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HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

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Thanks!

I'm more used to models that place themlike Jotika suggests...

Victory_Const31_lrg.jpg

Jan

THAT is far too near, as the gun would run over. It should be just where the opening starts.

 

Also the breeching line is far too short :-)

 

Gruß, Daniel

Edited by dafi

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Thank you Maurice :-)

 

And what does one do if one is bored? One starts pimping around ...

 

... with the gunport lids I alreadyshowed, that it is possible, to attach the needed ring onto the eyebolts, so why not doing this on a larger scale, say perhaps the breeching ropes?!?

 

So ripped the single guidance ring for the breeching rope out of the carriage, build in the new double one and already prepared the rest. So it looks like there still was place for improvment in the old carriage ;-)

 

800_Victory-breeching_0330.jpg

 

And of course attached the breeching ropes - again showing the infamous goodwin´s preventer breeching rope - and here we are, gun 2.0, aka Dr. Tentacle :-)

 

800_Victory-breeching_0280.jpg

 

And here he comes, Dr. Tentacle´s arch enemy, the incredible Dr. dafi ® - terror of all multi-armed creatures, in his insatiable wish to bind Dr. Tentacle and confine him down onto a secure place!

 

Cleverly Dr. dafi ® puts up a trap:

 

800_Victory-breeching_0256.jpg 

 

... a needle on a shish kebab skewer ...

 

800_Victory-breeching_0254.jpg

 

... makes the aiming markings on the inner hull :-)

 

Afterwards - no not the same picture again ...

 

800_Victory-breeching_0266.jpg

 

... no this time ...

 

800_Victory-breeching_0258.jpg

 

... there is a fine drill attached :-)

 

Then Dr. Tentacle was lured into the trap ...

 

800_Victory-breeching_0285.jpg

 

... and detained :-)

 

800_Victory-breeching_0296.jpg

 

...hihihihihihihihi...

 

... see him fidgeting around in despair but no more escape will be his :-)

 

800_Victory-breeching_0307.jpg

 

Once again Dr. dafi ® wins and shows the limits to one more abominable creature of maritime navyisms!

And please tune in again next week, when we will show: Who the hell is Captain Hook?!?

 

Greetings from the tentacle-tamer, Dr. dafi ®

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ohhhhhhhh.....my head.......it's......vibrating!  the pressure.........it's starting to build!   too much..........I've got....information overload!  arggggggggg!

 

would this be the norm for larger bore cannons?   I can imagine the recoil in touching one of these bad boys off.  you make thing so interesting..........and looks good in the process  ;)       I really enjoy what you do,   good Dr.  :)

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But... where are the tackles in the last pic? :)

He's not fished yet....

 

Seriously: are you going to redo all the previous installed guns, or is it just illustration of growing knowledge, so that each next batch of gun is better than the previous one?

 

Jan

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Thank you Sirs :-)

 

Kevin who?

- Dr dafi® still around, alive and kicking !!!

- Dr. Tentacle is still there to all eternity - he can´t move any more ...

- Captain Hook? Who the hell is Captain Hook?

 

Popeye: As mentioned earlier, the only source I find so far for the preventer breeching is Goodwin. But as in the rigging all important systems are with a redundancy system to get fail safe, I see it quite logical to have one on the breeching ropes too in case of breaking while firing the gun or due to battle damage. Showing it in the build is of course some kind of risky, but  I would like to put this feature up to discussion by doing so. Perhaps this helps to enlighten the affair. Does anybody has any clue or where Goodwin has his sources from?

 

Jan: The special treatment just will be just for those 6 guns that will be run out, as they still will be in the photographic focus for some future documentation. The installed lashed up ones will stay the way they are :-)

But as there is always a growth in ability and know-how, there will be always new solutions and perhaps I will still find out new tricks for the guns on display on the upper deck - who knows, I am already beyond everything that I ever imagined in my wildest dreams when I started this build :-)

 

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited by dafi

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Daniel,

 

I like the kebab stick idea for reaching right through the ship to mark and drill. I am about to do some retro fitting around my cannon so I now know how to do the drilling required! :dancetl6:

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- Dr. Tentacle is still there to all eternity - he can´t move any more 

 

Are you sure - a week is a long time,

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Once again Dr. dafi ® wins and shows the limits to one more abominable creature of maritime navyisms!

