HMS Victory by peterwwebster - Caldercraft - 1/72

[peterwwebster]

Day one of the build at last. Those frames are a tight fit.

 

[Glenn-UK]

Glad to see other HMS Victory build has started, good luck and enjoy the project and look forward to seeing some picture of your progress.

 

Will be glad to offer help and advise along the way should you need it, as will other MSW members.

[PrimoDude]

Congrats and welcome to the HMS Victory Club.. I am about 1 month into the slow but sure build.. Enjoy, and there are

several great builders here. Just a minor league starter myself.

Woodchipper

[peterwwebster]

Ok Guys I now have two thoughts.

 

Re building Victory. Read, read & read again. I managed to fit the dummy barrel strips before fitting the deck because I didnt read the instructions properly.  I managed to get the top strip out so no major problem.

 

Even when reading the instructions there are doubts. Instructions say fit the stem & keelson but what about the rest of the keel. I used the search command on the PDF version of the instructions and there they are on page 9.

 

I Started the canon last night whist waiting for the glue to set on the hull, My what a lot of bits.

 

Second issue, what am I doing wrong? Despite reading the help section I am not sure if I have set up a build log properly. I want to add some pics of day one. Have I done it right ?

Help from the experts please

[Kevin]

Welcome to MSW and another Victory build log, plenty of help around here enjoy the build

[Kevin]

you may have to resize the phots smaller - i take mine down to 1024x768 through Microsoft office picture manager

Edited July 2, 2014 by Kevin

[Donny]

Enjoy your build. Don't rush but savour the experience.

[clearway]

welcome to the wonderfull world of hms victory, best advise i can give is read through the instructions 20 times then look at the model then read the instructions some more!

Keith

[peterwwebster]

Thanks for the all advice, which I know is dead right given the errors I have made so far.

 

Anyway I have managed to get diverted into gratings and canon building and got carried away with the long canon. I am amazed at the intracy of the canons. It takes a while to find the best technique and after a few tries I found that assembly of the carriage is easier if the two side frames are put onto the 1mm brass wire bed bolt which holds things in place whist the axles are fitted. I found it dificult to fit the trunnion brackets particularly in forming them over the trunnion.

 

I am very pleased wiith the results so far although I am rather daunted with the fitting of the eyelets not to mention rigging them.

 

My wife has lost our big table (but we dont use it anyway)

[peterwwebster]

Virtually finished the first planking, 5 weeks work but I am happy with the results particularly as it gets covered with the second planking and paint. Finished 30 cannon and made the tops so progressis being made.  Managed to damage the top gunport pattern when the hull was upside down by snapping the thin strip which runs over the gun port but a repair will be possible later. I keep telling myself to keep the table clear but I dont do it so only myself to blame.  

Thanks for the help given to date.

Just started making the foremast lower section which was fun.

[peterwwebster]

Hi 

Now about 8 weeks in and I have done the first part of the second planking.

 

I decided as the planking was to be covered by the copper tiles and paint I would use Pva glue rather than the superglue and that I would need to fill the odd gap. I used Ronseal wood filler which I happened to have and I think that was a good idea as it seems better than the polyfiler type (Less dust and harder) but time will tell.

 

I started painting the gun strips as instructions. What a shame I didn't do this before the gun port strips were fitted rather than have to paint through the gun ports.

 

 Anyway onwards and upwards to the stars and beyond  !!!

[peterwwebster]

On the subject of gun port linings. I am just about to line the gun ports on the upper gun deck.

 

I have seen much discussion on this web site and I have John McKay's, Anatomy of the Ship on Victory.  Looking at this book it seems the linings on this upper deck, ports 3 to 10 have linings visible on the outside so they project forward of the first planking and the second planking runs into the side of the lining. Page 10 of the instruction manual seems to say the second planking goes over the outer edge of the linings. In this case the linings are hidden.

 

McKay shows a similar detail on the ports with lids where one can see the out edge of the linings around the ports, with the planking again running into the side of the linings. The lids in McKay sit inside the linings. I have not yet checked to see if the lids actually fit inside the linings.

It would be good practice for the linings to protect the end grain of the planking assuming marine detailing is similar the building construction.

