Beef Wellington Posted April 1, 2016 Share #1711 Posted April 1, 2016 Mark - feel your pain but commend the redo, although the original really does look good. Licorne is really looking rather grand. cog, Piet, Elijah and 7 others 10 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMBROOK Posted April 1, 2016 Share #1712 Posted April 1, 2016 She is looking grand Mark The rudder is just a minor setback,I have the utmost respect for you for going ahead and reworking it.It makes me think,back in the day before internet forums,you just used to see pics of completed models in books and magazines and the reader assumed wrongly that everything went smoothly with the build.I wonder how many were discouraged when their efforts didn't meet muster the first time around? I now view a project as just that,to build a model of 'X',whatever has to find it's way in the scrap bin between start and completion is immaterial Kind Regards Nigel CaptainSteve, GLakie, Elijah and 7 others 10 Quote Currently working on Royal Caroline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share #1713 Posted April 1, 2016 Thanks for following this journey, the likes and the comments. A brave decision, a bold decision but a wise decision. Your redo will be perfect, making the model perfect. Most, if not all of us had to go through a redo or two or more and those who haven't experienced it yet, will. Cheers, Piet, I find that making that decision to re-do is getting easier and easier. It's almost scary how easy it is to say "yup.. not good" and rip it out. Mark, I am late to your party but request permission to come aboard. I've been through the thread from start to present and it reads like a text book. Thank your for your thorough documentation. I can see many lessons that are going to be valuable to me. Respectfully, John Maguire Welcome aboard, John. No permission needed. Somewhere in this mess is a popcorn machine from Sjors and some cold adult beverages. This truly is a learning build. I thought Version 1.0 was the learning version.. not so. It taught me some things but this one is teaching me more. If someone at some point down the road picks up on one of my mistakes and then does not make that same mistake, this log will have been worth it. She is looking grand Mark The rudder is just a minor setback,I have the utmost respect for you for going ahead and reworking it.It makes me think,back in the day before internet forums,you just used to see pics of completed models in books and magazines and the reader assumed wrongly that everything went smoothly with the build.I wonder how many were discouraged when their efforts didn't meet muster the first time around? I now view a project as just that,to build a model of 'X',whatever has to find it's way in the scrap bin between start and completion is immaterial Kind Regards Nigel Nigel, I daresay you are correct. The books never discussed the "scrap bin" or why it got full. Well, the fun continues. The wood has been milled to thickness and I'm cutting the 3 parts for the rudder and fitting them. Pictures when I get something to show. Omega1234, slow2cool, Canute and 10 others 13 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
src Posted April 2, 2016 Share #1714 Posted April 2, 2016 Mark, Getting caught up here. I thought the rudder looked pretty good, the next will be even better. I am trying to learn from you and embrace re-dos, its one of those opportunities that life rarely gives you. Sam Piet, Elijah, GLakie and 3 others 6 Quote Current Build Constructo Enterprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share #1715 Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) Small update in the overall scheme of things. The new rudder is ready for the metal work and some additional holes. For example the two tiller holes are drilled but need squaring up with some file work and a couple of small holes for the eyebolts/ringbolts need drilling All things considered and compared to the elder brother rudder, I'm happy with this. There is one minor defect that will be hidden by the rudder coat. And no, i"m not going to forget this bit..... The opening for the pintles is shaped now like the French ones and not like the English properly. I also used boxwood from three different sheets/scraps in order to have some variation between the three slabs of wood. Edit: Actually... I'm wrong. Both the English and the French did that same way. The square openings are the way many kits do them. I have much to unlearn... as well as learn. For the metal work, I'm going with smaller diameter pintles and cudgoens than on the first version. the irons (straps), I'll make from the same material as before. Also, I'm considering right now eliminating the bolts holding the irons to the rudder and hull because even though the I'm using are the tiniest I can find, as this scale they are still too large. i believe if my measurements and eyes are to be believed they work out to having the heads 3" in diameter and standing proud at out 1.5". I'll be using epoxy for securing the metal to the wood, although I need to test first and make sure that it will hold. Edited April 2, 2016 by mtaylor popeye the sailor, mobbsie, Gerhardvienna and 60 others 63 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
