

 

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  • 7 months later...

This is going to be my first post on this great site (I am rather in an aircraft building mood atm 😏 ) ...

 

I am no chemist, but still believe that you need to understand the properties of each type of glue to make the right choice. My apologies to the real specialists who will find my comments over-simplified in some areas.

 

Plastic to plastic (styrene or polystyrene) 

 

Stryrene glue will work by dissolving the polymer (the plastic) on mating surfaces. Applying pressure and letting it « dry » (i.e. letting the solvents evaporate) will result in the plastic parts being « welded » together. On large mating surfaces - like two hull halves - , glues like Contacta or Tamiya thick glue will work fine. Thin glues (like Tamiya Thin or Extra-Thin) are good when you want to avoid traces of glue : being mostly high-evaporation solvents, they will run between the mating surfaces by capillary action. They are also good for small mating surfaces, where the plastic surface to be melted is reduced, and the gluing is done quickly.

As a side note, styrene glue will not work on some other « plastic » polymers, like PMMA (commercial name is for instance Perspex) or ABS. For these, MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) is great. MEK is also good for styrene, but beware, it’s hot on styrene, which it will melt quickly if applied too liberally ...

 

Old styrene glues were not as efficient than nowadays. The dissolving effect was not as good as today. So putting an assembly in the freezer will pull the assembly apart, by inducing shearing forces on the joint, because of the minute contraction of the frozen plastic ...

 

CA glue 

 

Cyanoacrylate glue is good to mate dissimilar materials, as well as similar materials. So good for metal to plastic, wood to plastic, fabric to plastic, but also metal to metal, or plastic to plastic ... or finger to finger 😁

Two basic types, then subdivising ad infinitum : fluid or gel. Fluid will run between parts, gel or thick types will stay where you put them ... As it ages, CA will become thicker, for the reason explained below.

CA is a polymer. The polymerisation is triggered by humidity of the ambient air. So dry air is not very conducive to good working of CA. And blowing on the glue to accelerate its setting is not as silly as it may seem 🙂. Because of its triggering mechanism, CA will not age gracefully, as most containers, in a kind of plastic like PEHD, will let water vapor permeate through their envelope. To help CA live longer, store it in an airtight container in the fridge, or at ambient temperature but with moisture-absorbing silica-gel sachets.

CA has excellent tensile strength, and very poor shearing strength. So pulling components apart is very difficult if the applied force is normal (perpendicular) to the gluing area. But do not expect gluing at right angles (like two walls of a house) to be very strong. Any knock that applies a force provoking a shearing or twisting moment on the joint is likely to break it, especially if the mating surface is  very thin (like with PE  - photoetched - parts).

CA is also very good also for gluing knots in rope. Because of its mechanical properties, I have successfully used it to glue rigging on biplanes using elastic thread or nylon monofilament. It can be used for wood-to-wood as well.

Beware that CA will liberate fumes, even long after the gluing, and these fumes love organic material. Excellent for showing fingerprints in police forensics, less so on transparent plastic, or glossy painted surfaces with finger marks. It is also suspected of interacting negatively with  some types of high-lead content white metals, thus turning white metal fittings into dust over time. Not what you want on a thousand-working-hours wooden man-o-war ...

 

CA can be dissolved with acetone. Good on metal to metal, but acetone will dissolve styrene before the CA ...

 

Epoxy glue.

 

Another polymer, but here the polymerisation is triggered by mixing two components. Epoxy is great in tensile and shearing forces. But it is not very runny (an understatement), so basically you have to be very careful where to apply it, as any spills will be very hard to remove. Some epoxy glues are unbelievably strong. The « queen » (IMHO) of epoxy glues, JB Weld, is renown for enabling to repair broken engine blocks ...

Acetic acid (like in vinegar) will dissolve epoxy glue in the long run...

 

Welding

 

If you master it, welding is still better for assembling PE, compared to CA glue.

 

HTH.

 

Hubert.

 

PS: I have forgotten white glue, which works wonders on wood-to-wood or rope, or paper or cardboard.

 

Edited by Hubert Boillot
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2 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Hubert

 

An excellent post!!  Can you expand a little on what you mean by welding?  Do you mean soldering?

 

Roger

Yes. My bad ! Just my limited command of English (I’m French, in case you did not get the hint from my name - nobody’s perfect 🙄).

Welding is one step beyond soldering. Mind you, some railroad modellers use spot-welding techniques on scratchbuilt brass locos ... just like in your ordinary car factory.

 

Hubert

Edited by Hubert Boillot
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