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Licorne (1755) by mtaylor - (POF) - 3/16 - French Frigate (Hahn) - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED


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If you don't get that one to your liking, mayby 'Fleece line' could help ... or for that matter mouseline (muslin?) ... - getting old, should have thought about these sooner(!)

 

Cheers

Carl

"Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson
Search and you might find a log ...

 

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Great outcome Mark, patience and determination ...I think you have earned an extra tot today :)

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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That looks really good Mark

Jesse

 Current build: Syren : Kit- Model Shipways

 

Side project: HMS Bounty - Revel -(plastic)

On hold: Pre-owned, unfinished Mayflower (wood)

 

Past builds: Scottish Maid - AL- 1:50, USS North Carolina Battleship -1/350  (plastic),   Andromede - Dikar (wood),   Yatch Atlantic - 14" (wood),   Pirate Ship - 1:72 (plastic),   Custom built wood Brig from scratch - ?(3/4" =1'),   4 small scratch builds (wood),   Vietnamese fishing boat (wood)   & a Ship in a bottle

 

 

 

 

 

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gee Mark....I must have been mistaken..........this one does look better.  ;)

I yam wot I yam!

finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build

Billing T78 Norden

 

in dry dock:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch

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Mark,

Looks great my friend! You're right about scale. went out to the shop and pulled a mantel out...but would work nicely I think at 1:48 or 1:32! I pledge never to work in 1:64th AGAIN, lol ;)

 

Beautiful work Mark and way to stick with it!

 

 

Bill

Passion is Patience...and I am a carpenter in any scale.

 

 

Current build;  Endurance - 1:70 scale, Occre

 

Current build;    H.M.S. Surprise - 1796, 1:48 A L

                                    

 

 

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Mark,

 

Awesome detail work. Well done indeed.

 

Michael

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

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I couldn't find much info on rudder coats when I did mine. Wish I had taken more time to research it before I went ahead & made it. The information we learn from your research is just as pleasing as the work you do.

 

Jesse

 Current build: Syren : Kit- Model Shipways

 

Side project: HMS Bounty - Revel -(plastic)

On hold: Pre-owned, unfinished Mayflower (wood)

 

Past builds: Scottish Maid - AL- 1:50, USS North Carolina Battleship -1/350  (plastic),   Andromede - Dikar (wood),   Yatch Atlantic - 14" (wood),   Pirate Ship - 1:72 (plastic),   Custom built wood Brig from scratch - ?(3/4" =1'),   4 small scratch builds (wood),   Vietnamese fishing boat (wood)   & a Ship in a bottle

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the likes and the comments.

 

Looks good, Mark. The cloth weave looks like a used clothes dryer sheet. I knew you'd do it! :) :)

 

It's actually an old handkerchief that I had in the shop and used it as a shop towel for smaller bits, Ken.  

 

Great outcome Mark, patience and determination ...I think you have earned an extra tot today :)

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

:cheers:  Thanks, Pat.

 

That beats carving and painting one. Well done.

Sam

 

Sam, I think you're right.  

 

I couldn't find much info on rudder coats when I did mine. Wish I had taken more time to research it before I went ahead & made it. The information we learn from your research is just as pleasing as the work you do.

 

Jesse

 

Jesse, that's the great thing about MSW.  Your log was one of the ones I looked at and followed for my rudder coat.  We learn from each other.   :)   It's as Greg and others have said.. rudder coats just aren't often modeled.  I found very few overall.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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I was right! It's even better :)!

-Elijah

 

Current build(s):

Continental Gunboat Philadelphia by Model Shipways

https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/15753-continental-gunboat-philadelphia-by-elijah-model-shipways-124-scale/

 

Completed build(s):

Model Shipways Phantom

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?showtopic=12376

 

Member of:

The Nautical Research Guild

N.R.M.S.S. (Nautical Research and Model Ship Society)

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That is now 1000% better Mark, lovely job and well done with persevering with this detail. 

 

Perfect.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

mobbsie
All mistakes are deliberate ( me )


Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle

 

Completed Builds :-   Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ),  Granado Cross Section 1/48

Harwich Bawley, Restoration,  Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration,  Will Everard 1/67 Billings 

HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft KitHM Brig Badger,  HM Bomb Vessel Granado,
Thames Steam Launch Louise,  Thames Barge Edme,  Viking Dragon Boat


Next Build :-  

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After much thought, reading, Googling, staring at the ship, fiddling with paper and cardboard, I'm starting the galleries.