src Posted April 2, 2016 Share #1716 Posted April 2, 2016 The opening for the pintles is shaped now like the French ones and not like the English. Me Likey!! What is the difference between the English and French openings? the slight angle? Or have I missed something? Sam Elijah, mtaylor, Canute and 6 others 9 Quote Current Build Constructo Enterprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted April 2, 2016 Share #1717 Posted April 2, 2016 Off to a good start on the rudder again, Mark. Your four footed friend will be very happy and keep his teeth far from it I reccon ... Cheers Omega1234, GLakie, Jack12477 and 6 others 9 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share #1718 Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) Actually... I'm wrong. Both the English and the French did that same way. The square openings are the way many kits do them. I have much to unlearn... as well as learn. I edited my previous post to reflect my error. Edited April 2, 2016 by mtaylor Omega1234, Elijah, cog and 11 others 14 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted April 2, 2016 Share #1719 Posted April 2, 2016 No error Mark, just a 'clarification' Well, after all this I think you have graduated from Jedi Master to 'redo Master' - may the 'wood' be with you! cheers Pat Canute, EJ_L, Sjors and 10 others 13 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg the peg leg sailor Posted April 3, 2016 Share #1720 Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) Again great work on the rudder Mark. I'm amazed how much details there are in a rudder! Goodonyamate Greg Edited April 8, 2016 by Greg the peg leg sailor Quote "Nothing is impossible, it's only what limitations that you put on yourself make it seems impossible! " Current log : The Royal Yacht Royal Caroline 1749 1:32 by Greg Ashwood:... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piet Posted April 4, 2016 Share #1721 Posted April 4, 2016 The new rudder looks exceptionally good. re the bolts, Remco demonstrated a few months ago how he simulated bolts from brass rod by using the bur as the head after roll-cutting the rod. I used very thin brass plated sewing pins that I filed down a little. However, they wont be missed by omitting them. Yup, I feel the same way on the redo's, have no qualm in doing it. Cheers, Omega1234, CaptainSteve, Elijah and 8 others 11 Quote Piet, The Flying Dutchman. "Your greatest asset is not the quantity of your friends , rather the quality of your friends." (old Chinese proverb) Current Builds: Hr. Ms. Java 1925-1942 VOC Ship Surabaya Planned Builds: Young America Diorama - scale 1:3000 Future Builds: KPM ship "MS Musi." Zuiderzee Botter - scale 1:25. VOC Jacht in a 6" lamp, Buginese fishing Prauw. Hr. Ms. Java - Royal Navy Netherlands Cruiser. Completed Builds: Hr. Ms. O16 Submarine Hr. Ms. O19 - Submarine Royal Navy Netherlands Ship Yard Diorama with Topsail schooner - Friendship Sloop Gwenfra Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack Golden Hind - Cutte Sark (both not in this forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye the sailor Posted April 4, 2016 Share #1722 Posted April 4, 2016 super redo on the rudder. hope the rest goes smoothly mtaylor, Omega1234, JesseLee and 5 others 8 Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted April 10, 2016 Author Share #1723 Posted April 10, 2016 Thanks for the comments and the "likes"... Here's the rudder ready to hang. Once the cudgeons are on the hull, I'll add the rudder coat and mount it. I'll probably pin it to the sternpost from the inside of the hull just to keep it in place as I'll be flipping the hull over a few more times before cutting it loose and mounting it to a cradle. I made a judgement call after testing on some scrap about the bolts. Not going to happen. If the bolts are visible, they're oversize by an order of magnitude. If' they're just the right size, they're invisible. I also did some testing to compare Jax Black to Birchwood Casey Black. Not much difference except maybe the Birchwood Casey is a bit blacker and also seems to cover silver solder better. Been a busy of testing this stuff. Ok.. pictures..... First piccy shows the old and the new together. I'm happier with the new and the old is