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HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

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5 minutes ago, dafi said:

Funny enough most modelers build the version that: 

- existed the shortest time

- that is the least documented 

 

But on the other hand modelers have the tendency to be stubborn to new research. But still these changes often contradicted with other knowledge or was soon to be revised like the stern davits on and off and other features. But on the other side, do not forget that we all here are rivet counters and the job the curators did since 1920 really succeeded in bringing the feeling of the old seafarers to the "normal" people, to keep the history alive, no matter all the details we say "THEY" did "WRONG". 

 

XXXDAn

 

IMG_20190107_133939.png

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43 minutes ago, dafi said:

do not forget that we all here are rivet counters and the job the curators did since 1920 really succeeded in bringing the feeling of the old seafarers to the "normal" people, to keep the history alive, no matter all the details we say "THEY" did "WRONG". 

I agree, I very much doubt people would have been inspired by a true 1805 wartime Victory reconstruction, such an austere brooding apparition would not have the grace or beauty of the ship as she is, the 1920’s reconstruction whilst not accurate certainly brings the crowds flocking.

 

That said I’ll be looking to build as true an 1805 version when the Amati 1:64 kit becomes available.

 

Fot those who haven’t seen the NMM 1803 half block model the here it is, this is a fair approximation of what she would have looked like.

 

GaryEAD0E695-5BEA-49D8-8BBC-8FF41FD2C8FF.thumb.jpeg.e6f6416694e7bf5b6d4a8de51e7f430f.jpeg

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Just to update on the latest discussion here on Dafi’s thread I’ve posted some information from the Curator of HMS Victory on the following thread which details how the researchers established the new colour scheme.

 

Gary

 

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On 1/7/2019 at 2:29 PM, Morgan said:

I agree, I very much doubt people would have been inspired by a true 1805 wartime Victory reconstruction, such an austere brooding apparition would not have the grace or beauty of the ship as she is, the 1920’s reconstruction whilst not accurate certainly brings the crowds flocking.

 

That said I’ll be looking to build as true an 1805 version when the Amati 1:64 kit becomes available.

 

Fot those who haven’t seen the NMM 1803 half block model the here it is, this is a fair approximation of what she would have looked like.

 

GaryEAD0E695-5BEA-49D8-8BBC-8FF41FD2C8FF.thumb.jpeg.e6f6416694e7bf5b6d4a8de51e7f430f.jpeg

Thank you Gary, as a good example for the possible color - I always saw this as white and not the creamy tint that it actually is - I would just renew my suspicion about the identification of the model. 

 

See https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6044-wrong-identified-models-of-hms-victory-in-nmm/&do=findComment&comment=175377

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi

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Hi Dafi,

 

I was really highlighting the general appearance and colour scheme as matching what Victory looked like rather than proposing this being a specific facsimile, in fact the colour scheme is closer to Turner’s Trafalgar painting than any other I’ve seen (bearing in mind he produced 2 versions and the colours vary between the two which doesn’t help).

 

I also know the reservations you have over the 1803 half block and the 1805 models, and I’ve also superimposed the Victory plans and see the mismatches, however I’m not hung up over this, I’m inclined to view these post-build models as an aesthetic aid rather than an accurate structural record.  I think this is particularly true of the 1803 model, as the date of the development of the model probably pre-dates the refit. So in my opinion these are not ‘as-built models’, but rather designed to convey an idea of the desired changes or modifications in general.

 

Certainly the 1805 model has greater credibility, and interestingly both Lavery and Goodwin reference this model as representing the intended appearance of the Victory post refit, however they also accept that the full intention of the refit was cut short and not completed, hence the differences on the stern in particular.

 

Also, have you looked at the Union and Boyne plans at the NMM? These were developed from the lines of the Victory, and the 1803 refit was intended to establish the re-fitted Victory as the prototype for future Second Rates. 

 

I also know you reference the issues with the entry port, and the 1805 model shows no entry port, whereas the 1803 model does, as do the Union plans, however, my preference is to rely on artists contemporary sketches, I know Turner has previously been referenced, but neither Constable nor Pocock show an entry port. I accept the issues with plans and models and intention vs. as-built, and I also accept the issues with the painters ‘stylised’ approach. But I think their sketches are believable as these are just  raw ‘data capture’, the contentious issues arise with the subsequent paintings.  It is highly unlikely that 3 such marine artists all missed a prominent feature, given they all saw her first hand between 1803 and 1806. 

 

Gary

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