18th Century Longboat by Mike Y - Model Shipways - 1:48

[Mike Y]

Thanks everybody for comments! I now found where the problem is. Exactly as Grant said, number of ticks should change for smaller bulkheads. Then you will have taper and less edge bending.

On Pinnace I had no reference marks, and just planked ad hoc. As a result, there was just a tiny edge bend, planks were tapered, and gardboard plank was straight, no curve at all:

 

Decided to continue with wrong reference lines and see how it looks. Should be a significant bend, and very small taper.

Then will compare results, and redo the planking if it will look bad

Luckily Jeff supplies double amount of wood for planking, so there is a room for experiment

[fnkershner]

Mike - I know I am jumping back a bit. But can go spend a bit more detail on the shaping of your Boxwood Stem. it looks almost perfect. If you are falloing my log you will see that I broke my boxwood stem and I broke my false keel. So while I am waiting for my replacement keel I am taking my time to cut a new stem. this time I am going to try for a better scarf joint.

[Mike Y]

Floyd, sorry, but I have no tricks there - just traced the shape of the stem to a piece of boxwood, using same grain direction. Then used table saw and dremel to shape it, then sand-sand-sand - and you have a stem! Same for keel

The only thing is that you need to use sanding block to have a straight edge on a consistent 90 degrees.

"Decoration" on top of the stem was done with a round file, with stem clamped in a table vice. 

So no tricks to share..

 

What is the problem with the stem and keel? Maybe I can help if you show the photos?

Edited June 2, 2014 by Mike Y

[fnkershner]

Well for the first false keel I broke off the front end with a little too vigorous sanding. I could have fixed it with some careful gluing but I decided to use the guarantee and get another one. In the 2nd case I accidentally closed the lid on the box for my kit with the keel and bulkhead assembly inside. It broke in 3 places. Its a great opportunity to refine my skills.

[tlevine]

Are you planning on edge-bending the planks or spiling them?  If you are using basswood, edge bending will work.  Castillo is much more difficult to edge-bend, even with these thin planks.  If you are planning in spiling them you will need to plan on wider planks so that they can be fit in place.

[Mike Y]

Toni, thanks for an advice!

 

I count mostly on edge-bending, just a bit of spiling to have a good fit in the end of the plank.

Using Castello.

So far had no problems with it, soaking in boiling water for 15sec, then clamping under a glass:

 

Then fitting to the hull and clamping until it's dry:

 

Bends well, pretty elastic, no cracks. Just a pleasure to work with it!

 

The main problem is actually on a stern, there is an extreme bend due to the angle of rear bulkheads:

It's different from Pinnace, bulkheads there have a smooth curve in the bottom, even the rear bulkheads. Thinking on adding some fillers..

 

 

[fnkershner]

Mike - This time are you using Boxwood?

[Mike Y]

Yes, as I wrote in the first post - I use castello boxwood from Hobbymill, for all parts apart from false keel and frames.

[Mike Y]

About edge bending. Conventional method (clamping under glass) do not work very well for me, because planks remain pretty wet even after a day of being clamped. Which is reasonable, moisture have no way to escape if it's under glass. And when you lift the glass, planks kicks back and loose half of the bend.

Probably this is the point where hair dryer would be useful, but I don't have one. I only have a heat gun, which I use to start the grill. Used it once, it accidentally melted my clamps

 

So instead I'm doing edge bending by simply clamping soaked plank to the previous plank and leaving it overnight:

 

Works pretty well with boxwood. Jeff mills them with a good tolerance, as a result - planks are thicker then the kit ones. So it bends evenly, without warping up or down. That will not work really well with basswood (tried it), or with big bends probably.. But there is no kickback, next evening it's fully ready for final installation. And if you need to have a very severe bend - that something is not right anyway.

 

I guess that next update will take a few weeks, so far it's just a iterative process, where I install one-two pair of planks per week... Happy summer!

