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 Has anyone seen a model ship with the foul weather tarps deployed? If so please provide picture/pictures or link. Thank you......Keith

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Keith, what type of ship and what period are you asking about?  Do you mean dodgers rigged to protect the crew on the poop?

 

John

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John, screw and sail vessels from the 1860's through the 1890's. This photo of the USS Tennessee shows the starboard side tarps up but one can't tell if the tarp is being deployed or stowed. I was thinking that a model with tarps deployed would be unique .....Keith

3ymSCVL.jpg

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OK, now I'm with you, Keith.

 

I've certainly seen models with the awning spars modelled, but I don't think I've ever seen one with the awnings rigged, other than permanent awnings.  Awnings were most often rigged in port in tropical waters to provide some protection from the sun  It would certainly look nice, but you'd have to be careful that the awnings didn't hide too much deck detail on the model.

 

John

 

 

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You’ll see live-aboard recreational sailors at southern marinas rig awnings to shade the deck and keep cabin temps down.  Modern warships do the same on occasion (at least up until the 1980s) when moored to help lesson the AC load.  Deck fittings, poles, wire rope, fittings and canvas were ship’s equipment.  I doubt it was this standardized during the age of sail, probably improvised by each ship’s crew.

 

I think the US battleships at Pearl Harbor had awnings rigged; I’m sure I’ve seen this modeled at 1/350 and 1/700.  IMHO it can make for an interesting model, like showing torpedo nets or accommodation ladders deployed.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

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 I can certainly see the use of tarps in hot weather climes to lessen deck temps but also see the use of tarps to keep off rain or snow when at port in norther climes. I think a tarps up model would be interesting and would require the viewer to peek beneath the covers as it were.

 An interesting discovery when searching foul weather tarps and icing of wood hull sailing ships (I can't imagine a old sailing ship taking on ice with sails deployed. Trying to quickly take down ice sheeted sails, working with ice coated lines. Better men than I!) was that of ice hauling ships, one in particular, the Acorn, with a "felt sheathed hull and yellow metal" which lead to this link. Very interesting information regarding sheathed hulls......Keith

 

http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Shipbuilding/Young(1867)_Ch4.html

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1 hour ago, Keith Black said:

 I can certainly see the use of tarps in hot weather climes to lessen deck temps but also see the use of tarps to keep off rain or snow when at port in norther climes.

I'd say not likely for "rain or snow." Wet weather certainly didn't discourage the "iron men in wooden ships." More importantly, the weight of snow would definitely be a problem with awnings rigged. (The nautical term is "awnings." "Tarps" are tight-fitting canvas covers to protect for deck machinery, hatch covers, and the like.) Awnings behave like horizontal sails in storm conditions. It likely wouldn't have been considered good seamanship to be caught in a blow with awnings rigged. They'd beat themselves to pieces. However, small awnings rigged over rigid frames, as sometimes seen on launches might be another matter, but these are mainly "spray dodgers" which came on the scene with the arrival of powered launches.

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4 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

Awnings behave like horizontal sails in storm conditions. It likely wouldn't have been considered good seamanship to be caught in a blow with awnings rigged

Bob, I totally agree, if you thought otherwise I apologize. I said "tarps deployed at port/dock", not while underway. I could see how snow load could be an issue but not rain. Please see the attached Hatton and Hart photos of the Tennessee showing paulin atop the gun ridge. If the correct term is awning instead of tarps I stand corrected and thank you for doing so. The "awning" I'm speaking of was two halves, starboard and port, that was hung by line run atop the lifeboat davits and covered the entire deck not just a weather deck.........Keith

S41o92Q.jpg

rNaZk18.jpg

AhCO4OZ.jpg

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Another photo of a ship in this time period (ships name unknown) showing awnings up though a portion the deck forward of the stack remains uncovered...........Keith

098637603.jpg

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Hammock covers I believe are shown on the photos. Awnings would be rigged clear across the deck where used, all I have seen were dressed up with Fancy Work and were a well bleached white. Occasionally during Monsoon Season we would rig tarps, feel free to use this as an example. Anyone notice the jug and cups, needed to stay hydrated even in the Monsoon season, this was the ready gun maned 24/7s with a short 4 man crew, sometimes we would fill that jug  twice during a 4 hour watch, cups were plastic, everyone had their own, Mount 46, Harnett County LST 821, TF 116, TU 76.8.3, RVN, 1967 or 1968. Corner of gun cover tied to the flag pole and some ram rods holding it up so it would drain. We could get some shelter there when it was raining buckets. Ammo on the deck, we used it.

