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39 minutes ago, wefalck said:

manufacturers often dump 'seconds' that do not fulfill the quality standards of brands on the market.

    We have the same problems when buying locally from home improvement lumber/hardware yards Menards and Home Depot.  I once bought a tripod mounted halogen shop light from Menards that apparently was made in China. (Where else?)  While attempting to assemble the unit, the weld on the cross bar support for the lights just flat out failed. (Looking closely at the weld revealed that the metal underneath the weld was already rusted!)      To avoid the hassle of trying to return it to the center, I  just drilled a hole for a lag bolt in the cross bar, force fit a wood dowel into the vertical support pipe, and screwed the bolt in tight.  Problem solved!  Too bad this is seldom the case.  Perhaps this is a just another case of: you get what you pay for, or perhaps put crap in, get crap out.:P

Dave

“You’ve just got to know your limitations”  Dirty Harry

Current Builds:  Modified MS 1/8” scale Phantom, and modified plastic/wood hybrid of Aurora 1:87 scale whaling bark Wanderer.

Past Builds: (Done & sold) 1/8” scale A.J. Fisher 2 mast schooner Challenge, 1/6” scale scratch built whaler Wanderer w/ plans & fittings from A.J. Fisher, and numerous plastic kits including 1/8” scale Revell U.S.S. Constitution (twice), Cutty Sark, and Mayflower.

                  (Done & in dry dock) Modified 1/8” scale Revell U.S.S. Constitution w/ wooden deck and masting [too close encounter w/conc. floor in move]

Hope to get to builds: MS 3/16” scale Pride of Baltimore II,  MS 1/2” scale pinky schooner Glad Tidings,  a scratch build 3/16” scale  Phantom, and a scratch build 3/16" scale Denis Sullivan.

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"Perhaps this is a just another case of: you get what you pay for, ..." - Unfortunately, even buying brands doesn't safe you from this. Perhaps this is not the case with long-established reputable tool-brands, but in many other business areas, particular consumer goods, poor quality control and pressure from shareholders to keep returns up leads to undermining trust in brands. This particularly affects the medium-price ranges: if you buy very cheap, you know that you well get poor quality, if you buy from high-level brands you probably can expect reasonable quality, but in the middle you never know.

At least for machine-tools from cheap(ish) sources, I would consider them as 'materials sets in advanced state of manufacturing': the industrial-type processes have been carried out (which one cannot do at home), but the fitting and fine-tuning still needs to be done - and this is costly, because it is labour-intensive. This approach saves a lot of frustration.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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Gidday everyone.

My father often told me in regard to tools to buy the best I could afford. He would have been 100 this year and my son and I are still using some of his hand tools. Even with limited funds I try to save and avoid the instant gratification that so many people seem to enjoy. I hope to pass some tools on to my grandson when he is older.

Just a few thoughts.

 Mark.

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As stated before I who have (as well as others)  shallow water pockets find Micro Mark and other tool suppliers a rip off. I refuse to buy such an overpriced this is the next best thing.

 

I find being patient there are many outlets to find the same items at a much lower cost. 

 

There are 2 groups of modelers.

 

1. Those that are advanced and need specialty power tools. Metal and wood working lathes to make your own shackles, stays, turnbuckles, cannons and turn wood, etc.

 

2. Those that need a few basic tools Dremel, and a bunch of knives, and glue. I have seen some impressive work conducted with a Dremel, scalpel, cutting mat.

Y'all are a bunch of hoarders, several walk in closets with models from the middle 1800s to present day, boats, planes, trains,  all be completed after 11 re-incarnations. Tools and workshops to start a shipyard to replicate a full size Vic or Queen Mary. 

 

Imelda Marcos only had 1200 pair of shoes she would be very jealous of how she has been relegated to last place. (hey all in jest):rolleyes:

John Allen

 

Current builds HMS Victory-Mamoli

On deck

USS Tecumseh, CSS Hunley scratch build, Double hull Polynesian canoe (Holakea) scratch build

 

Finished

Waka Taua Maori War Canoe, Armed Launch-Panart, Diligence English Revenue Cutter-Marine  Model Co. 