[fnkershner]

Mike - I am sorry for dragging you back to where I am in this build. but it looks like you added the transom before you added your "false deck". Is this correct? Also since you are doing this one in Boxwood did you replace the transom with Boxwood? I am right now adding the false deck on my build.

[Mike Y]

Yes, I added transom before the false deck, why not Used same jig to level transom, as I used for frames.

Transom is basswood, because I'm going to plank the external surface of the transom, with boxwood planks. 

[fnkershner]

Mike - your pictures tells me you are not retired. How do you find the time to move so quickly on your Long boat? I have a job and family.  Back on page 3 of your build you show a picture of your fairing from above. Do you have a similar picture but showing the stern?

[Mike Y]

Heh, I have an great wife who also have a hobby (knitting), and mostly I do modelling during 1-2 hours when kid is already sleeping, and I'm not

And I thought it's moving very slow!

 

No picture of fairing from the stern, unfortunately. All pictures are in this log... Stern shape is smoother then in a bow, so just a light fairing required.

Main problem I faced was around 2-3-4 planks from the keel, right on a stern. If I build a longboat again - will definitely add some fillers to smoothen the transition from false keel to rear frames. They are pretty smooth in Pinnace, but on Longboat you will either have a gap between frame and plank, or planks will meet on some extreme angle

So before you plank it, try to dry fit a few planks there. Maybe you will want to add some fillers

[Mike Y]

Here is a shameful workaround for a tricky area, where false keel meets with rear frames:

 

And also not sure why I have that stealer plank there... At some point I forgot about shaping planks to reference lines at the stern, and decided that it is a good idea to practice a proper stealer plank

 

Current state of the hull, around half of planking is completed:

 

Discovered that scraping the boxwood hull is much better then sanding it. The more I plank with boxwood, the more I like it!

Edited June 22, 2014 by Mike Y

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

That looks good Mike,

 

I take it the boxwood wouldn't twist the 45 degrees necessary?

[fnkershner]

Mike - As I said before, it is hard to keep up with you. I feel I am always dragging you back to ask questions. You mention that you edge bent your planks. did you do this before or after you curved them around a bottle cap or similar device. And how did you keep you edge bend when you resoaked and bent the curve? 

 

I am ready to install the first plank on the wale. I need to have significant curve for the bow and some edge bend too. Trying to figure this part out.

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

 And how did you keep you edge bend when you resoaked and bent the curve? 

I had the same question.

 

The way I solved it (at Mike's suggestion) was to soak the plank, and do both the curves at one time by clamping it to the hull itself.

[Mike Y]

Floyd, no worries! I am happy to help, if I can, so questions are welcome!

Both bents are done at the same time - soaking plank, curving it with fingers a bit (to make it softer), and then clamping to the hull. So just one soaking, snd leaving it until the next day clamped, to dry and keep the shape.

When unclamped, it bounces back just a bit, and you can glue it without any problems.

First I glue the stem part lf the plank - where it is inserted into false keel / stem, and few top frames.

Then I glue next part of the curve, 2-3 next frames.

Remaining part is close to be straight, and the last gluing is near transom. So around 3-4 gluing stages, with 10-15 min between them.

Since I also edge glue planks, it is hard to glue whole plank at once - need to make sure it is properly pressed to all frames and previous plank, to avoid gaps.

Please let me know if you want some detailed pictures of some stage, I can make them without any problem.

 

Pops, boxwood does twists easily, it is very elastic! Surprisingly Bending boxwood is as easy as bending basswood. The important thing is that it's still hard, so you can't just smash one plank into another and let it be glued - need to shape edge of the plank to tightly fit into edge of the previous plank.

I failed to join edges of 2nd and 3rd plank without gaps, so decided to let 3rd plank run on a smooth line, and added a filler plank between them.

