HMS Montague/ Alfred class by Gary B - 74 gun ship built in 1779 (garyshipwright)

[the learner]

Hello every one and thank you very much. Sorry about not getting back to you sooner. Hi Guy. Seems my log is a whole lot shorter sir and seems that I didn't put in any photo's of building up the stern dead wood. I do have photos showing the templates of the parts and pieces and how her stern deadwood was mounted in a groove that was milled in to the last piece of her keel. there was a male part to this cut on to the bottom of the dead wood itself to help me align this so it would be center on her keel. Hope you enjoy them sir. Seems I just may have to look and see what other items I may of missed in rebuilding her log and thanks Guy for letting me know about this one.

Gary, thank you for reposting these pictures on the stern deadwood

[garyshipwright]

Thanks guys. There is a couple of places around here that's up for sell Clipper. At the moment the closes ship modeler lives about two hours away. Hopping maybe just maybe I can get to the NRG get together this year but will have to wait and see at the moment.

Thanks Robin, I also like Ed T's build log. He has given me some great ideals that has help me with some area's that I have come across.

Thanks Ed, but does seem that you are a little on the nice side but do enjoy your build very very much. Also look fwd to your next book when it comes out.

 

Hi Guy. Your very welcome sir and if there are any other pleaces that you wish to see, just let me know sir.

To show more on her Orlop deck going aft, this shows the last of the store rooms on this deck. One thing that I did detail on these store rooms was the windows and the door knobs. One can just feel how hot it got down here with only the gratings suppling air flow. Reminds me of being in the attic running circuts for some ones house.

 

 

[dgbot]

Great work Gary.

David B

[garyshipwright]

Hi Guys. Another update for you and this time as far back as we can go on the orlop, but has more to do with strengthen the transom's more then the Orlop deck. Some call them sleeper beams and Goodwin call's them transom knee's, which you can see on page 108 in his book Sailing Man of War,1650-1850.In the photo's you will also see the last beam of the gun deck along with knee's for the deck transom and the knees for the last deck beams. Most 3rd rates had three of them per side. Hope you enjoy the photo's folks.

 

 

 

 

 

[jaerschen]

Hi Gary,

 

it's a real treat to see this photos.

Thank you very much that you make the trouble to reload this photos

 

Juergen

[Trussben]

Looking just Awesome there Gary, nice shot of those transom knees, helpful to see the placement of them.

 

Ben

[Jim Lad]

Still enjoying the lovely cabinetmaking, Gary!

 

John

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Gary, it's a big pleasure to see the wonderful pictures of your beautyful model again and again and ...

Your model and accuracy is a big inspiration for me.

[garyshipwright]

Thanks guy's. Just to let you know that Montagu isbeing worked on here is some pictures out of sync with the rest of the build photos,showing the build up of her 32 pound gun. Am in the research phase of figuring out the sizes of every thing that fits with the gun. It does seem that not every one agree's on the sizes of the fittings that fits with this type of gun. One item that I have been looking for and just a matter of time before I find it, is the size of the hooks that the block and tackle used. Just like the blocks, some say 6 inch blocks and other say 8 inch blocks, which is probably what I go with. Any way here is some photo of how the cannon looks minus the rigging which as soon as I get the right type of end mill to make the blocks, they will be rigged to the cannons. One thing is for sure, there sure is a lot of parts and pieces to them. Gary

 

[russ]

Gary:

In the NRJ's Shipmodeler's Shopnotes, there is an article that you may have seen, "Gun Tackles and Breechings" by Edwin Newell Rich. It quotes two contemporary sources, Sea Gunner's Vade Mecum by Robert Simmons, 1812, saying that the tackles for the 32 pounders were 2 1/2" in circumference, and Naval Pocket Gunner by Atkinson & Clarke, 1814, they call for 3 inch circumference on 32 pounders. Both are British sources.

 

You can use those circumferences to get to rope diameter and then sheave diameter and block length.

 

Russ

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Russ. Its a good article and the info will come in handy but one item that is not mention is the diameter of the metal of the hooks that was used. Am sure its here some place so will look some more. Do thank you sir. Funny thing is Russ, the simplest things are some times the hardest. ;o)Gary

[russ]

Gary:

I have never seen a listing for the sizes of hooks. That is something that was probably not dealt with back then since it was just so common. I would think you could use the specs for loops and bolts on the carriages and work it out from there.

 

For what it is worth, I have seen hooks used on old blocks from about 100 years ago. The metal was about 1-1 1/2" in diameter. Is that the kind of thing you need to know?

 

Russ

[garyshipwright]

Russ. Do believe your right sir on the listing of the hooks. Does seem that a lot of things that was common then has become a mestery today. I even looked in Boudriot book, 74 gun ship and couldn't find the French sizes either. As far as you seeing the size of the hooks used on old blocks is probably what they were, a inch to a inch and half, and probably go with that. Yes sir it is the kind of thing one needs to know to figure out what size brass wire to use. Thank you sir for the help. Gary

[russ]

Gary:

I would go a bit smaller on the wire size. That will probably have a better scale effect. At your scale, I bet something like 22 gauge would be in the right neighborhood. Trust your eye on this one.

