HMB Endeavour by BANYAN - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - 1:60 - circa 1768

[RGL]

Rigging line looks great. Is it your own?

[mtaylor]

Looks sweet, Pat.  I don't see the dents and dings you say are there.  Rigging is starting to take shape and looks good.

[BANYAN]

Thanks all for the positive feedback and likes; I very much appreciate you looking in.

 

@russ - thanks mate; but you are being kind Take a look at the second photograph, the port side violin block strop has a raggedy finish to the 'fag-end' and the associated stay has some fuzz when you look at the full sized image (just to the top and left of the Bee.  these were the last done and I had not checked them before fitting - but easily fixed.

 

@jimlad - thanks John, have a little- quieter time (work and 'admiral's jobs') at the moment so I am able to spend a few more hours in the shipyard

 

@greg lester - thanks Greg.  It is a mixed bag, most of the scale rope is made by myself, but some of the running rigging is from MoRope.  I can make LH laid rope quite well now (up to about 1.0 to 1.2mm dia.), but have not quite mastered RH.  I use Jim Byrnes ropewalk and it is a particularly finicky (overly so) machine and you have to have everything 'just right' to get good quality rope.

 

@mtaylor - thanks Mark, but you are being too nice .  I can see some very poor workmanship on some of the very early work I did; but as this is my first serious wood ship I have been learning and improving as I go.  I can definitely see some things which I just wish I had not accepted as 'acceptable' way back when

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited February 19, 2014 by BANYAN

[RodR]

Hi Pat,

 

Glad to see your progressing again after your little mishap.

Out of interest did you spray or brush on your clear coat on your hull?

 

Cheers

Rod

[BANYAN]

Hi Rod, thanks for looking in mate.  I have brushed it on as I go; usually to the individual parts.  I am contemplating a final all over spray as some recommend but I am still researching what long-term effects this may have on the rigging (worried it may go brittle with age).  I will need to mask or avoid the finely detailed items and faux glass etc in the stern windows.  I am also concerned that the white paint may yellow a bit with age with a coating of dull coat.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

I have been experimenting with jigs for weaving the sock on the mouse for the stays and preventers and have almost got to a final solution.  The first of the photos below shows an early attempt using plastic discs with slots cut (alternate slots to a deeper depth) - proved too flimsy and difficult to control.  The second jig is working out OK but I made the mistake of setting up an even number of strands to weave around.  The temporary fix is to skip one of the strands at the top, but this tends to leave a slightly more open weave along this axis.  I have to re make this jig with a spacing that will permit an odd count.  I have drilled an inner and an outer set of holes to facilitate weaving under/over but I have found at my scale (1:60) that this is too many strands; but, the additional holes will be useful for 1:48 builds. 

 

I hope the photos are self-evident.  One of the photos shows a finished Mizzen stay, but I will probably redo this, as close examination shows the uneven weave along one axis (although partially hidden by the loop).  These jig ideas are not original and I have borrowed ideas from several members build logs - thanks to all.

 

Please note that the larger thread/strands shown are only to enhance the photo, and the alternate colour is to enhance the weave pattern in the photo - I am using a much smaller thread for the actual mouse at this scale of 1:60.

Edited March 23, 2014 by BANYAN

[RGL]

Well done, they are a pain to do at this scale

[Jim Lad]

Very cunning, Pat.  

 

John

[scratch]

Lovely build Pat

 

 

David

[BANYAN]

Thanks all for looking in and the encouragement; I hope to have an update of the new jig in the not so distant future

[Cristiano]

Hello Pat,

you are doing a very very good work, very clean.

usually I don't make any comment on the build logs, since I prefer to simply watch.

But since you, as I did in the past, are making a kit bashed Endeavour, I want to warn you about the boomkins problem.

Following the drawings of the book, I installed the boomkins, with related rigging.

Unfortunately, the rigging of the boomkin don't allows a "free" movement of the anchor.

The anchor is "trapped" between the boomkin rigging.

The final result is rather "false" if evaluated by an expert sailor.

I didn't find a good solution, since it was too late to make modifications on the boomkins, as you can see in the photos made during the model making.

Probably a different bending angle was needed or a different lenght of the boomkin.

 

So, since you are still in time, check the theoretical rigging position of the boomkins!

Beware of the boomkins! they are tricky!

 

[BANYAN]

Hi Cristiano and thanks for looking in and your 'head's up' on the boomkin rigging.  I have already done mine (haven't posted a photo yet, so I will need to have another look at this.  Had not considered that as I am nowhere near rigging the anchors yet - many thanks for that and your positive comments on the build, they are much appreciated.