 

First, here's the drawings of the Licorne as built in 1755 with the same style galleries as Renommee and others of that era.  Ornate and distinctively French.

 

post-76-0-84745800-1461722100_thumb.jpgpost-76-0-84898500-1461722109_thumb.jpg

 

 

After the rebuild, the wales changed to more like Belle Poule and other frigates of that era.   There is one problem though, the galleries are NOT like anything I've able to find.  I trust the NMM drawings as the lines, etc. were taken off after she was captured.

 

The big "whoa" moment is that the galleries extend beyond the transom taffrail.  Newer ships fell under the edict of galleries, when viewed from the stern were to be "hidden" by the transom taffrail.  See drawings... these are from the Hahn plans but match the NMM plans.  There are no plan views (top down) that show the galleries shape.

 

post-76-0-00040000-1461722118_thumb.jpgpost-76-0-10614000-1461722124_thumb.jpg

 

What I ended up doing was using cardboard, paper, cellophane tape, blue tape, lots of invectives, and finally some rationalization.  Hahn built them as semi circles and I think he's pretty spot on.  The mockup was pretty much destroyed fit the bits and pieces into the scanner for converting to parts drawings. So, sorry there's no pictures.  It wasn't very pretty to look at but it filled the need.

 

Here's the first parts I've cut.  Basically the upper matches the bottom as to size but with some reshaping as to the outside for the trim strip.   If you'll look carefully, they are not a true semi-circle.   When I viewed the mockups from the side and the rear, this curve is the only one that matched the views and this didn't match the other ship plans I looked at.   Part of the reason, I believe, is that Licorne's stern is a bit narrower than the normal of the time and the sweep of the top rail has more arc than other French frigates I looked at.

 

post-76-0-12822900-1461722133_thumb.jpg

 

I'm starting to fit them now.  I'm starting with the bottom piece on one side and then make the other side a mirror image. 

 

One other note.... On the old style galleries, only the center pane of the window (or of the center window for larger ships) was glazed.  I'm in a quanadry about glazing all the panes in all the windows and all the models of frigates of that period that I've seen haven't had glazing.  Even Frolich's... just black or blue paint in the panes.   Hmm...  my decision at this moment is to glaze the center window entirely and deadlight the other two.  However, that's open to discussion.

 

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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A brave start Mark; gtood luck with these as they look a bit tricky :)

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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Hi Mark

 

I sense your frustration about not being able to find the exact drawings of the galleries. Nonetheless, what you're doing certainly seems to fit the bill. It'll look pretty darn perfect once done, for sure!

 

Cheers and all the best.

 

Patrick

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Mark,

 

It must be so

 

post-33-0-48214100-1461750056_thumb.png

 

confusing ... A French ship, caught by the English ... rebuild (partly) and only the French plans to consult, besides the references from another modeller, whom is an expert, but didn't live at the time of the changes either ... how I do not envy you ... but how courageous, and creative you are ...

 

Cheers

Carl

"Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson
Search and you might find a log ...

 

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Mark. I'm really looking forward to seeing this remarkable piece of art come alive !!

CaptainSteve
Current Build:  HM Granado Bomb Vessel (Caldercraft)

My BathTub:    Queen Anne Barge (Syren Ship Models)       Log:  Queen Anne Barge (an build log)

                        Bounty Launch (Model Shipways)                 Log:  Bounty Launch by CaptainSteve
                        Apostol Felipe (OcCre)
                        HMS Victory (Constructo)
Check It Out:   The Kit-Basher's Guide to The Galaxy

Website:          The Life & Boats of CaptainSteve

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Hi Mark

The galleries are the most difficult parts on such a ship. Good luck for this, the beginning looks good at the moment!

