The Naiad Frigate by Ed Tosti

[Smac]

Ed, thank you for the clarification. I am non yet acquainted with the naval terminology. I did in fact check the Drawing Note sheet, but rising wood was not mentioned as such even though in the Glossary Rising Wood and Deadwood are separately and precisely defined. You might perhaps wish in the new edition of your book (which I am sure will come about shortly) either to consolidate the definitions or list Rising Wood in the Drawing Note sheet. Again, thank you for all you have done and are still doing for us commoners. 

Salvatore

[Mau]

 Ed, I read your book for the third time and I'm still amazed.  The best book I've ever read on the subject. Congratulations!   May I suggest the inclusion of a CD on Vol 2 with the color photos? 

Mauricio

[mtaylor]

Don,

 

If you've followed Ed's build log of her, you'd see that's for any modeler.  He has tips and tools applicable to all levels.

[allanyed]

Don

http://www.seawatchbooks.com/  $75 plus S&H.

I have volume I and have learned quite a few tips from Ed's book.  There are many things that would be useful to any model and any level builder.

Allan

[EdT]

Thank you for all these comments and for the interest in the book.  As far as the value of the book to builders with limited experience, I can only say that my goal was to write it in a way that does not assume a lot of knowledge of the subject or of scratchbuilding methods, while at the same time describing the construction of a fairly complex model.  Readers will have to judge how well this was achieved.  Hopefully experienced builders will be patient with some content that they already understand.

 

Volume II is well along, with only the last 4 chapters to write.  Of course, there is a lot of editing and checking to do - and there is the production process.

 

Again, thanks for the interest in the book.

 

Ed

[runner63]

I have this book and can attest to the fact it is full of methods and ideas.

 

runner63

[Dacoit]

Ed, I'm hooked and will be ordering from the UK shortly.(in Sri Lanka presently). I was kinda hoping you would have finished Vol 2 so that I could order both Vols together and save on shipping costs. BTW, will ordering 2 or more books from Seawatch save shipping costs? Just wondering

 

Even if you don't have Vol 2 ready I'll be ordering vol 1. Just can't wait!

 

There's one thing I'd like to know- Are there detailed instructions for drafting ship's plans using CAD? Especially in 3D? I want to do my own drafting and am looking desperately all over for updated instructions/tutorials. Okay I know Wayne has written a wonderful article on the subject but I am trying to explore the possibility of using layers, 3D  and rendering in combination to initially fair out the draughts and then to loft the frames from the faired-out plans.  In the write-up for the book it mentions that you've touched upon the subject!

 

Why don't you publish a whole practicum on the subject?

 

The way you're going I'll be on the way to bankruptcy in a hurry and enjoying it all the way!

Len 

[EdT]

Thanks, runner and Len for your comments.

 

Len, on the shipping costs you should check with Seawatchbooks.com. I do not have that information.

 

There is an appendix in Volume I of about 30 pages discussing drafting model plans from Admiralty drafts using CAD based on the drafting methods used by the original surveyors. However, it is not CAD tutorial. Software differs and I wanted to focus on the drafting. A CAD manual would be larger than Vol I. I did not address 3D drafting. There is a section on fairing out the lines at the stern where the body plan and the waterlines are not sufficient in themselves to establish the final lines. Lofting of frames is covered in depth based on body lines developed by original methods.

 

The appendix is my practicum. If I were to write another one, I would have to give up either eating or sleeping. Maybe someday.

 

Ed

Edited April 10, 2013 by EdT

[egen]

Hello!

I would like to ask what the drawings are planned in the Volume 2?
This is a very important question, because it stops my project. I need drawings of lower decks.

I also wanted to know what I can take the drawings as a building jig.

I would like to do it, as it is well guarded by a model of disaster.

 

 

 

[Smac]

Ed, building of the Naiad is progressing nicely albeit slowly, but that was expected, due to the many other commitments of life. I wish to point out a misprinting in the measuremnts in the stem patterns sheet, where it is wrongly stated that the two lower pieces are 13.5" wide, whereas it should be 15.5", otherwise you cannot meet the moulded size of 15" and 14.5" respectively.