 

Russ

[daHeld]

You might also take a look at some of the fotos of HMS Victory's 32 pdrs. If you take the known diameter of the tackle rope and compare it to the hook, you should be able to guage the thickness of the metal quite well.

 

And by the way, your Alfred is one of the most astounding models I've ever seen. Marvelous. It can hold its own against any of the contemporary models with ease.

 

Yours,

Andy

[Anja]

Hello Gary,

 

Happy birtday

 

Have a wonderful day.

 

Anja

[gjdale]

Happy Birthday Gary! Been a while since we've seen an update on your beautiful Alfred, how 'bout a progress report (with pics)?!!!!

Edited June 22, 2013 by gjdale

[EdT]

Looking good, Gary.

 

I am sure you have seen this, but Steel calls for eye and ringbolts to be made from 1 3/8" rod on the lower deck and 1 1/4" on the upper for 74's. In the absence of better information I would make the hooks the same diameter.

 

Ed

[runner63]

And a Happy Birthday from me also Gary.

 

runner63

[harvey1847]

Happy Birthday for yesterday Gary!

 

Always following your log. On the post #94 on pics P1230020.JPG (the plan) and the P8240070.JPG, the space between the cabins and the frames is it supposed to be the "carpenter´s walk"? Does it go all the way from the stern to the stem? Here´s a Spanish 74 of the same period. The narow passage is clearly seen. It was used to check possible damages under the water line during combat actions. I was just corious about it.

 

 

Beautyful work.

 

 

Daniel.

Edited June 23, 2013 by harvey1847

[garyshipwright]

Thanks every one, hopfully many more in the future. At the moment life has sort of got in the way but hoping for some time to work on her in the near future. Thanks Ed, as soon as I get back to the cannon's I keep those sizes in mind. Daniel the carpenter´s walk did go around the orlop deck but not so much like the one you show above. There was a lot of places that was not walled in and one had a good view, of the outside wall. On 74's of Montagu time there wasn't a wall all the way around the orlop deck. Here is some photo's that show how Montagu looked. In the first picture it shows the stanchion's that separated the cable tier from the carpenter's walk, followed by the fwd store rooms and finally the aft store rooms with the carpenter's walk on the outside. Have also included the plan of her orlop deck so you can compare the two. Sort of wish I had added more of the detail on this deck,like metal work and maybe even some cables, in the tier. Of course it would have been even longer to finish this deck then the couple of years that it took. Gary

Edited February 21, 2015 by garyshipwright

[harvey1847]

Thanks Gary.

 

Looking the pics again with all that cabins, store rooms, passages, ventilation .... WOW!  The complex of detailing just one deck is enormous. Two years demonstrated this. Thanks for sharing that plans.

 

My next build will be a 74 but I guess I´ll have, at least, to wait four years more. First things first. And I am enjoying the Triton a lot.

 

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Daniel.

[WackoWolf]

Gary,

 

    Happy late Birthday. It is always a pleasure to see your post, I have been following it since I first started on MSW 1 back in 08. When you get back to her Please keep the Pictures coming, I am always watching.

[michael mott]

Gary the incredible amount of detail that your are putting into the interior I hope that you can see it as you work on the upper levels it seems that it would be sad not to be able to see it later.

 

Beautiful workmanship needs to be seen, Although to quote Ruskin and I am paraphrasing here "Just because something is out of sight doesn't mean that you should do any less quality work on it"

 

Michael

[CaptainPowell]

My cousin William Powell, sailed to India on the Alfred on 22nd December 1853 with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers "23rd of foot". 

[druxey]

Definitely you are correct, Robin: this 1853 mention was a successor Alfred, the third of the name.

[The Ships Cat]

I accidentally stumbled upon this build about two or so years back, I'm so pleased to see it once again.

 

Shipwright, master carpenter, teacher and mentor don't even begin to describe your many talents Gary.

 

Best wishes with the rest of the build, simply incredible.

 

TSC

[garyshipwright]

Thanks every one. I have not given up on my log and thought it was time for another update, this time moving up to the gun deck. As am trying to do the gun ports first before adding the outside planking, which sort of slow's down things some what. I have also uploaded a photo showing a close up of one port showing how the English would have fitted the upper and lower cills to the frames. Once these were done then the beams were laid followed by ledges, knees, carlings and other items that was built on this deck.

[garyshipwright]

After the beams were installed and fitted in place, they were left loose so I could pull them out for cutting the notches for the carlings on the out side of the ship. I also added the hanging and lodging knees to the ends of the beams and seems that it took awhile to get the pieces to a point were they could be glued in place. At the same time the bitt's were added along with the fore mast partner which was sandwich in between the knees of the bitt's. Most probably know that the cross member of the bitts were not nailed in place but held in place by eyebots and hooks which I added  them. Since all the pull was on the bitts them self seems like a good thing to do and did save time if the cross members needed to be changed out.

[druxey]

Very, very nice, Gary! And the riding bitt crosspieces took a lot of abuse. They had a wear strip on the aft side as well that were easily changed, as well as the main crosspiece, as you mention.