 

Regards

Gerhard

Problems just mean: solutions not yet found

 

Models in progress

SMS DANZIG

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12842-sms-danzig-1851-by-gerhardvienna-radio-150-scale/

USS CAIRO

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13282-uss-cairo-by-gerhardvienna-live-steam-radio/

Baby Bootlegger 1/10

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13625-baby-bootlegger-110-radio-by-gerhardvienna/

 

Swiss paddlesteamer RIGI 1848 1:50, after plans from the Verkehrshaus Zürich, rescaled to original length

Anchor tugboat BISON, 1:50, plans from VTH, scratch

Finished models

See-Ewer ELBE, Constructo kit 1:48

German fastboat after plans from german Reichskriegsmarine measure unknown (too ugly to show up!)

German traffic boat for battleships WW2, 1:50, after plans from Jürgen Eichardt, scratch

German Schnellboot TIGER P6141 VTH plans, scratch

 

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with something that ornate Mark.....I'd glaze all three.   as you were narrating earlier,  I had the thought of simply looking at her from the stern and gauging the hull lines......that would give you an idea of how much they jut out.    I see you already did that  ;)   well played orange  :) 

I yam wot I yam!

finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build

Billing T78 Norden

 

in dry dock:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch

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hi mark

nice work, I'm having similar problems and have put of the galleries for that reason, the syrius design was based on a Spanish frigate and a one off and I only have the NMM plans and as you so no plan view, as you mentioned re my stove tiles go with how you think they should look, assuming they were the toilet like English ships should give you an idea as long as someone could get in and sit down it should work

The clerk of the cheque's yacht of sheerness

Current build HMS Sirius (1797) 1:48 scratch POF from NMM plans

HMS Winchelsea by chuck 1:48

Cutter cheerful by chuck 1:48

Previous builds-

Elidir - Thames steam barge

Cutty Sark-Billings boats

Wasa - billings boats

Among others 😁

 

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Thanks for the likes and comments...   Indeed, this will be fiddly.   However, I do see the need for several jigs... I've got one done for bending the decorative trim and am working on a sanding jig.  If you look carefully, there's a slight curve to the window line and the trim pieces above and below.....  And then I need a small jig to get everything uniform.   Thank heavens for basswood and a scrap box which gives me cheap jig material.

 

I just noticed this.... the plans show 3 X 3 rows of glazing on all the windows.  The Hahn model only has two vertical rows on the forward window.   Hmmm.... what did he know or find out while building this ship? 

 

A brave start Mark; gtood luck with these as they look a bit tricky :)

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Pat, I'm not sure if this bravery or just being over-confident.  :D  :D  :D   It's going to be fiddly to say the least.

 

Mark,

 

It must be so

 

attachicon.gifconfused_roo.png

 

confusing ... A French ship, caught by the English ... rebuild (partly) and only the French plans to consult, besides the references from another modeller, whom is an expert, but didn't live at the time of the changes either ... how I do not envy you ... but how courageous, and creative you are ...

 

Cheers

 

Carl, the rebuild was by the French before she was caught...  This bit is going to either make or break me, I think.   I've asked to Admiral about what size knitting needles would be good for a starter project.  

 

Mark. I'm really looking forward to seeing this remarkable piece of art come alive !!

 

So am I, Steve... I'm wihging it here.  

 

Hi Mark

The galleries are the most difficult parts on such a ship. Good luck for this, the beginning looks good at the moment!

 

Regards

Gerhard

 

You might just be right, Gerhard.  Although the head has similar issues as far as complexity....   :huh:

 

hi mark

nice work, I'm having similar problems and have put of the galleries for that reason, the syrius design was based on a Spanish frigate and a one off and I only have the NMM plans and as you so no plan view, as you mentioned re my stove tiles go with how you think they should look, assuming they were the toilet like English ships should give you an idea as long as someone could get in and sit down it should work

 

Paul,

That's part of what I had to get a feel for.  From hull to the outside of the gallery is about 3 to 3 1/2 feet. The deck the officer/captain would stand on is actually in the drop so that has to be hollowed out some or it will block the doorway... I'm being picky...  ^_^

 

 

with something that ornate Mark.....I'd glaze all three.   as you were narrating earlier,  I had the thought of simply looking at her from the stern and gauging the hull lines......that would give you an idea of how much they jut out.    I see you already did that   ;)   well played orange   :)

 

I may end up doing that, just because, Denis.  I'll have to see how horrible it looks from the outside looking in also.  Although with the liquid glazing, everything will be blurry anyway so it just boils down to which is correct for the period.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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