Regards

Salvatore

[EdT]

Salvatore,

 

Thank you for pointing out the error on the two stem pattern sheets.  I have made the correction and will post corrected sheets here, as soon as I double check for other occurences of this.  The error arises from my confusion between 1'3.5" and 13.5".  I hope this has not caused too much inconvenience.

 

Egen,

 

Thank you for posting the picture.  There will be 9 full-sized drawings with Volume II.  I will post a list.  I am, however, confused by your question.  None of the Volume II drawings are needed to complete the work in Volume I.  Also, I do not understand the second question on the building jig.  If you can clarify, I will be glad to respond.  Are you asking about the building board or the drawing to use on it?

Sorry.

 

Ed

Edited December 28, 2013 by EdT

[EdT]

The Naiad Frigate - Addendum 3

 

Attached are corrected pdfs for the two stem patterns sheets.  The breadth of the pieces to be cut out for the lower stem were incorrectly shown as 13.5".  The dimension should be 1'3.5" (15.5").

 

Naiad 60 Stem Apron Patterns Starboard.pdf

 

Naiad 60 Stem Apron Patterns Port.pdf

 

Please replace the copies in the Stem Head Patterns folder on the CD.  Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

Also attached is a listing of the full-sized drawings included in Volume I and to be included in Volume II.  This excludes the many letter-sized patterns and detail sheets.

 

Naiad Frigate Drawing Lists.pdf

 

Volume II is proceeding well.  All of the chapters have been written and are being reviewed before submittal to the publisher.  Drawing checking is almost complete.  Keep an eye on the SeawatchBooks website for expected release.

 

Ed

Edited December 29, 2013 by EdT

[cabrapente]

hello ed.

I'd like to get your book.

Is there a Spanish edition?.

google translator is not effective with nautical words.

a greeting

cabrapente

[EdT]

Cabrapente,

 

No, I am sorry. There is only the English version.

 

Ed

[cabrapente]

no problem. still much work to FLEURON.

thanks for sharing.

a greeting cabrapente

[grisuzone]

Is There a Italian Edition?

[EdT]

No, I'm sorry, only English.

 

Ed

[EdT]

I had a question from a member in a pm concerning the thickness of the copper sheet I used for the Roberts plate knees that I installed on the upper deck beams.  The 0.005" thick copper translates to 0.3" at 1:60 and this seems quite thin for members of this type.  This is a very good question so I will share my answer here so that others may understand the logic used.

 

My response:

 

It was usual for plate knees to be inset into the sides of the beams and chocks.  The shape of the knee would be traced on to the wood and the wood then chiselled out to some depth - in some cases to the full depth - according to Peter Goodwin in a paper on the subject. 

 

Some pictures I have seen of Victory show these as flush or almost flush with the surface of the beams.  I believe the practice varied.  There is a good discussion of this in Goodwin's Sailing Man-0f-War, including some pictures.

 

I used the thin copper to simulate an almost-flush plate knee.  I did not contemplates insetting these at 1:60.  For an appearance of less inset, thicker material could be used.  Of course thicker material requires more etching time and uses up more etchant, but other than that you could make these thicker using the masks provided without a problem or fear of  being in authentic.

 

Here is a link to Goodwin's paper on the subject.

 

http://www.maritime.org/conf/conf-goodwin.htm

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ed

[egen]

We are now aiming for October 1 as the publication date for volume II of THE FRIGATE NAIAD by Ed Tosti. We hope at least to have a finished book to show at the NRG conference. Ed will be a guest speaker at the conference along with Alan Yedlinsky and Wayne Kempson,  who wrote the two volume set of  HMS EURYALUS. Go to the NRG web site for details on the conference

 

 

good news from SWB

[EdT]

Thanks, John.  Volume II should be out within a month.

 

Ed

[tlevine]

Will it be available in time for the NRG meeting?

[EdT]

Toni, keep an eye on the Seawatch website.  I believe Bob Friedman intends to have at least a sample with him at the conference.  However, these things are always subject to blips in the publishing process.

 

I am certainly hoping it will be available before then.