And please tune in again next week, when we will show: Who the hell is Captain Hook?!?
 
 

 

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- Dr. Tentacle is still there to all eternity - he can´t move any more 

 

Are you sure - a week is a long time,

 

Do not worry, I will have a close eye on him :-)

 

Thanks Kevin, Ian and Channell

Edited by dafi

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Beautiful work, Dr. Dafi! 

 

Looking through several references on naval ordnance, I could not come across any that showed a second preventer breech rope.  Not sure where Goodwin got it from, but what the heck!  A quick look in Goodwin at the section on ringbolts etc for guns references the Shipbuilders Repository of 1789.

 

There is a great contemporary French drawing available via Wikipedia (i know, not the best of authoritative sources) - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Antoine_Morel-Fatio_pl10.jpg%C2'>

 

I also looked through Captain H. Garbett, RN, Naval Gunnery from 1897.  He has some great illustrations of late 19th century and older naval ordnance, but the only one of the carriage was again sans a second breeching rope.

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Thank you very much Wayne,

 

was there meant to be a link for the Wikipedia? Would like to see the picture :-)

 

Need to have second look at the SRo1789, too.

 

XXXDAn

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Hello Dafi

 

According to John Masefield's "Sea life in Nelsons time"  the breech ropes were doubled for a general fleet engagement, as the recoil

would get more violent as the guns heated being continuouly fired.

 

I wonder what you'll find next to amaze us

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Hi Daniel

 

Two possible explanations:

 

Powder burning produces gases and heat. It's that heat that makes the gases expand and increases pressure within

the barrel eventually expeling the ball.

the metal of the barrel absorbs some of that heat. As it gets warmer and warmer less and less heat it absorbs leaving more

to expand the gases leading to increased pressure higher muzzle velocity and higher recoil.

 

That's one

 

Another would be that as the gun heats the outside diameter increases and the inner diameter decreases as the muzzle wall

expands and you have a tighter fit with less pressure loss.

 

 

But sincerely....... I really don't know

 

 

All the best

Zeh

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The last one is not correct: when an iron ring increases temperature, both the inside as well as the outside diameter increases.

Is a nice experiment at highschool: copper sfere with a diameter slightly below the inner diameter of an copper ring. Sfere won't go through Heat the ring, and the sfere will fall through.

 

My guess is a more violent explosion as the powder heats.

 

Jan

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Daniel,

 

I also like your 'kebab' stick idea, to get the pricker and then the drill into tight spaces. I'll have to try that.

 

I'm also enjoying the 'drama' of your Victory build. :)

 

Incidentally, in his 'HMS Victory, Owner's Workshop Manual', Goodwin says that all 24 and 32 pdr guns were rigged with breeching and preventer ropes, due to their heavy recoil. Also that with a standard charge and rope restraints this could be up to 11'.

Edited by Stockholm tar

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Well I just made it through your complete log for the first time finally. Seems I keep getting part way through and losing my place...

I must say... What an Amazing and Facinating idea exchange and I love your trial by fire methodology Dr dafi.

 

On the guns... I have no clue.... but..... the guns would heat from within the barrel, toward the outer surface. Heat energy always transfers from hot to cold. The powder end would also heat faster then the barrel end as it would be more exposed to the reaction and for a longer time. I visualize the barrel bore becoming teardrop shaped as it heated, at least within the expansion rate of the cannons material at a given temp.

 

Thermally conductive substances such as metals usually transfer heat efficiently, unlike ...say... glass. Thats why a quick change in glass temp on one side causes breakage. The barrel overall, to my thinking at least, would expand radially from the center and more at the flint end.