 

I have a problem where on my build where the line of the cills of the upper gun deck on the outer skin is lower than on the inner bulwark and the linings would slope down from inside to outside. The difference is less front and rear than in the middle. I have decided to lower the cill on the inner bulwark a little so the slope on the cill linings is less pronounced.

Any thoughts?

[Shipyard sid]

Hello peter

Are you going to do the gunport linings now???? DAVID

Edited August 24, 2014 by Shipyard sid

[Rich.F]

Hi Peter,

Ill copy this to your log also,

 

on the upper gun ports, Ports number 3-10 Need to be line before you do the 2nd player of hull planking.. I found the I need to Open all the gun ports,  (What I did was take a lid,part no 323-324, and use that as a template opened up before I planed the Hull)

 

Once you have planked the hull, Line the lower 2 rows of gun ports with 1x6mm  the upper ones are 1x16mm  ""don't forget to set back by 1mm, As i was also informed get a few lenths of balsa strips about 3.2x3.2mm  to line the inside so the linings ave something better to hold.

 

With regards to the linings not matching up I think this is a design flaw, This is from a Post David"Shipyardsid" sent me >

Trim the underside of the bulwark pattern until the outer hull and inner bulwark cills are level, then trim the top until the bulwark pattern fit in with the gun ports level. Don't worry about the bulwark patterns being a bit slack if you overdo it , It all gets planked and hidden. It's a good idea to make up a gun carriage and use the barrel as a gauge if you follow, but remember you need some planking strip under the wheels as your deck is not yet planked. Once you get the deck and bulwark patterns both planked fit a thin trim as an edging if you follow. I have added a photo to help you understand, but will delete if you tell me. Sorry to be long winded. 

 

I think this is  all, If you need anythng else or cant understand me ( most people don't) LOL Give me a shout 

[peterwwebster]

I am switching between planking the upper gun deck and the upper gun deck linings.  I remain unclear as what to do with the gun ports (See my post re John McKay's book which shows the lining outside the lids) If one makes the linings bigger so the lids sit inside the linings there seems no point in setting the linings back 1mm.

 

Maybe I need to stop thinking too much and follow the instructions . Its just as a retired Building Surveyor it makes more sense to set the lids inside the port. I will have a look on the victory web site and see what other info I can find

 

Peter

[foxy]

Yep best fill the gap, will then make the thickness right around the gun ports.

 

Above all do not rush it. have fun.

 

foxy

[Shipyard sid]

Hello peter

Forget about the gunports completely for now. Plank the deck and come back later to sort out any probs you might have with the gunports. The linings must be set back 1mm. Only gunports numbers 3 - 10 on the upper deck do not have a 1mm set back on the linings, as the linings are flush to the hull. Take your time.. DAVID

Edited August 24, 2014 by Shipyard sid

[peterwwebster]

I have been very busy what with planking, lining gun ports, etc but I think I am now about ready to tackle the tiles!

 

 

I decided a long time ago to use Pva glue for the planking and use pins so I have been busy filing the holes and some open joints..

 

I think one of the pitfalls in doing the planking this way is one lowers ones standards and I ended up piecing in small bits of plank rather than cutting planks to fit. Having now done some filing and sanding I decided to apply a coat of primer to fill the grain etc so I will now be doing some more filing and sanding until I have had enough.

 

Here are my pics to date

[Rich.F]

Very Nice work So far, She is starting to take shape.

[Shipyard sid]

Hello peter

Yep it's really coming on now, well done. So you just keep enjoying it , and for Pete's sake take your time ( get it ) DAVID

[Kevin]

Good morning Peter

 

I don't remember ever having to lower any of my gunport openings on the inboard or outboard

 

i tried and failed to line the openings prior to planking, the sills all went in at a later date, long after the wales were set into place, as these gave me the best indication that everything was in the right place

 

i found putting the cills in prior to planking difficult, as you then had to match the planking ends up to the template cut-outs not the cills  , also gave a better finish to paint

 

personally i found it easier the other way around, ie planking then remove the cut-outs, a simple home made jig allowed the cills to be put in with the 1mm recess

 

But putting blocks on the inboard side to rest the cills on was a good idea

Edited October 10, 2014 by Kevin

[peterwwebster]

I am about to tackle the copper plates and have been discussing glues.