 

1827179518_DIRECTFROMCEARCLICK157.thumb.jpg.90bc41ac5227879a71d68f69ef131e57.jpg   

Edited by jud

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AhCO4OZ.jpg

 

That appears to be tarps covering what is perhaps the hammock racks. That is what I was talking about when I said things would be covered with tarps, but they wouldn't rig awnings in snow or rain because they'd have problems with the weight of snow and the wind with the awnings. In the above photo, there is a framework evident that would hold a tightly lashed down awning over the open hatch. Just aft of the capstan. ... And does anybody know what those "buckets" hanging from the capstan are  there for? I've never run into those before.

 

098637603.jpg

 

Here above is a good picture of a ship at anchor in a harbor with sun awnings rigged. These are intended to provide shade on deck and are commonly used in the tropics. The sails indicate that there isn't any heavy wind blowing and the laundry in the rigging suggests the weather was nice. I am a bit perplexed by the height of the "clothes lines, though." It does keep them up and out of the way and everything below shipshape, but rigging them appears to have been a chore. All the clothing would have to be well-tied to be secure!  

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Thought fire buckets initially, after some reflection of the location, I began to think they held sand to be used on the deck when the Capstan was rigged and in use. Speculation based on location and they are not painted red, as fire equipment usually is.

 

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While we are musing... can anybody explain to me how the capstan ends up being right up next to the companionway hatch which appears to have permanently mounted railings on it?  With the capstan bars mounted and manned, how to they turn it with the hatch in the way?

 

AhCO4OZ.jpg

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Hammocks in their boxes would be covered by painted tarpaulins when at sea to prevent spray and light rain from wetting them. In real foul wheather they would be kept below deck to prevent loosing them, when a heavy sea comes over.

 

Awnings seem to have been a common feature on naval vessels from the steam-days on. There were usually metal stanchions on the outer edge of the vessel and wooden beams amidship. They prevented exposure from both sun and light rain and were meant to protect crews while exercising or going about their daily duties. Except in winter it was probably more pleasant to do these things on deck, rather than in the cramped and low rooms below. The awning were invariably rigged while in port or at anchor in roadsteads and may have been kept up at sea under good conditions, though without the tarpaulins/sun-sails.

 

They seem to have largely disappeared in the interval between the wars, perhaps because they take a long time to clear a ship for action and crew duties have changed. They may also increas the radar image.

 

On merchant steamers awnings were common up to the age of container-ships on such ships that went into the Mediterranean or the tropics. On sailing ships they were rare and crews protected themselves with make-shift sun-sails in the tropics.

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11 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

While we are musing... can anybody explain to me how the capstan ends up being right up next to the companionway hatch which appears to have permanently mounted railings on it?  With the capstan bars mounted and manned, how to they turn it with the hatch in the way?

 

AhCO4OZ.jpg

I am sure that those railings are removable.  The same are on the USS Constitution and are removed regularly.

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1 hour ago, popeye2sea said:

I am sure that those railings are removable.

Henry

 They are removable, see the attached Hatton and Hart photos below.

Photo 1) Port side fore removed

Photo 2) Port side fore in place

Photo 3) Companionway and capstan in question, Starboard side fore removed.......Keith

wGM2LrY.jpg

YZJNAnn.jpg

AhCO4OZ.jpg

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Removable rails is good... but it looks like the poor suckers still had to step up and down to get past the hatch as they went around. I'm presuming they covered the hatch, but the hatch sill is still a step up. I'm always amazed at how much work it took to get things done on the old navy ships.

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Not 100% sure how actually done, but I have seen video and photos some time back where rather than step over an obstacle, the sailors would peel-off and go around back to a certain batten / point and do their bit of pushing again.  The capstan for my current build (1855) allowed the anchor to be gained with just 10 men using the Brown and Harfield patent capstan.

 

cheers

 

Pat

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1 hour ago, el cid said:

Gotta keep sailors occupied to keep ‘em outta trouble.  

Just raising anchor took what we would call a long time.  Setting sails and keeping them set to the wind was another full time job.  One of the critics commented about Master and Commander on the seeming short efforts following the "Quarters" command actually would have taken longer than what the movie showed.

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3 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

looks like the poor suckers still had to step up and down to get past the hatch

 I, like Paul, think the capstan could have been steam driven, if not, it must have been turned from below?

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On 1/30/2019 at 7:10 PM, mtaylor said:

Just raising anchor took what we would call a long time.  Setting sails and keeping them set to the wind was another full time job.  One of the critics commented about Master and Commander on the seeming short efforts following the "Quarters" command actually would have taken longer than what the movie showed.

The whole process of heaving short, weighing, raising, and stowing the anchors would take longer than todays movie length.

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