Mike Y

18th Century Longboat by Mike Y - Model Shipways - 1:48

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It is second build, first one was a similar model - English Pinnace

This time I will make it slower, no rush. And will try to avoid all mistakes done on Pinnace :)

 

I will use kit details for frames and keel, and boxwood for everything else.

No paint, no stain, only natural wood colour. No friesers, and no paintings on a transom also. Instead, it would be planked and treenailed.

Sorry for skipping the decorations, I just prefer the simple design.

 

For a start - traditional photos of every longboat builder - parts sanded from laser char, keel and falsekeel, simple building jig to hold it straight.

 

post-5430-0-58601900-1400540799_thumb.jpg

 

post-5430-0-89798000-1400540815_thumb.jpg

 

post-5430-0-89886600-1400540828_thumb.jpg

 

First pinnace mistake avoided - bevel on a false keel is smaller, different angle, to gently handle a plank on an angle specified by frames. Sounds obvious, but on a pinnace I made a bevel with a wrong angle, and there was a small gap between garboard plank and keel.

 

First impression - it is sooooooo small! Very nice scale, it is big enough to make it with a good precision (I hope), but fits into a palm. Should be very cute when done :)

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Mike, I am very interested since I am working on this right now, and having some planking issues.  (Probably overthinking it.)

 

Please can you give lots and lots of details and pictures when planking?

 

I learn best by seeing it done as opposed to reading it.

 

I have put on the first two sheer planks and the gar plank.  But when I look at the pictures in the instruction book and compare what the instructions say to the build something doesn't make sense.  I don't have a camera yet so I can't show you what I mean, but I can follow your pictures and see how

 

Biggest issue is the plank after the gar plank.  

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I was looking at that first link you posted and I think I see what I've been doing wrong.

 

1st my garboard plank has too abrupt a curve to it.  Gonna have to remake those.  No big deal.   :rolleyes:

 

2nd I noticed that Bob dropped a tick mark on the bulkhead forward of where the garboard plank begins which solves the other problem I was having.

 

Also, I noticed that after 3 or 4 planks up the downward curve of the planks disappears which solves the last problem I was envisioning.  

 

Still want to see lots of pics tho!   :P

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Actually never understood the idea of mounting the gardboard plank first. It is quite difficult to get its shape right. I planked pinnace from top to the bottom, and the gardboard was shaped only when I had just 3-4 plank layers left. Then you clearly see remaining width, have enough planks to make fine corrections, and can easilly shape the gardboard as needed.

Installing gardboard plank right on the start will require a really good calculations and intuition..

But, again, disclaimer - I'm not a planking expert.. Sorry..

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Whew, that was quite a rush to get over here from your Pinnace log Mike! Okay, made it in time for a front row seat. Mark, be a good fellow and pass me a coldie and some popcorn please.

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Grant you beat me! You must have some serious power under the hood. As soon as I heard of the opening of this log I headed straight for here! :P

 

So Mike you decided to use the keel & stem from the kit. One suggestion - As noted in some of the other logs the Stem is very fragile and likely to break at the head. Since the grain runs the wrong way. Also did you paint the Bass parts with WOP as suggested by Chuck? It sure helps with making things stronger. I can only imagine that once we get to the point of removing the bulkheads this will be a benefit.

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Floyd, no, I didn't applied poly. I will apply it later when things are done. No feeling that it's fragile. Of course, you should handle it with care.. Plus the layer of poly is sooo thin and not so strong, that it will not protect stem from breaking if I, say, hit it with the hand.

But also there is no load on a stem. While planking, I clamp the hull using temporary piece of wood glued to frames on top, and frames are connected with each other:

post-5430-0-71058100-1400596584_thumb.jpg

I don't have exact photo, but imagine a piece of scrap wood glued right on a center. 

 

It's quite a strong construction, hull is flipped upside down and clamped in a table vice, and then only way to break stem is to hit it accidentally

post-5430-0-63218300-1400596641_thumb.jpg

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I placed the first 2 planks from the shear line down first according to the instructions. I then drew tick marks down to the keel as described in Chucks instructions. When drawing the tick marks be sure to insert the card stock into the bevel of the false keel. The tick marks at the keel will show you the shape of the garboard plank, I think. At least it did for me.

 

Stuntflyer, thanks for coming! Your build log is one of my references! Understood the idea, will try.

