Euromodel Como Kit Discussion

[NMBROOK]

Hi all I have started this thread as other related threads seem to be going of on a tangent Not only that,for future reference to readers,I thought it may be better that any discussion regarding these fine kits is all in one place.Peter has devoted a lot of his free time to creating his interpretive files which can be downloaded on Euromodels website.This charts the construction of the individual models.If you have a question or would like to add anything about this,please go to Pete's thread 

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/5541-euromodel-interpretive-files/

 

If you would like to discuss anything other than this related to Euromodels kits please feel free to post it here.

 

Kind Regards Nigel

 

 

Edited February 19, 2014 by NMBROOK

[piratepete007]

Phew .... sanity prevails. Thanks Nigel

Pete

[NMBROOK]

I can't guarantee people will start using it Pete  

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[mtaylor]

NIgel,

 

I suggest nuking the work "Como" in the title... make it more generic such as:  Euromodel Kit Discussion - all kits

[Keith_W]

You might get more replies here if you moved some posts from the other thread. 

 

I might be stirring the pot a little here by asking this question - but where does the money go with these kits?

 

I've been told that the quality of materials is very good. After reading the PDF's on Euromodel's website quite extensively, it appears that the frames are made of ply, the planks made of walnut, and the masts made of limewood. This is the same as most other kit manufacturers out there. 

 

I've also been told that the quality of fittings are excellent, but then we've seen the anchors appear to be oversized and awkwardly thick, and the lanterns and windows are made from cast metal instead of the photoetched parts we see on other kits. 

 

We have also been told that Euromodel offers you "scope to improve the model", but it looks to me as if this means that the quality of the offering is substandard. For example, the rigging of the gun carriage is really simple, and (if the build log is to be believed) they do not supply eye hooks and you have to supply your own. Caldercraft supply enough material to build a fully rigged gun carriage out of the box. Another example - the beakheads on the Wilhelm Friedrich kit are supplied as a block of wood from which you need to carve the beakhead. Some might see this as a challenge, but you could also ask if Euromodel couldn't be bothered to go through the trouble of laser cutting this for you. Yet another example - the boats on some of their kits are made from cast resin. Even Artesania Latina supply parts for a plank on frame model for a ship's boat. 

 

I suppose there is the quality of the instructions, but to me that does not justify spending close to A$2100 for Royal William when the competition offers much more detail out of the box for much less money. The Caldercraft Victory includes copper sheathing in the box (which adds substantially to the cost), is a much bigger boat than any of the Euromodels, and costs A$1400, i.e. it is 30% cheaper. 

 

I really think I am missing something here. Can someone tell me what's so different about these kits? 

[puckotred]

You might get more replies here if you moved some posts from the other thread. 

 

I might be stirring the pot a little here by asking this question - but where does the money go with these kits?

 

...

 

I really think I am missing something here. Can someone tell me what's so different about these kits? 

 I feel the same. To me all those pretty words translates to: "Less than minimum material to almost finish a (very) basic model."

I almost bought the Il Pinco Genovese but discovered that the pictures of the finished model had little to do with what you could build from what they supplied in the box. The beautiful stern decoration was actually a thin printed ply. 

[NMBROOK]

NIgel,

 

I suggest nuking the work "Como" in the title... make it more generic such as:  Euromodel Kit Discussion - all kits

Hi Mark

There is a reason for this,Euromodels Como is the official name,there is a company in the UK specialising in period ships called Euromodels

I was airing on the side of caution

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[piratepete007]

Amfibius - you have raised a number of points in your recent posting and as always, great for discussions. I guess we can pick out little points in kits from all manufacturers. I would be saddened if this forum turned into a kit 'bashing' rather than the sharing of ideas and concerns. The notes are useful and I know you have been reading them but you have to have the kit in your hands to appreciate it. I will pass on the concerns that I read to Euromodel - but I am not on their payroll.

 

The beakhead at the bow supporting the head rails is laser cut so not sure what was intended there. Were you referring to the quarter galleries at the stern ? If so, as you build the ship, you would find that laser cutting would be of little use in a 3D carving.

 

Regarding the price factor, I spoke to Euromodel a few minutes ago and this is an unfortunate aspect of market pricing out of the hands of Euromodel. The prices are highly inflated making other brands more attractive but there is an attractive option - purchase direct from them from their on-line shop. I did this and it was a seamless exercise. They also tell me that they will have a phenomenal sale in mid-March.

 

Brian C - what was supplied for the deck planking of the Royal William was good quality walnut but I chose to use Tanganyika which is a much lighter timber ... and so we go on.