 

Ed

[Sailor1234567890]

Ed, I wanted to say that your work is incredible. I am in love with CUTTY SARK and clippers in general so I look forward to your YOUNG AMERICA build progressing. I want to see the finished model but the problem is that once it's finished, it's finished with nothing to look forward to. Not a terrible dilema.

 

I am a professional mariner who has a very keen interest in sailing ships. Reading your build log over the past few days (At work, don't tell the boss) I have noticed that model builders seem to have a disconnect from the sailors, knowlege wise. The function or operation of certain parts of a ship that may seem straightforward or obvious to a sailor seem to slip by a model builder un-noticed. Terminology as well. The thing that struck me as most glaring was your use of the term "Roundup" of a deck. I suspect what you meant was the curvature of the deck up toward the centerline of the vessel. This is correctly known as "camber". A deck is cambered to assist in the removal of water but also to help provide strength. It hit me over and over as I read it. Other things were less obvious and I can't think of them at this time.

 

All in all I can't wait to follow YA as you build her up. I beg you to rig her.  Plank her with perhaps a 3 or 4 inch swath of planking missing from around the waterline on one side and perhaps a few inches of planking missing from the decks. Just so we can see what you've got going on inside.

Cheers,

Daniel

[EdT]

Thank you, Daniel.  With regard to terminology, please keep in mind that I use that of the time and place, in this case the 18th Century England, so terms will often differ from those of today.  "Round up" was the common usage at that time - in contracts, marine dictionaries, and Naval Architecture references.   I am sure there are many instances of this in the books and in my postings on this site.  I have still not absorbed all of the American mid 19th century terms that apply to YA.  An example is "shoe" vs. "false keel".  Another - "fancy rail" vs. "roughtree rail"  I could go on.

 

As far as YA's configuration is concerned, one side will be left unplanked to reveal the structure.  I may leave some viewing panels on that side open to view the internal structure.  I have not decided whether to plank and sheath the starboard side.  I may leave it in frame below the waterline.  I am leaning toward rigging but have not yet decided.

 

Stay tuned.

 

Ed

[allanyed]

Daniel,

 

Ed is correct.

 

David Steel's Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture (1805). the Shipbuilder's Respository (1788) John Fincham's Introductory Outline of the Practice of Shipbuilding (1821) andthe  contemporary contracts that I have seen  use the term  "round up".  I have not seen camber in any of these publications. The 1745 and 1719 Establishments use the term rounding.  The Introduction to Steel Shipbuilding (1953), by Elijah Baker refers to this feature as round of the beam as well as camber.   I believe camber is more of a modern term in regards to this deck feature.

 

Allan

[druxey]

'Camber' was used in the 18th century to describe a negative or downward curve of a deck longitudinally. Some ships' decks curved down at the bow to allow the cables to come inboard through the hawseholes on the upper deck.

[EdT]

Thank you, Allan.  And Druxey - spot on!  Falconer's 18th C Universal Dictionary of the Marine:  "Cambered-Deck, the deck or flooring of a fhip is faid to be cambered when it is higher in the middle of the fhip's length and droops toward the ftem and ftern, or the two ends." 
 
Whatever will we all do with this (relatively) useless knowledge.
 
Daniel, you have awakened us all out of our post-holiday slumber.
 
Cheers,
 
Ed

Edited November 29, 2013 by EdT

[rtropp]

Ed,

Will the set of volumes include masts and rigging?

 

Richard T

[EdT]

Richard,

 

The Naiad model described in the two volumes was always intended to be a structural model - aka a fully-framed model - of the hull.  There is no plan to rig the model or for additional volumes.  There are many good sources of information to assist in masting and rigging.  There were standard specifications covering all of this for RN ships of various classes.  Probably the best primary - meaning 18th Century - source for this is Steel's Masting and Rigging.  Secondary sources include James Lees Masting and Rigging English Ships of War, Longridge's Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, David Antscherl's The Fully Framed Model Volume IV and others.  The last two describe modeling.  David White's Diana in the Anatomy of a ship series also describes masting and rigging for a ship of the same class and very similar to Naiad.

 

Ed

[rtropp]

thanks Ed