However, question still applies. What is the benefit of mounting the gardboard plank early on? I installed it quite late on Pinnace, and failed to find any problem caused by it. Or I'm probably just missing something, because lots of experienced builders mount it as early as possible, so it should make some sense. Would appreciate your thoughts!

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Mike, I did it early on because Chuck said so in his instructions and I wasn't about to question the master. Perhaps he will give us some insight here. I will say that placing the garboard early on does a lot to strengthen the overall structure. Remember also that you will have to reduce the number of tick marks forward of the garboard plank by 1 or 2 depending on which bulkhead.

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If you line out the hull with tick marks for the planking,  you can determine the width of each strake at each bulkhead.  What I like to do but couldnt in the kit instructions,  (pre milled strips and all) would be to place the first sheer strake into position.  Then line off the hull from the bottom of the shear strake to the keel NOT INCLUDING THE GARBOARD.  After you line off the hull it will reveal the shape of the garboard....this can be cut and positioned early so that you will have a consistent remaining space to plank.  Planking the garboard early allows you the opportunity to see the negative unplanked space remaining and see how that space runs bow to stern.   If you see that negative space getting too wide or too narrow in places...it probably means your garboard is shaped incorrectly.  By lining off the hull you can also avoid any guesswork.

 

See Bob's build log.   I would do it exactly the same way...in fact this is exactly how I planked the hull except I do add the shear strake first.  It strengthens the hull and allows me to create the shear curve I want before lining off the rest of the hull.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1465-18th-century-longboat-by-bobf-ms-148-tri-club/page-2

 

Chuck

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Thanks Chuck! Now I understand. Will do a proper marking this time :)

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Yeah, me too!

 

Didn't understand the concept of lining off and also the idea of dropping tick marks.  After putting on the first 2 sheer planks, I was looking at the rest and wondering how to get 10 planks to fill the first really small bulkhead without tapering them to a point.

 

Also, looking at the hull with only the 2 sheer planks and the garplank, I was envisioning ending up with a small triangular section un-planked, considering that the upper blanks "bend" upward, and the 2nd plank up from the garboard must "bend" downward.

 

I'm gonna take the garboard planks off and line the bulkheads, maybe that'll show me some sense.

 

And I did look at Bob's build, that's what helped me see what I was doing wrong.

 

Thank you Chuck and Bob.

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Mike - The grain on the Stem does not run up & down as it should. So there is a very real chance that the top (or head) of the stem will break off. this is mentioned in several other logs. I took my que from Chuck S. in San Diego. Also the WOP does strength the wood. this is the reason I painted a couple of coats on both the stem and bulkheads.

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Floyd, maybe we had kits from different production batches, in my kit the stem have a proper grain direction, and it's not fragile at all. But thanks for a heads up!

 

Actually decided to make stem and keel out of boxwood. The reason is different - stem is a bit grey, and it's not something you can sand away. It's just how basswood looks like when it's cross grain:

post-5430-0-21161000-1400657551_thumb.jpg

 

It's quite visible on a contrast with keel, which have another grain direction. Looks dirty.

So making it out of boxwood.

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Ok, boxwood stem and keel looks really better, I actually did not expected how better!

 

post-5430-0-10449000-1400706778_thumb.jpg

 

Sanded it with 400 => 600 => 1200 => 2000 grits. After 2000 grit castello starts to change the color to a deeper yellow, and starts to have a shine. Really interesting transformation! Need to experiment a lot when it would be a time to apply some protective finish:

post-5430-0-30433000-1400706748_thumb.jpg

 

Used another kind of scarf joint for keel. I know it is not the joint that should be really used on a keel, but it just looks nicer, and just wanted to practice that tricky joint on such scale. Looks ok, or maybe I should have made it longer? Right now joint is done on an angle around 60deg, but maybe something closer to 70-75 would be better (if joint length is three times joint width).

What is the golden rule of thumb for such joints?

 

Close-up:

post-5430-0-30336200-1400706952_thumb.jpg

 

Next step is frame fitting. Frames are gently sanded, and ready to go! :)

post-5430-0-24186800-1400707117_thumb.jpg

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Mike I am impressed with your scarf joint. Can you share some more details about how you made it?

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I used this photo from somebody's build log (sorry, forgot which one):

post-5430-0-77416800-1400739183_thumb.jpg

 

When doing that scarf, the trick to avoid misalignment is to use a constant and predefined cut depth, because it will affect not only the "cutoff" parts, but the edges of the planks.