hitting the scrap box. The second pic has a dummy sternpost next to it. I've got a big smile on that one. Canute, JesseLee, UpstateNY and 53 others 56 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg the peg leg sailor Posted April 10, 2016 Share #1724 Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) G'day Mark. Lawrence is absolutely correct of what he said in his entry. Couldn't agree more! If I thought (and I did) that your last rudder was good, this one is outstanding and it's a lesson for us all. Never give up, there's always room to improve. You're right Mark on your signature line when you said wood is patient, but sadly I'm not! Havagooday Greg Edited April 10, 2016 by Greg the peg leg sailor Quote "Nothing is impossible, it's only what limitations that you put on yourself make it seems impossible! " Current log : The Royal Yacht Royal Caroline 1749 1:32 by Greg Ashwood:... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted April 10, 2016 Share #1725 Posted April 10, 2016 That looks great Mark, a marked improvement (sorry, no pun intended0. Your testing seems to be paying dividends. I use Birchwood casey almost exclusively now for th reasons you have given. cheers Pat WackoWolf, GLakie, Omega1234 and 7 others 10 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted April 10, 2016 Share #1726 Posted April 10, 2016 You are right, time to :) :) ... You've managed another feat! And as I predicted no for legged friend's marks on it. It does look oustanding, Mark. You've got the right to be happy and proud, as you have managed to improve on yourself jet again ... - you wouldn't want to have another go to see if you can out do yourself even more ...(?) - That rudder coat will be a piece of cake... you've got plenty of space to put it in the right spot ... Looking forward to the next step ... wonderful ... Cheers JesseLee, CaptainSteve, Elijah and 5 others 8 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobbsie Posted April 10, 2016 Share #1727 Posted April 10, 2016 Nice replacement rudder Mark. If we learn from the mistakes we make why the hell do we keep making them. Can you imagine our build rate without these mistakes, I cant. Be Good mobbsie mtaylor, Seventynet, GLakie and 6 others 9 Quote mobbsie All mistakes are deliberate ( me ) Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle Completed Builds :- Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ), Granado Cross Section 1/48 Harwich Bawley, Restoration, Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration, Will Everard 1/67 Billings HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft Kit, HM Brig Badger, HM Bomb Vessel Granado, Thames Steam Launch Louise, Thames Barge Edme, Viking Dragon Boat Next Build :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose_b Posted April 10, 2016 Share #1728 Posted April 10, 2016 Well done! With every step you'll feel more confident. Gerhardvienna, Canute, CaptainSteve and 4 others 7 Quote Building Le François: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9952-le-fran%C3%A7ois-by-jose-scale-1-48-1683/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerhardvienna Posted April 10, 2016 Share #1729 Posted April 10, 2016 Hi Mark The new version of the rudder looks a lot better than the first one. Well done! Regards Gerhard GLakie, mtaylor, Canute and 2 others 5 Quote Problems just mean: solutions not yet found Models in progress SMS DANZIG http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12842-sms-danzig-1851-by-gerhardvienna-radio-150-scale/ USS CAIRO http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13282-uss-cairo-by-gerhardvienna-live-steam-radio/ Baby Bootlegger 1/10 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13625-baby-bootlegger-110-radio-by-gerhardvienna/ Swiss paddlesteamer RIGI 1848 1:50, after plans from the Verkehrshaus Zürich, rescaled to original length Anchor tugboat BISON, 1:50, plans from VTH, scratch Finished models See-Ewer ELBE, Constructo kit 1:48 German fastboat after plans from german Reichskriegsmarine measure unknown (too ugly to show up!) German traffic boat for battleships WW2, 1:50, after plans from Jürgen Eichardt, scratch German Schnellboot TIGER P6141 VTH plans, scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted April 10, 2016 Share #1730 Posted April 10, 2016 It's hard to believe you could make much improvement to your great work, but you did ! Canute, mtaylor, robin b and 2 others 5 Quote -Elijah Current build(s): Continental Gunboat Philadelphia by Model Shipways https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/15753-continental-gunboat-philadelphia-by-elijah-model-shipways-124-scale/ Completed build(s): Model Shipways Phantom http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?showtopic=12376 