 

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Quote - from BETAQDAVE - Speak of the devil!  I just got a new catalog from Micro-Mark in the mail today sporting another new offering called the Doctor DRYBooth.  For a mere $199.95 you too can own this 10 5/8" w. x 18" h. x 8" deep metal box. (basically a small oven)  Claims it will cut painted part drying time in half.  I don't know about you but with just a little patience I believe that I'll just save the $200. B) - Quote

 

A filament  light-bulb in a cardboard box will do that too.

Edited by MM2CVS9
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It seems to me that excluding power tools, MicroMark has two kinds of stuff.  First, Specialty tools that they have either invented themselves or copied from someone else that are mostly junk.  Many of these appear to be aimed at modelers with little no no experience, and could easily be fabricated at home from a few pieces of wood and some nails.

 

On the other hand, they do have some tools that are useful and “good enough” for the intended service.  For example, a good friend of mine just gave me a cordless Dremel tool that I would like to use for drilling treenails on a POF hull.  MicroMark sells a chuck to adapt it for wire sized drills.  I have also gotten good use from their needle files.  Some get pretty rough usage such as cleaning solder from a joint.

 

i have never bought any of their power tools.

 

Roger 

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5 hours ago, John Allen said:

Y'all are a bunch of hoarders,

Are you looking in my closet again John? Guilty, GUILTY, and guilty. But I do take them out now and again and at least pet them, MY PRECIOUS! :huh::blink:

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Amen brothers and sisters...Moab

Completed Builds:

Virginia Armed Sloop...Model Shipways

Ranger...Corel

Louise Steam Launch...Constructo

Hansa Kogge...Dusek

Yankee Hero...BlueJacket

Spray...BlueJacket

26’ Long Boat...Model Shipways

Under Construction:

Emma C. Berry...Model Shipways

 

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Since I last entered this thread on tools I purchased a new tool. One can never go wrong with measuring tools and I am sure all would agree this is one category that we use continuously in one form or another. I have come away from the "dark side" finished the Atlantis ABS plastic hull and model and have re-entered the realm of hull planking (on my Cheerful) I have had to do a good deal of plank measurement and retrim.

 

I have a number of calipers, both dial and digital. I find them useful for many tasks and I have been using them to trim boxwood planking for the Cheerful hull. I find that they can be a bit clumsy when measuring with one hand holding the plank and the other the calipers. Zeroing in on the measurement and then removing it to measure further along can be a tad cumbersome. Recall of the measurement often is a repeated process.

 

I happened on a tool I had seen before but had never thought that useful. It is the iGAGING Snap Thickness Gauge. I thought I would give it a try after arguing with myself..."Really! You don't need another tool!" It was just about $30 with shipping so it was not going to break the bank.

 

Here is what I really like about it:

1. It is easily a one handed tool.

2. It has a flat headed measuring anvil that easily slides along the plank to measure thickness.

3. It has a HOLD button that retains the measurement when the device is withdrawn from the object

4. Here is what I really liked...it has an ABSOLUTE button that measures difference from whatever one chooses as a reference on the part.

5. It's accuracy is supposedly +/- 0.0015 inches

6. It has a ball anvil to replace one of the flat anvils that improves access in tight spots.

 

The 0 to 1 inch range for the work we do does not seem a problem, at least not yet. It did not come with directions which I found odd but is easily mastered after about one minute of playing. I measured it against my dial and digital calipers and it was right on the mark. Like calipers you do have to be deliberate in placement as one can measure the trapezoidal effect of inaccurate placement.

 

I always look at the reviews on line and the most disparaging comment was life. Now I have found if these units are kept in a humid environment they can indeed give flaky results. So a word to the wise. Put them in a sealed plastic bag if it is to reside in such an environment.

 

Joe

 

P1010358.JPG

Edited by Thistle17
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  • 2 weeks later...