 

Puckotred - I guess this is where the MSW is valuable because concerns by individuals can grow out of all proportion. Have a look at the stern of the Euromodel Pinco Genovese. The kit does include metal decorations.

 

Pete

 

 

[mtaylor]

Hi Mark

There is a reason for this,Euromodels Como is the official name,there is a company in the UK specialising in period ships called Euromodels

I was airing on the side of caution

 

Kind Regards Nigel

 

No problem, Nigel.  I just feared that some of the members would think that Como was the name of a ship.

[mtaylor]

Pete,

 

It's not just MSW.  I've seen it on other forums also...  ME takes their share of "bashing" as does AL, Occre, Caldercraft, etc.  I can't think of any who don't.  Reasons vary and usually it's either for very good reasons or preferences of the builder coming out.  Bad castings, bad wood, not enough materials, fictitious histories, sparse to just plain wrong instructions are just a few of the things that irk modelers. 

 

I realize you're not an employee but don't take it personally.  

[NMBROOK]

I understand where you are coming from Mark,Como is actually the Italian town where they are based.It used to be even more confusing many years ago when Euromodels(uk) stocked Euromodels(IT).The other thing is if anyone tries googling just Euromodels,the company in Twickenham? England will come up.

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[NMBROOK]

Thank you Brian  At least everything is all together,the other thread was heading way off topic,so just followed Pete's suggestion. One thing is I know it has been mention regarding the age of the design of the R William kit,I would much rather that than the so called improvements from Panart and Sergal with laser cut gratings and imitation deck planking.For me if that is the future,I will just scratchbuild.

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[Jean-Pierre]

As said before, the best points for Euromdel are, I think:

- their excellent plans

- their unusual subjects

- their far better than average castings

 

Now I understand that to make these kits really enjoyable subjects, you had better have some experience, and be willing to make the eventual changes that you feel necessary.  Master plastic modellers, for instance, almost never build straight from the bos, and I suppose wooden ship modellers do the same: that is the fun of modelling.  If you want to make a beautiful model straight from the bos, then go Caldercraft or Victory models. But if you want to extend your skills, and BUILD SOMETHING DIFFERENT, then Eurommodel can be your choice.

 

Now items like the anchors are in my modest opinion hard to modify, being metal items.  I suppose that most modellers would rather buy new items than trying to improve on the kit items: it is a detail, but at that price level, and compared to the castings....

[puckotred]

 

 

Puckotred - I guess this is where the MSW is valuable because concerns by individuals can grow out of all proportion. Have a look at the stern of the Euromodel Pinco Genovese. The kit does include metal decorations.

 

Pete

 

Well, this is what's in the box:

 

 

 

This and a little line in the instructions put me off:

 

The decks – main 22, quarter deck 25, the upper 

quarter deck 29, the poop deck 38 and parts 32, 33, 34, 

37 are built from 2mm. plywood; this can be ruled/ 

marked with a bradawl to imitate planking...

 

No strips for deck planking? 

[Keith_W]

Pete and others, it is far from my intention to bash Euromodel. Like I said before, I am thinking about building a Euromodel kit next. Thanks to your excellent build logs and what I can see on MSW, I can gain some insight into what's in the kit and what isn't.

 

I don't buy into the scratch building argument. If one were prepared to invest a lot of time and expense buying third party parts, you could raise a kit from Artesania to the level of a Caldercraft. In fact, that is precisely what Canoe21 is doing with his AL Victory.

 

For me, an expensive kit should mean that it comes with more in the box. I was looking at the Friedrich Wilhelm and thinking that I would have to buy a third party boat, anchors, gun carriages, eye hooks, lanterns, and wood. And maybe learn to carve because it appears as if the horseman is printed on plywood, instead of a cast part. Learning of this fills me with disappointment, because this is not what I would expect in a premium priced kit. I can honestly tell you that I was looking forward to buying a Friedrich Wilhelm until I learnt this. I am still keeping an open mind though - which is why I am asking if I am missing something. 

 

If the Royal William comes with 5kg of metal decorations, and pre-tapered masts - then I can see where the money has gone and I would be prepared to buy that kit. I don't mind the expense, as long as I know that I am getting more if I pay more. 

[puckotred]

that kit is one of their budget priced models. 

 

That explains a lot. (But I still believe it's way overpriced*)

 

* Is this an English word?

 

[NMBROOK]

Pete and others, it is far from my intention to bash Euromodel. Like I said before, I am thinking about building a Euromodel kit next. Thanks to your excellent build logs and what I can see on MSW, I can gain some insight into what's in the kit and what isn't.