Probably a proper solution would be adding a filler wood pieces to the bottom side of rear frames, to smoothen a joint between false keel and a frame.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Mike Y

[fnkershner]

Mike - It would be great if you had a picture of your first 2 planks installed or clamped. I am using the binder clamps (My favorite design). But have a bit of issue with the clamps holding the plank down. I am not getting enough of a side bend.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Floyd Kershner

[Mike Y]

Floyd, unfortunately I do not have lots of pictures, all of them are in that log, but there are some on page 4 and 5 of this log.

I clamp rear ends of first planks together, with a strong plastic clamp (see page 4), that helps to keep the bend. When plank is drying, it keeps that bend perfectly.

Also take a look on a grain direction, plank is twisted easier in one direction than another.

 

At the bow, I fix the end of the plank with another clamp, that is attached to the stem and pressing plank to the false keel:

Edited June 23, 2014 by Mike Y

[fnkershner]

This picture does tell me very useful info. The usual plan is to plank the wale first so that you get a full width plank in just the right spot. but you planked completely from the keel. Hmm something to think about.

[Mike Y]

Typical argument for planking wale first is to make the hull stronger and avoid wobbling of the frames. But I have a "false deck" for that.

If you follow the reference marks - you will end up with a proper shape of wale plank even if planked from the keel.

 

The benefit of planking from the keel is that you don't have a tricky "last plank" somewhere in the middle it requires lots of time to shape, and if not done carefully - there would be a gap around this plank.

 

I planked Pinnace as suggested im the manual (starting from wales, meeting in the middle), and can't find any benefits of that, if frames are already fixed together with a false deck.

 

However, usual disclaimer - all methods will work

[fnkershner]

I know the problem you are describing. I have exactly that issue with another of my builds. That last plank can be a bear. Very strange shape and very important to get right. Ok I will give your approach a try. Thanks!

[Mike Y]

To illustrate the point about smoothing the transition from rear frames to false keel.

Here is how it's done on Pinnace, frame bottoms are forming a smooth curve:

 

And here is the Longboat. Hmmmm...

 

How am I supposed to twist planks that way without leaving a gap between plank and frame? Probably the wisest thing would be to make a filler, which will transform frame shape into smooth shape as on Pinnace. But it's too late on that phase of the build.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Mike Y

[jburchfield1@wowway.com]

Maybe it's done in the fairing process?

 

Mike, you know I'm totally new but I think that's where I screwed up on mine.

[Stuntflyer]

Mike,

 

Page 4 of Chucks manual explains how to bend planks 90 degrees so they fit against the false keel. There are 3 after the garboard plank that need this type of bending. He also explains about beveling the edges where necessary to get a tight fit between the planks. I don't know if your using boxwood makes this impossible to do. With basswood it's quite easy. If it would be helpful for you to see photos of the process, I would be happy to post a few. Mike

Edited June 23, 2014 by Stuntflyer

[Mike Y]

Stuntlyfer, bending to 90deg is not a problem, but even if you bend it - there would be a small gap between plank and frame. Anyway, I just think it would be much better if that joint would be smooth, hull shape would be better.

Moving forward!

[Stuntflyer]

Mike, I know what you are saying but I don't see where the problem is. The gap between planks and the false keel is normal and won't have a negative effect on the final shape of the hull. By the "joint would be smooth" I'm guessing that you mean like on the Pinnace where the bulkheads flow into the keel. Again, I don't see where the problem is. Only 3 planks after the garboard are needed to get to all the bulkheads. Those 3 planks can easily be sanded into a smooth contour.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Stuntflyer

[Mike Y]

Mike, you are right, probably I'm just overcomplicating it Anyway, I have a wale planks coming soon, and I will do them in a bit weird way instead of gluing the friezes!

[Mike Y]

Got a new toy today! Would be used for the next project

Frankly, I thought this micro band saw is smaller. It is a 8kg thing that occupies half of the table! But the quality is really good, so far I'm pretty happy. Let's see how it will manage a sawdust generation on a large scale.

 

Edited June 27, 2014 by Mike Y