I must admit "I'm a tool addict".  This became very clear when I sold my house in Santa Fe and had to break down and sell most of the tools in my  shop. While going though that process I found that I had purchased identical tools but stored them in different places mostly out of sight. Maybe l can claim that I was getting older (I'm 75) and the memory isn't great. Or perhaps I liked an individual tool so much that I had to have multiples. I also admit I'm on the Lie-Nielsen, Lee Valley and others sites on a regular basis not necessarily making a purchase...just drooling.

 

p.s. I really loved the Lee Valley site when the old man (forgot his name) who started the company was still running the venture. He was a real "tool guy" and many of his articles were eye-opening...Moab

Completed Builds:

Virginia Armed Sloop...Model Shipways

Ranger...Corel

Louise Steam Launch...Constructo

Hansa Kogge...Dusek

Yankee Hero...BlueJacket

Spray...BlueJacket

26’ Long Boat...Model Shipways

Under Construction:

Emma C. Berry...Model Shipways

 

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On 11/1/2018 at 5:09 PM, CPDDET said:

Just received my first MicroMark catalog. Holy smokes!!

 

This reminds me of when I first became a boat owner and later when I first became a RV owner. West Marine and Camping world sold more gadgets, do-dads, thing-a-ma-jigs and what-ja-ma-call-its than one could use in 3 lifetimes. As a dyed in the wool tool addict this type of paraphernalia is dangerous to be within a country mile of the house.

 

This newbie will be seeking the advice of you more experienced builders about which contraptions are worth having before I dish out any of my hard earned moola.

 

Dave

Keep in mind that the quality of tools from Micro-Mark varies quite a bit. Some are pretty good, but many are cheap knock-offs of professional tools, mostly jeweler's tools. I long since stopped buying from Micro-Mark and I go straight to professional jeweler and watchmaker and machinist supply places, this is very much a you get what you pay for thing - if you buy a set of needle files for $10, don't expect them to work real well, it's far better to save your money and spend $50 on a professional set that are dead straight and extremely sharp and will last many years.

 

Start here: http://www.ottofrei.com/

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Gidday everyone.

Vossiewulf I agree 100% with your comment. Buying cheap tools is false economy. Once you total the cost over a lifetime it's far more economical to purchase the best quality you can afford. Although price is not an indication of quality, if something is cheap it is usually cheaply made. Having said that I have to weigh up cost versus need, I check myself to determine if I need the tool or do I like the tool.

I'm off the soapbox now.

Best regards to all.

Mark.

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On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 2:19 PM, Thistle17 said:

Put them in a sealed plastic bag if it is to reside in such an environment.

Plastic bag in certain environs cold to hot to humid can accumulate moisture. Might be a little better in a hard case plastic or wood storage container. Have lost several accessories and fittings stored I sealed plastic bags , worse when barometric pressure falls and you have high humidity.

 

 

John Allen

 

Current builds HMS Victory-Mamoli

On deck

USS Tecumseh, CSS Hunley scratch build, Double hull Polynesian canoe (Holakea) scratch build

 

Finished

Waka Taua Maori War Canoe, Armed Launch-Panart, Diligence English Revenue Cutter-Marine  Model Co. 


 

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My workshop is located in my basement so even though Northern Minnesota is not a particularly high humidity location, I have had problems with light rust bloom on tools in the summer.

 

In my past life, I was involved with the fabrication of large piping assemblies for industrial applications.  These were often internally cleaned with abrasive steel grit,  then capped with sheet metal end caps taped in place.  The assemblies might be stored for some time before field installation, so rusting of internal surfaces would occur.

 

In an effort to deal with this problem some of our customers specified adding bags of dessicant before capping the assemblies for shipment.  While this seemed like a good idea, if the dessicant was not removed promptly it would become saturated and leave pools of water inside the pipe causing more serious corrosion. The next approach for fighting rust involved use of vapor phase inhibitors VPI and actually worked.  VPI’s work by sublimation.  They are a solid that “off gasses” a vapor that provides a protective surface on otherwise unprotected metal surfaces.  One commonly used VPI is sold here in the US (on Amazon) under the name ZRust.

