HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

[amateur]

Just wondering, how long would this operation take at sea, when the andhors are swinging around, the ropes are wet and slippery...

 

Jan

[dafi]

Never said it was easy :-)

 

But these are just the questions to investigate, see if brings further our understanding.

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

@Kevin

 

Looked at Longridge and I believe that that was more a temporary fix with the two lines running upwards that loosely.

 

XXXDAn

[foxy]

Well it all seem's feasible , but remember dropping anchor was done mostly if not always for bigger ships in port.  

 

So all hands to the ropes.

 

Frank 

Edited March 21, 2016 by foxy

[dafi]

Feasible yes - that says it quite right :-)

 

Even though letting go the anchor was possibly more spectacular - if seen from the lower deck with the flakes running out - getting the anchor up and about was more laborious.

 

Lets do the count: 260 on the spill, 30 handling the messenger, another 50 stowing the cable in the hold. Then another large crew on the forecastle getting the davit out, catting and fishing the anchor, the spill midships manned for the catting and fishing - is 800 men enough one wonders ...

 

XXXDAn

[mtaylor]

800 is probably more than enough, Daniel.  I would imagine that the davit would be set up while the messenger, etc. were being set up.  We have to remember that the gun crews, for example, didn't work anything but the guns or do maintenance (like holystoning) so they would have been the labor for the capstan, stowing, etc.  I'm guessing that some things overlapped such as fishing and securing the anchor but every man had his duty.

[popeye2sea]

I understood that it could take up to four or five hours to raise a large anchor.

Edited March 20, 2016 by popeye2sea

[dafi]

Mark, do not forget, some left specimen are still needed for the handling of Yards and sails :-)

 

I think, it is getting tight, by the means of manpower.

 

Henry, it would be funny to break this down into the single steps just to see how this works.

 

XXXDan

[popeye2sea]

I wish I could find the detailed information that might answer that. 

[popeye2sea]

I think we can assume that working the capstan to haul the ship up till the anchor cable is 'up and down' (the actual term we used to use in the Navy) and then weighing and hoisting the anchor out of the water would take the longest.  The stowage of the cable in the cable tier would run concurrent with this.

The set up, i.e.: Laying out the messenger, breaking down stanchions, and rigging the fish davits would not take that long.  I could see catting, fishing , and stowing the anchor taking , timewise, something in between the two.

 

I bet I could find more info if I spent more time researching.

[popeye2sea]

Of course, you still need men aloft shaking out the sails.  As soon as the anchor is aweigh the vessel is adrift, so you need to set sails for her to be hove to while you finish raising the anchor.

[Kevin]

Right then - my turn to throw the cat amongst the pigeons

you are at sea,

When is the anchor rope removed from the hawse, how difficult a job was it and have you modelled the bungs to replace the rope

I am asking the question after seeing this print by Geoff Hunt

Edited March 29, 2016 by Kevin

[rybakov]

Hi Dafi

 

In the following link you will find the full process of hauling up the anchor, albeit in the late XIX century, and getting under way.

The capstans are still manual and there is the sequence of operations, the stations for the crew, etc.

 

 

http://www.hnsa.org/resources/manuals-documents/age-of-sail/textbook-of-seamanship/getting-under-way-under-sail/

 

 

hope this helps

 

Zeh

[lambsbk]

I am surprised to see how many openings there are that close to the waterline. Any wave action at all and it would be "man the pumps, boys".

[youngtiger1]

Great work as usual Daniel. I don't get as much time here as I like as between life and family I wish there was more hours within the day. However, I have learned and continue to learn new things from your work and Dave's 1/96 Constellation build on this forum. If I can do half as good with my ships...I'll be fully satisfy

 

Mike

[dafi]

Thank you Popeye, I will pick up fishing the anchor as soon as I have more time again, so every help wi ll be welcome :-)

 

Ken, the anchor rope was removed as far as I know as soon as they were leaving the shore. Retrieving it was easier in my opinion, replacing it much more a task using a messenger rope to pull it in place and keep it in place while the lashing was done. The plug still will come of course.

 

Thank you Zeh, will study this :-)

 

Dave, ships were always a wet case in those days ;-)

 

Thank you Mike and Lawrence, always a pleasure to entertain you :-) :-) :-)

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

As I do not find much time to do bigger things, I was looking for bits that could be done in smaller steps :-)

 

And know something very hurtful for all lovers of the classic look, not only the "proposed pink-punk" is new to get used to, much more hurtful and more provable things are on the way ;-)

 

By the "rediscovered" Turner drawings from after the return from Trafalgar one can see clearly the build bulwarks instead of the timber heads. Also 3 ports are to be seen. Compared to the Jotica version I used the smaller holes to give access to the timber heads as seen in the Boyne/Union classes and aft of the waist on todays ship. 

 

Took me some thought to get the smooth curve into all 3 dimensions, so I started with bolting on a base.

 

 

Then determined the position of the ports with some ledger shrouds ...

 

 

... glued on the inner planking, opened the base at the gunport ...

 

 

... temporarily placed the timber heads, fixed in the internal structure ...

 

 

... glued on the outer planking and opened the openings.

 

 

The handrail are two evergreen strips glued together to obtain a nice curve.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers, Daniel

[mtaylor]

Very interesting results based on the research, Daniel.   And with your build, that research is realized in physical form.  As for "hurtful"....  to who?

[dafi]

To the traditionalists :-)

 

XXXDAn

[amateur]

Red striping in stead of yellow:)

[popeye the sailor]

neat way of building up the bulwarks.....I like the way you did it.   very nice work  

[foxy]

Not in my book, that seems both feasible and practical .

 

But am to far advanced to change this on my model.

 

Like it all the same.

 

Frank 

[dafi]

Thank you Jan, Poppy and Frank!

 

@Jan: Worse!

 

XXXDAn

[amateur]

Jan

[mtaylor]

Worse???  Pink stripes then with maybe green wales and purple curtains on the gunports?   Oh.. and paintings on velvet in the great cabins....        

[dafi]

No, I am even NOT taking the flower power sails as reference ;-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited April 4, 2016 by dafi

[amateur]

Not even going into a bottle?

 

Jan

 

 

[dafi]

The admiralty would kill me if I brought such a monster bottle home ...

 

;-)

 

XXXDAn

[amateur]

You should empty it before taking it home

[dafi]

OK - Deal!

 

...ähm...

 

... anybody an idea what is in there? Nelson-brandy?

 

;-)

 

XXXDAn