 

In rocket fuel trials early on. there were early problems in uneven burn causing the launch to be throw off its center of mass causing wobble, which usually lead to mishaps (ie big BOOMS). On a cannon, the walls attempt to prevent this wobble, but as clearances expand the wobble would cause the recoil to be less symmetrical or straight back. A small shift of momentum to the left or right could increase the force on a single sides breeching rope, possibly to its breaking strength, hence a second rope picked up the slack. 

Symmetry of burn would also be critical. In an internal combustion engine the spark plug placement is key to maximizing efficency in torque and HP. Thats why Fords Boss 429 had a semi-hemispherical head and Mopars had a full Hemispherical head design. This forced the redesign of the plug placement in the valve cover center, but creates a more centered push on the piston top. In comparison the cannon has two issues... the flint fires on top (center of the back would be optimal) and the compression surface (ball) is not flat. If the burn reaches the top of the ball before the bottom, I can see a cannon recoiling with a downward thrust as the unsymmetrical burn would cause the ball to spin which could cause lift at the back wheels. Combined that with any side to side action and I'd want a preventer rope. To avoid these issues engines are build to be at tolerance when at temp, but this wouldn't work with cannon as the clearance would be to close on cold fightings.

 

Something I did notice, previously you had one of the breeching ropes wrapped araound the lower back of carraige, but not so in the most recent modification (I think the rings make sense, as some slack helps absorb recoil). That carriage wrap, to me, seems important as it would help force a more symetrical recoil

 

Of course this is all hypothesis and I could be completely mad.

 

Oh and in the entranceway doors. You forgot Pocket doors as an option  :dancetl6: or possibly DeLorean-esk gull-wing doors.....

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Thank you all for your input! Very appreciated :-)

 

Next cleared up the breeching ropes on both sides ...

 

Victory-131019_1224.jpg

 

... especially the loop ...

 

Victory-131019_1228.jpg

 

... and also looked at both sides that the ropes won´t be stuck underneath the wheels.

 

Victory-131019_1226.jpg

 

Then checked the length ...

 

Victory-131019_1223.jpg

 

... and Jan was right, here comes Captain Hook ...

 

Victory-131019_1233.jpg

 

... and have him installed in all his glory.

 

Victory-131019_1235.jpg

 

Victory-131019_1247.jpg

 

Victory-131019_1244.jpg

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi

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Is that beast dead or merely sleeping?   Oh... it's flynot a parrot.  Nevermind. 

 

Good to read that you've solved the preventer rope mystery. 

 

At first I thought the "hot guns jumping and recoiling" was a bit of literary license on part of some authors.  But then, I remembered seeing some videos of American Civil War (aka, The Recent Unpleasantness) where the gunners were firing for effect (load as fast as they could).  I believe it was a competition to get 10 rounds off, points for speed and accuracy.  Last several shots made those cannon jump also. 

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it might be the dead parrot........kipp'in on his back,  after a prolonged squawk  :D :D :D ............ lovely pumage!

 

sweet detail Daniel ;)

Edited by popeye the sailor

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Hi Daniel

 

My your cannons sure are looking great, Two breaching ropes you sure do not want the cannons to get away on you, keep up the great work, Enjoy.

 

Regards   Lawrence

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Thank you Sirs!

 

And next Dr Tentakels wild cousins went too into the trap :-)

 

Victory-131027_1265.jpg

 

But then dafi got trapped himself ...

 

... to much flue - too much nice substances - and forgot on the left hand gun to lead the breeching rope through the big guidance rings on the side of the carriage ...

 

... where both red squares are , gun well glued, breeching ropes well fixed on the hull ...

 

... okokokokok, hard way, means taking the guidance ring out, opening it, putting around the breeching rope, refixing in the eyebolt and reclosing the ring ...

 

... everything in there, deep-deep-down inside the bowels of the Vic ...

 

... tight, dark, but luckily not steamy ...

 

... and somehow managed to fix and even the picture looks ok :-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi

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