 

Several years ago I bought a package of ZRust strips and put some into enclosed tool storage cabinets.  They seem to work.

 

Roger

 

 

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4 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Several years ago I bought a package of ZRust strips and put some into enclosed tool storage cabinets.  They seem to work.

I use Renaissance Wax. Used by the royal museums in England to protect their collections, of course no silicone. A very thin coating keeps my planes and chisels and carving tools (I have up to jack planes so not all small) rust-free.

 

41DjQG9hJyL._SX425_.jpg

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Here's a good example, a couple years ago I went through surgical supply places and bought some professional medical and dental tools. One  of them that you couldn't pry out of my dead hands is called a Barraquer Needle Holder. It sits in a happy place between pliers and tweezers and has taken over much of the duty from both of those. If you go to Ebay and just type that name in, you get this:

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=barraquer+needle+holder&_sacat=0&_fsrp=1

 

A zillion Barraquer needle holders for $15 or less, made in China or Indonesia by god knows who. These would be what Micro-Mark would sell, and they probably don't work super well. However if you hit the "over $35" button you get this:

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=barraquer+needle+holder&_sacat=0&_fsrp=1&_udlo=35

 

If you bought one of the Storz or V. Mueller or Accutome ones you'd get an instrument that's at the top level of world instrument quality in any field, and you'd use it constantly and be very happy every time you did so.  I know they're expensive but I really think the return on investment makes it worth it every time.

 

Another good one is called Colibri Forceps, they're for opthalmic surgery and they're by far the best tweezers I've ever used. One, good ones are very finely engineered so that the harder you press, the more force is put on what you're holding until it bottoms out. You can lift surprisingly heavy things with them. Two, the L-shaped jaws are genius. Instead of holding something at points like with most tweezers, you're holding with these L shapes and they are an order of magnitude more resistant to having the object you're holding twist than any tweezers I've used. You can lift bottles of paint with them, and with perfect control place tiniest piece you need to attach to something.

 

Just be careful as some come with teeth. They're big sharp stabby teeth that are exactly what you don't want. So make sure with pics or text that you're looking at ones with no teeth.

 

Here's a competent example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Asico-Colibri-Forceps-0-12mm-AE-4030/362497499945?hash=item546688e329:g:y80AAOSwc-tY1CAI:rk:20:pf:0

 

Edited by vossiewulf
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Has anyone purchased a Dremel 2050 Stylo + ?  I saw one in Wal Mart $ 60.00 it's really small about the size of a fat permanent marker?

Worth the price. Looks like there might be some advantages.

John Allen

 

Current builds HMS Victory-Mamoli

On deck

USS Tecumseh, CSS Hunley scratch build, Double hull Polynesian canoe (Holakea) scratch build

 

Finished

Waka Taua Maori War Canoe, Armed Launch-Panart, Diligence English Revenue Cutter-Marine  Model Co. 


 

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Yes, got a couple of those Barraquer needle holders somehow secondhand for a fraction of the price in the ebay-offers. Mine, unfortunately are not lockable, but one can improvise a lock by sliding an oval ring over them.

 

One has to keep an eye open for those chirurgical and particularly ophtalimic surgery instruments. Have also micro-scissors of different sizes from that realm and they come to good use in rigging.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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I have a small dremel like tool from WeCheer.   Very handy for those tight spots the big boys won't fit into.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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8 hours ago, John Allen said:

Has anyone purchased a Dremel 2050 Stylo + ?  I saw one in Wal Mart $ 60.00 it's really small about the size of a fat permanent marker?

Worth the price. Looks like there might be some advantages.