 

My problem is that my wife cannot tolerate fumes from Evostick due to her health and as I don't want to incur her wroth I am looking at alternatives. She does not seem to find CA a problem but I find I get that on my fingers.  

 

I have wondered if "No Nails" has been tried . I have seen a small tube, sold as a glue. I thought it may be useful as it will form a bed to level up any imperfections in the planks. It would be a bit like applying wall or floor tiles. Has anyone out there tried it?

 

I am also seeking advice on how to tile the keel.

I thought about starting by laying a tile centrally on the keel and then folding it down the sides to give a neat folded line. The tiles can then be fitted to the side up to the hull so that when the hull is tiled the tiles on the hull will cover the raw cut edge on the side of the keel. Has anyone tried this or is it all to complicated and ambitious

 

Thoughts please

[Shipyard sid]

Hello peter

You could use adhesive copper tape, others have used it and will give you advice. The coppering??? Some copper up from the keel and other down from the water line. My preference is coppering down. I would however run a few rows of plates up from the keel and overlap them slightly with the plates coming down , this will make the coppering under the lower area easier, but that is only my preference. Keep enjoying it and take your time. DAVID

[peterwwebster]

My first tries at using "No nails" to stick the tiles on is good.  A little dab of glue on the hull and then placing the tile on top, press doen to squash the glue out, clean it off and then slide the tile into place,  They also seem to be staying on.   Time will tell but so far so good.

[peterwwebster]

Managed to apply almost a row and a half of tiles and got into trouble on the curves at the bow so sought advice. Consequently the tiles towards the bow have been removed and I will try again.

 

What was good was I found it difficult to get the tiles off so in my beginners view the "No Nails" is a good idea.  Maybe someone more experianced will give it a try and post their thoughts.

 

I will post my pics once I am more advanced

[Rich.F]

Hi Peter, 

 

Takes time to understand, I Have wasted about 200 tiles so far...oops... the curves. for me just happened, I did have a few redo's, as once the following day came and i stood back and look did not like it, Keep going though.

 

How are you getting on with no nails?

[peterwwebster]

Hi Rich

 

Saw your post. Your tiles look good with a nice curve developing. Its a bit fiddly isnt it!!!!

 

I am finding No Nails good and I am sure it is better than CA because you can slide the tiles around, take them off and just like wall tiles if there is a dip just add a bit more glue and squeeze it out. The tiles were difficult to remove once the glue had gone hard so I think I will carry on with No Nails.

 

I noticed people advise that you should wear gloves when sticking tiles so as to stop the oils in ones skin marking the copper. I find it almost impossible to use polythene gloves and I am wiping No Nails off with a damp cloth as work progress. All this means the tiles are getting marked so I plan to try a bit of silver polish. In any event I think an oxidised copper finish is to be preferred over a bright shiny varnished finish so I am happy to see how things develop.

 

I will post some pics in the next few days

 

Keep up the good work

 

Peter

[peterwwebster]

No Nails still seems ok.

 

It cleans off when dry with a damp cloth so here are some pics of work in progress

[Shipyard sid]

Hello peter

Excellent work. The tiling is looking really good, and the curve around the bow looks fine. Keep up the good work, and don't get complacent, this is a real take your time job. DAVID.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Shipyard sid

[peterwwebster]

I have been plodding on with the copper plating and sort of run out of steam  at the stern where its got very messy and does not look right.

So me being me I started on the other side and havong done two rows suddenly thought where I could have done it better.

 

 

A few thoughts for anyone following 

 

If you prime the hull to give a good finish for the tiles use copper or bronze coloured paint. I think it is impossible to get every tiles hard against its neighbour particularly when curves are involved and I can see little white flashes where the primer shows through the gap. 

 

I used styrene strip on the water line. I now see it is not dead straight so when I butt the tiles up to it the lower edge is not dead straight and I get gaps.

On my second side I laid the first row on a straight pencil line a little less than one tiles depth from the styrene strip. I can then infill the gap with tiles cut to fit, I know this means some of the nail head details may get lost but the cut edge is masked by the shadow from the strip. These tiles are laid below the side entry port and run fore and aft and I hope that as the curves kick in the necessary adjustments can be made.  I will post some pics later. 

 

Can anyone tell me how many tiles I should have when I have finished the hull, in other words can I take off bits that are not quite right and redo them?