Member of: The Nautical Research Guild N.R.M.S.S. (Nautical Research and Model Ship Society) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye the sailor Posted April 10, 2016 Share #1731 Posted April 10, 2016 rudder looks super Mark. glad to hear your going to be setting her upright soon. Elijah, Ray1981, Piet and 5 others 8 Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giampieroricci Posted April 11, 2016 Share #1732 Posted April 11, 2016 Well done, Mark!!! Perfect!!! Canute, GLakie, Omega1234 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted April 11, 2016 Share #1733 Posted April 11, 2016 lovely rework on the rudder, lol I would love to use all the bits from your scrap box, as everything would be better than what I produce CaptainSteve, Elijah, mtaylor and 8 others 11 Quote Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on All the best Kevin SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On the build table HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 HMHS Britannic by Kevin SD 14 - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 - Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72 U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48 Amerigo Vespucci 1/84 - Panart- HMS Enterprise -CAF - 1/48 Finished St-Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020 HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseLee Posted April 11, 2016 Share #1734 Posted April 11, 2016 I was thinking the same thing Kevin! Jesse mtaylor, GLakie, Canute and 5 others 8 Quote Current build: Syren : Kit- Model Shipways Side project: HMS Bounty - Revel -(plastic) On hold: Pre-owned, unfinished Mayflower (wood) Past builds: Scottish Maid - AL- 1:50, USS North Carolina Battleship -1/350 (plastic), Andromede - Dikar (wood), Yatch Atlantic - 14" (wood), Pirate Ship - 1:72 (plastic), Custom built wood Brig from scratch - ?(3/4" =1'), 4 small scratch builds (wood), Vietnamese fishing boat (wood) & a Ship in a bottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
src Posted April 11, 2016 Share #1735 Posted April 11, 2016 Me too! The grass is always Greener!! Sam Elijah, Sjors, Canute and 6 others 9 Quote Current Build Constructo Enterprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md1400cs Posted April 12, 2016 Share #1736 Posted April 12, 2016 Mark, Yes indeed - super rudder upgrade nicely done! MIchael Elijah, Canute, JesseLee and 4 others 7 Quote Michael Current build : Sovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal Under the table: Golden Hind - C Mamoli Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati Completed: Santa Maria-Mantua -- Vasa-Corel - Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th Gallery : Santa Maria - Vasa - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maguire Posted April 12, 2016 Share #1737 Posted April 12, 2016 By all means, can't wait to see more . . . Respectfully, John Maguire Seattle Omega1234, Gerhardvienna, Canute and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share #1738 Posted April 12, 2016 Thanks for the likes and the comments. Still working on the rudder. One more cudgeon iron and then some wipe on poly since I had to fill holes from the first attempt and I want the epoxy to stick. I'll do some progress pictures at that point. Nice replacement rudder Mark. If we learn from the mistakes we make why the hell do we keep making them. Can you imagine our build rate without these mistakes, I cant. Be Good mobbsie Mobbsie, if any of us ever figures out how not keep making the same mistakes, we could make a fortune. rudder looks super Mark. glad to hear your going to be setting her upright soon. "Soon" is relative, Denis. I'd really like to get the galleries, some decorations and the head area on the exterior done and also the orlop (berth?) deck and gundeck in first. <fingers crossed> lovely rework on the rudder, lol I would love to use all the bits from your scrap box, as everything would be better than what I produce Nah.. you wouldn't really. Lots of broken bits of wood, cut-offs. On the plus side, the scrap makes excellent kindling for the fireplace. GLakie, Canute, popeye the sailor and 6 others 9 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share #1739 Posted April 12, 2016 Update.... Rudder temporarily installed (the blue tape keeps it from falling off). I'll hit the hull with some Wipe-on-Poly and start working on the rudder coat. GLakie, Piet, BANYAN and 30 others 33 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray1981 Posted April 12, 2016 Share #1740 Posted April 12, 2016 wow great job mark it looks realy tremendous GLakie, Canute, Elijah and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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