 

 

That's a very nice build of yours also; I'll go back and have a good look through your log and see if I can't identify any other future pitfalls I might run into

regards

 

Pat

Edited March 29, 2014 by BANYAN

[Cristiano]

Well,

I didn't make a build log in this forum (I arrived too late).

But I made it a couple of years ago in an Italian forum:

http://www.modellismo.net/forum/navi-e-velieri-work-progress/103078-endeavour-di-loki-corel-ma-non-molto.html

 

maybe the photos can be of help on the running rigging phase (and save you some of the headhaches that I  had ).

But you should consider that the Corel Endeavour is a very old project, made many years before the project of you kit, and many years before the making of the Australian floating replica.

So my manufacturing problems were sometime different, since my starting kit was a bit different.

[RGL]

I'm now facing the same predicament as I've completed the anchors, and I think the cable will have to be slung under the rigging for the bumpkins. The foremast tackle is used to hook onto the bottom of the anchor and lift it up to the gunnel. I'll see how it goes as it does look clumsy

[BANYAN]

Thanks for the link Cristiano; I'll enjoy looking through  your build.

 

Greg, yep - it's a bit of a predicament and the solution you are considering (in your build log) sounds valid.  I am going to look through some of my books on Seamanship and see what they have to offer - get back to you on my thoughts.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[shipaholic]

Hi Pat

Can I weigh in on this one (excuse the pun) on the bumpkins

Ships at anchor were very much at the mercy of the wind blowing the ship around, and it wasn't just a matter of dropping the anchor and then hauling it straight up again when weighing anchor. These diagrams from the book "The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor" illustrate that fact. It seems anchor cables easily became tangled due to the ships moving around when at anchor, they even made the bobstay more adjustable on small ships like Endeavour that didn't have a figurehead so that it didn't foul the anchor cable. I cant imagine how the anchors on Endeavour would have been managed AT ALL with bumpkins fitted as shown in the AOTS.

Cheers

Steve

Edited April 1, 2014 by shipaholic

[RGL]

I reckon they were only attached when they were being used!

[Dan Vadas]

I reckon they were only attached when they were being used!

 

Good point Greg - Boomkins were easily detached and replaced.

 

Here are two pics of the Endeavour Replica - no boomkins in evidence :

 

 

 

  Danny

[BANYAN]

Hi All and amany thanks for the feedback; I much appreciate all comment on these matters.  I have only just restarted researching this one but I have had some interesting points to consider.

 

WRT the presence or not of the boomkins; this debate has been held for some time  and there is no way we will ever know for sure (unless someone invents time travel ) - I honestly do not know whom has the stronger argument for or against.

 

Danny and Steve (please weigh in any time ), yes the replica does not have them but this is not conclusive evidence as to how the actual ship was rigged - just another interpretation -  and, there is other evidence that suggests that they might have been fitted.  Have a close look at an enhanced/enlarged drawing of the ship bow on by Parkinson (Endeavour's artist for the Australia voyage) and it suggests they were fitted. 

 

I have not satisfied myself completely on this matter, but based on that drawing I had previously decided to go that path and I am now committed

 

As to working the anchor, yes I agree, the anchor cables can wrap around the bow  etc - this still happens in modern warships - but you can fit a bridle to minimise/eliminate this..  When raising the anchor, the final part of the evolution is with the cable/anchor always straight up-and-down once the anchor is underfoot/aweigh.  However, in getting the ship to this position may sometimes require hauling the anchor cable on an angle that may interfere with the boomkin shrouds.  It is not the actual dropping/final recovery of the anchor cable lead that worries me but rather catting and preparing the anchor for dropping, and to a lesser extent how to manage the forward boomkin shroud to cater for the cable wrapping around the bow etc, and some of the working leads required in dropping/recovering the anchors.  One line of thought I have seen is that the aft boomkin shroud may actually be a removable tackle worked from the deck which could be removed during anchor work (as part of preparing to drop anchor) as working the affected sails/rigging during the evolution and while at anchor is unnecessary and would not require the boomkin to be supported/stressed (shrouds could be removed?).

[Dan Vadas]

Pat, I wasn't suggesting that the boomkins weren't fitted - just removable when not needed or when the ship was at anchor or docked.

 

  Danny

[BANYAN]

Ah, thanks Danny - that is an interesting line of thought - and a VERY practical one - this warrants a lot more thought and is possibly the answer to the riddle .