 

I don't buy into the scratch building argument. If one were prepared to invest a lot of time and expense buying third party parts, you could raise a kit from Artesania to the level of a Caldercraft. In fact, that is precisely what Canoe21 is doing with his AL Victory.

 

For me, an expensive kit should mean that it comes with more in the box. I was looking at the Friedrich Wilhelm and thinking that I would have to buy a third party boat, anchors, gun carriages, eye hooks, lanterns, and wood. And maybe learn to carve because it appears as if the horseman is printed on plywood, instead of a cast part. Learning of this fills me with disappointment, because this is not what I would expect in a premium priced kit. I can honestly tell you that I was looking forward to buying a Friedrich Wilhelm until I learnt this. I am still keeping an open mind though - which is why I am asking if I am missing something. 

 

If the Royal William comes with 5kg of metal decorations, and pre-tapered masts - then I can see where the money has gone and I would be prepared to buy that kit. I don't mind the expense, as long as I know that I am getting more if I pay more. 

Hi Keith,I think the issue's being raised are all valid one's.I think that if you want to build Friedrich Wilhelm,but have identified that out of personal choice,that you would replace many items,probably the most cost effective route would be to just buy the plans.The time spent cutting the bulkheads out yourself,for which full patterns are provided,would save you a heap of cash.This route has yet been unmentioned and it is the route I will go with Royal William.I do have the plans and although a little more expensive than Sergals comparable examples,they are well worth the money.You can still use Pete's interpretive files as a reference.To be honest,although a scratchbuild,I don't think the additional work would be much greater than buying the kit and you would have for all intensive purposes,a practicum to follow.I think if you followed this route,in all likelyhood,you would finish up with a model exactly how you want it for an outlay equal to,if not less than buying the kit.

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[piratepete007]

I wish I was as good with words as you are Brian. That is what I have been trying to say all along.

Pete

[demonborger]

The variety is so so nice, the more the better. 

[aferox]

I agree with Brian.

 

In my case, I'm primarily interested in the ship. I'll add what I need to the kit. If I want to build a kit model of Mordaunt or Falmouth or Royal William, then I know where I'll be getting it. If I want to build the Victory, then I can choose the best kit from the many offerings.

 

Tim

[rtropp]

I was lucky enough to acquire both the Ajax and the Falmouth.

I have a while before starting the next build as I am working on the Syren which is where I am learning the hobby.

 

So I have two questions.

Which model would you build first?

If you could only build one of them, which would you choose?

 

 

Richard

[piratepete007]

Richard, both kits extend your skills and both are begging for your own variations.  Personally, out of the two, if I had to choose, then I would go for the Falmouth due to a number of factors. For example, the stern construction requires some interesting thinking (which I have written about) and the fact that it has a 'Sun Deck' for overhead protection whilst working in the tropics. Those two points make it a great project. It is distinctly different. But there again, that applies to all the Euromodel ships .....

Pete

[piratepete007]

Crackers - have you taken some photos of the finished sails on your Falmouth build ? Would love to see them finished and in place.

[Johncclark]

At present I am in the final stages of completing Ajax. This is my first plank on frame and it has been a long project. Many modifications and upgrades have been made to simulate my view of HMS Surprise including rounding the forecastle area and adding chaser ports. The mizzen has been made taller to accommodate a second square sail. Caldercraft parts include ships wheels (double wheel assembly) , new anchors, ships boats, carronades, ships stove, and finer rigging thread. Using an article from Model Boats, I was able to get a good start but have supplemented all of this with lots of research. The directions in Italian are hard to work with but the detail in the plans is really pretty good. Generally the kit is a starting point that requires you to immerse yourself in the fine points of ship building. I am also rigging sails. Not a museum quality product but it already has a spot on our living room mantel. Hours of fun!

[rtropp]

Hi Cabrillo,

do you have a build log or any pictures?

 

Richard

[Johncclark]

I will post some photos in October. At present we are traveling. Pretty surprised to hear about your interest ! I will also need to figure out how to upload photos to this site. Patience please. just added a photo from June. At that point I had coppered the bottom and was in the process of correcting a lot of earlier errors! Attaching a photo is not simple!

Edited September 13, 2014 by Cabrillo

[Johncclark]

Here is a bow on view of Surprise aka Ajax. Figure head is a work in progress. Copper hull plates are Caldercraft , about 850 of them. Not a hard job, took about a week.

[Johncclark]

Surprise had a rounded forecastle and chase ports. Modified the kit.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Cabrillo

[Johncclark]

Mizzen has been extended to add a Top Gallant

[Johncclark]

Wheel from Caldercraft along with carronades.