If you're willing to spend the money, what you're looking for is called a micromotor. Brushless, small, high torque, but not cheap - probably $500 minimum and the better ones are up to $1500 or more. But if you get one, you'll never look at a Dremel tool again. The most reasonably-priced one I am aware of is the Marathon: https://www.artcotools.com/marathon-micromotor/

 

 

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I agree about the micromotor.  I have a Marathon model - fairly expensive but I used it for years when I was bird-carving and it has been really valuable in the ship modeling.  Any micromotor should have a foot pedal for optimum control.  Less expensive micromotor options are available on eBay, but I don't know anything about their durability.  

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Dental-Lab-Marathon-Electric-Micromotor-Polishing-Unit-N3-35K-RPM-Handpiece/380881901575?hash=item58ae549807:g:qxgAAOSw5FpZmpTq:rk:2:pf:0

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A foot control is a good idea for any power-tool in the workshop. I run all my machines off foot-switches, of the momentary kind, i.e. when you lift the foot, the current is interrupted immediately. Keeps your hands free for the work and if something goes wrong, you just lift your foot from the pedal. As I have it in front of the transformer for hand-held tools, it also saves energy, as the transformer is not running all the time.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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On 12/2/2018 at 10:35 AM, Mahuna said:

I agree about the micromotor.  I have a Marathon model - fairly expensive but I used it for years when I was bird-carving and it has been really valuable in the ship modeling.  Any micromotor should have a foot pedal for optimum control.  Less expensive micromotor options are available on eBay, but I don't know anything about their durability.  

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Dental-Lab-Marathon-Electric-Micromotor-Polishing-Unit-N3-35K-RPM-Handpiece/380881901575?hash=item58ae549807:g:qxgAAOSw5FpZmpTq:rk:2:pf:0

 

Thanks for the link! I'm probably in the market for a new Dremel and even with shipping to Oz, the Marathon micromotor is cheaper than I can get a Dremel 4000 here.

Wonder if they fit the Vanda-Lay mill ...

Kits awaiting build: Charles W. Morgan [Artesania Latina], Skuldelev Viking [Billings], Lyde [Euromodel]

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Seems that the Chines make quite reasonable ones at a reasonable price - some of my colleagues have been quite impressed. This offer is from NL, but it originates in China. It bit of searching on ebay should turn up an offer closer to home:

 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Dental-Labor-Marathon-Micromotor-35K-rpm-Zahntechnik-Straight-Contra-Handstück/121242068474

 

 

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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2 hours ago, geoffs said:

 

Thanks for the link! I'm probably in the market for a new Dremel and even with shipping to Oz, the Marathon micromotor is cheaper than I can get a Dremel 4000 here.

Wonder if they fit the Vanda-Lay mill ...

They do make a holder to fit the standard one inch diameter Foredom handpieces. That may well work for the micromotor you are contemplating. I'll bet they'd be able to cut on special order a holder with a diameter hole for any such tool.

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I recentlybdid some driving for a friend who owns a dental laboratory and even had a go at trimming special plates for him, the setup in the lab I thought was perfect for us modellers with a suction tube under the table and marathon micromotors and hand piece 

I now have a similar setup on my work table with foot pedal

20181203_161934.thumb.jpg.ebbe33cca1cb6aee543096bac4c576ea.jpg20181203_161943.thumb.jpg.518aaec3959ac1f5920a1b9511640cb6.jpg

 

Works well and with the suction set up I can sand with the hand piece or my rotary file without clouds of dust getting everywhere

Regards

Paul

The clerk of the cheque's yacht of sheerness

Current build HMS Sirius (1797) 1:48 scratch POF from NMM plans

HMS Winchelsea by chuck 1:48

Cutter cheerful by chuck 1:48

Previous builds-

Elidir - Thames steam barge

Cutty Sark-Billings boats

Wasa - billings boats

Among others 😁

 

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Still looking at the Marathon micromotor as my next rotary tool and have a couple of questions:

  • What method is used to hold the bits? collet or chuck?
  • What diameter shaft is used for bits?
Edited by geoffs

Kits awaiting build: Charles W. Morgan [Artesania Latina], Skuldelev Viking [Billings], Lyde [Euromodel]

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