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Errol pechey]

Hi Banyan

 

Just been reading your build log on the "Endeavour", and am finding it very interesting. I have been building my H.M. Bark Endeavour now for the past 2 months and have progressed as far as the first layer of strakes.

 

I was given a 1:48 kit of the Endeavour to assemble, but at first was a bit nervous to tackle such a complicated model as a first build. So far the exellent instructions and pictures guide one through the process and is making it a great deal easier for a beginner.

 

Note of your and others comments in your build log and correspondence, will surely help when I get to those details. 

 

Happy modeling

 

Errol Pechey

[BANYAN]

Hi Errol, that's a good start mate and I glad to hear that my build notes may be of assistance to you; there are also a couple of other very good builds happening which may assist you also (you have probably seen them).  

 

Are you planning on filling the bow with filler blocks faired to the dimensions of the first planking?  If not, you may wish to consider extending the first layer planks to the bow (bend at the point where you currently finish) to allow a good contact area (for the glue) to hold these planks in place where they bend.  Please feel free to PM if you need any clarifications to any of my posts.

 

cheers and happy modelling  (and a belated welcome to the Endeavour build club )

 

Pat

[mikec]

Hi Pat, how did you put the bend in the bowsprit? THe eagle moss kit at 1/48 calls for 12mm dia x200m dowel which is very thick and short to bend. according to my scaling from AOTS this is too thick so I was thinking of sanding the curve in using the access diameter i.e. sanding the middle underneath and the top side for and aft to achieve the slight curve.

what do you reckon?

[BANYAN]

Hi Mike,

 

I made a rough bending jig from scrap wood with rounded guides placed where required - the gentler the curve of the 'round' the better -  which I simply clamp to my workbench or place in a large vise.  I then soaked the wood in boiling water for about 20 minutes and then used thin clear rubber hose (fish tank type) off-cuts which I sliced in half longitudinally to place over the dowel where the holding 'bits and bobs' would be to minimise any wood bruising/marking.  I had to repeat this about 3 times to get the bend. I will try to take a photo of the jig etc tomorrow when I get home from work.  I use a cheap single burner camp stove (butane can) burner with an old dish shaped pan (pinched from the Admirals stock - shhh! -  well she did get a new one out of it  )

 

I am not sure which woods are available to you but I have used walnut ( a beast to bend but you do get there ) and Huon Pine - I use the latter exclusively for my masts now - a tad softer than hardwoods but more dense then most pines and a joy to 'work'.  For harder woods I found the longer the tapered dowel the easier to bend (but there is a limit before it becomes prone to snapping - trial and error I am afraid) and I could afford to slightly damage the very ends with greater pressure if require (cut off later) - the greater length is the trick I find (but it has to be pre-tapered) and I have been able to bend dowels up to 18mm max diameter of taper) successfully without resorting to undercutting, grooving or crushing the wood etc

 

One thing though, and apologies if this is telling you how to suck eggs.   I found that it is better to not try to fully shape the jib boom/sprit.  I tapered it then bent it, then cut it to length and shaped the joints with the deck and for the bees etc.  I tried it the other way (doing all the shaping first but just could not accurately predict the overall length, joint angles etc before the bend was applied.

 

cheers and good luck

 

Pat

[mikec]

hi, I have a question - all my rigging references for ships of the Endeavour period shows an open heart for the collars for the stays that rig to the bowsprit (fore stay and preventer) and the AOTS doesn't show what kind of set up ....

[BANYAN]

Hi Mike,

 

page 100 of the AOTS shows the bobstay collar (item 8 of drawing H3/3 and also drawn separately on the same page) and other collars as open hearts.  I would assume as that the Fore stay (item 2 of drawing H3/2), and fore preventer (item 1 of drawing H3/2) collars would also be open based on this.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited July 13, 2014 by BANYAN

[mikec]

Hi thanks for helping me, sorry, I am a bit confused open as per  n or  closed as per  0   ?

[BANYAN]

Sorry Mike, my poor word use.  I intended open as in a hole in the middle vice three lead (small holes).  The Marquardt AOTS shows the heart as closed (as in a fully enclosed with single large aperture or 0 as you have asked).

 

I hope this clarifies the issue?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited July 14, 2014 by BANYAN

[BANYAN]

Hi folks, I am about to head off on some holidays so I thought I had better post an update of my latest additions to my Endeavour.  the rigging is proving to be a challenge in determining what goes where as this is my first rigged model.

cheers

 

Pat