And keep in mind that it's a fully mirrored joint, so both sides could be cut clamped together.

 

Here is the sketch, notice that all red lines are equal (representing the cut depts).

post-5430-0-88257400-1400740269.png

 

 

But maybe there is some easy trick to cut that scarf quick, clean and precise. I did just a few scarfs, and hope that some experienced builder can share a trick to make such scarfs fast and easy :)

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Mike, looking at your close-up shot of the keel and false keel it appears the bevel is somewhat rounded. FWIW, I found that beveling the false keel straight and thinning it to less than 1/32" helped a lot in allowing the planks to get into position without slipping out. Although more difficult to do, you can still bevel it more after the keel and false keel are glued together. Also, the bevel will not show up on the finished models interior. Mike

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Stuntflyer, you are right. Thanks for noticing that! Really appreciate it. It got rounded when I unglued keel from false keel and was sanding away remainings of the glue.

I made a very big bevel on Pinnace and it was a mistake - caused a tiny gap between plank and keel. So on Longboat I opted for a small bevel. If it's too small - easy to fix with a sharp hobby knife :)

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Mike,

Stupid question, where in Sweden are you located?

That scarf looks very nice. Enjoying following your build log.

 

Tack så mycket!

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Hej Per! I'm in Stockholm. If you too - I would be happy to invite you for a grill & beer :) I'm not a native swede though, moved here just 2 years ago. But pretty much enjoy people and unspoken rules here :)

P.S.: Do you know some shipmodelling clubs in Sweden? Apart from a Boat Builders on Skeppsholmen, who build 1:1 models.

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Mike,

I guess I have to ask for a rain check regarding grill/beer. I will let you know when I am back in Sweden.

Grew up in Åkersberga (NorthEast) if you are familiar with the surroundings. You take the train (Roslagsbanan) from Östra Station. About 40 minutes ride.

I would suggest you to make a contact National Museum of Maritime (sjöhistoriska museet), as they have annual modelship builders day in the summer. inviting clubs, they should have somewhat of an eye of such. Another place to visit is Eskader (hobbystore). The owner knows about clubs as well.

But hold to your wallet as a visit at Eskader might be expensive. :P  Knowing by experience.

As for the longboat, I beveled the false keel the way Mike-Stuntflyer described. It's thin, it's delicate but I think it was worthwhile.

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Thanks for the tips!

Speaking of, have you ever been in maritime museum in Karskrona? Is it worth visiting to see lots of good models? Or their collection is as small as in Sjöhistoriska?

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Mike,

As I were stationed in Karlskrona for the initial time of my military service we had free entrance to the museum, this was back in mid 80s and I don't know how much that has changed. But if you are making a trip it's definitely worth a visit. 

Sending you the link to their website.

http://www.marinmuseum.se/

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Used following checklist when mounting the frames. It all sounds very obvious, but would be good to repeat again. Bitter lesson from Pinnace build...

 

* connection between frame and false keel should not be too loose

* but it should not be very tight - tight connection will push away the glue and skew frame position. Light adjustments should be possible

* all angles - must be perfect 90/180 degrees. Do not trust your eye, it lies when it comes to angles or parallelism. Use jigs and measurement tools.

* frame must be inserted fully. Which is also easy to fail if frame connection is tight.

* repeat all measurements multiple times.

* after each correction - check all angles again. And again.

* be pedantic! :)

* let the glue set before gluing next frame, it is easy to skew alignment by accidentally touching freshly installed frame.

* false keel should sit tight in the jig, use strips of wood or paper to achieve that. No wobbling allowed

 

If I see that some frame is not perfectly fit - then drop of water weakens the glue, and I reinstall the frame. It's the case where saying "it is ok, nobody will see it" is not acceptable. Imperfect eye, measurement tools and light wood warping when glue sets will add a deviation, don't worry about it ;)

 

My jig was again made of lego - parts are perfectly square, make a strong construction, but easy to rebuild if needed (for example, for stem frames):

post-5430-0-11146100-1401017618_thumb.jpg

 

post-5430-0-39840200-1401017714_thumb.jpg

 

Hope to glue all frames during next week, the weather is toooo good to be inside on a weekends :)

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Nice work Mike. Love the use of Lego for making jigs! :)

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