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Is there a better #11 blade handle


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Found this in the the Ship Modeler's Association news letter, vol. 41, number 9, Sept. 2014.  Dave Yotter wrote...

 

"There was a discussion regarding #11 scalpel blades as a superior alternative to hobby blades like X-acto.  This was brought up before and an excellent place to get these blades is Cincinnati Surgical    hppt://www.cincinnatisurgical.com     They offer a house brand along with the Swann Morton brand  (highly recommended by Mike Lonnercker, Don Dressel and myself once we tried them).  They can be ordered in boxes of 100, $33.00 for the non-sterile ones. They have other blade shapes: I use the #10's a lot and they also have a line of hobby/craft blades.  The have lots to offer so poke around."

 

So I will poke around and get back to you guys. 

 

Phil

Edited by roach101761

Phil Roach

Former Director, Nautical Research Guild

Member Shipmodeler's Guild Southwest Florida

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I use scalpel handles and scalpel blades within long time.

paragon_handle34.jpg

hojasdebisturi.jpg

 

I use the same Swann Morton handles and their No 11 and No 10A blades. I buy the blades in boxes of 100 (unsterilised). I had a lot of problems with rubbish handles for a while before I was able to get the Swann Morton kit.

If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.

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Also consider using a #7 handle.  This is long and thin (think pencil) and allows you to see the tip of the blade without your hand getting in the way.

Toni


Chairman Nautical Research Guild

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Member Midwest Model Shipwrights

 

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I bought the Harbor Freight "deluxe hobby knife" set and it's completely worthless IMHO. In fact, the Harbor Freight handles are actually worse than the X-Acto handles at gripping a blade. To the point of being dangerous. That being said, I too am not happy with the way the #2 and #11 X-Acto handles grip a blade. I'm constantly having to tighten them as well.

 

I think I'll give the scalpel route a try.

Clark Fletcher

 

Current Build: USS Constitution - Model Shipways - 1812 Era Specs

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Tonight I poked around on Amazon.  I made my purchase of various medial devices.   Total cost was just under $33.00.  I bought 4 sets. Each set contained one handle and various included blades.   I bought:

 

 #3 handle with ten #10 and ten #11 blades

 

 #7 handle with ten # 11 blades

 

 a round #3 handle with five #10a and five #15 blades

 

 #4 handle with ten #20 and ten #21 blades

 

There were many economical choices.  I opted for inexpensive handles for now.   I have four handles and 60 blades on the way.

 

Phil

Phil Roach

Former Director, Nautical Research Guild

Member Shipmodeler's Guild Southwest Florida

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I did a similar thing yesterday Phil. Except on eBay. I bought 2 stainless #3 handles and 2 stainless #4 handles. 100 each of the #10, #11, #22, and #25 blades. Total was $30.15 with free shipping.

 

The reason I bought 2 of each handle was so I could keep a #10 and #11 in each of the #3 handles and a #22 and #25 in each of the #4 handles. That way I won't have to be changing blades all the time. We'll see how it works out.

Clark Fletcher

 

Current Build: USS Constitution - Model Shipways - 1812 Era Specs

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It seems that scalpels and blades are ultimately less expensive than the hobby brand craft knives and blades, and as others have pointed out are a superior product.  Not to mention the fact that there also seems to be more variety in cutting blades at the same price points.  I have not gotten my new stuff yet, so I can not judge, but.........someone please tell me why everyone starts with craft handle and #11 blade?

 

Phil

Phil Roach

Former Director, Nautical Research Guild

Member Shipmodeler's Guild Southwest Florida

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I have read through this entire thread, in order to get an understanding of the percieved pros and cons of using x, y, or z knives and blades, I am still not any wiser.

 

This thread brings up for me a number of questions.

 

1 how do you hold the knife?

 

2 what do you use it for?

 

I do not ask these questions lightly or flippantly. I am a firm believer in using the right tool for the job.

In classes that teach how to use various tools, and the safety concerns that are usually addressed and demonstrated, I have never seen any tutorial or visual demonstrations on how to use the ubiquitous hobby knife, perhaps I have not looked hard enough.

 

My understanding of a scalpel is that it is designed and used for surgery, please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding. The fact that it is a very sharp small knife gives it a broad range of other uses, and for me this is the rub.

 

When choosing a tool to do a particular task I think that we, I mean we, because we all do it, often reach for a familiar tool out of habit or because someone showed or told us that this worked -- but is it the right tool for the task?

 

I am going to start a new thread asking you to show what you use the knife for and how you hold it, Get someone else to take the picture. I think that this will be very instructive.

 

When I was in the business of making commercial models we used a lot of exacto #11 blades for cutting plexiglass by using the back edge as a scraping blade to scratch a fine line then the plexiglass or styrene was snapped to length in preparation for the next task.

I supplied the blades for the staff and used to buy them by the thousands. I have boxes of old brand new blades with just the very tip snapped off. I resharpen them when I need one which is not very often.

 

Michael

Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8;      Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8;       Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500 ;   Maria, 1:2  Now just a memory    

Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8

Finished projects  A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100  

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.

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I have read through this entire thread, in order to get an understanding of the percieved pros and cons of using x, y, or z knives and blades, I am still not any wiser.

 

This thread brings up for me a number of questions.

 

1 how do you hold the knife?

 

2 what do you use it for?

 

 

For me, the answer to these two questions does not shed any light on the problem nor reveal a solution to the problem. Regardless of how I hold the knife or what I'm using the knife for, the X-Acto handles currently on the market don't grip the blades very well.

Clark Fletcher

 

Current Build: USS Constitution - Model Shipways - 1812 Era Specs

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When I am scoring metal or working on a tough piece I will use an exacto blade but for fine cutting I use the scalpel blade.  Both have a place depending on what you are doing.

David B

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Phil,

 

I agree with Jay and wq3296.  The older X-Acto handles are heavier and hold any X-Acto blade fast.  Look for them at yard sales.

 

I have found that a better handle for scalpel blades is the Veritas Carvers Knife from Lee Valley (happy customer only).

 

David B has pointed out that both X-Acto and scalpel blades have a place in the tool box.

 

 

 

Paul

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I started this thread because I have become really frustrated with the X-acto handles.  I have one in which the collar is actually splitting, and it is an X-acto brand handle.  Just so all of you know, I have never been, nor will I ever be one of those guys who thinks that a new putter or the latest driver will make me a better golfer(modeler).  Clark is right on the money.   I need a better handle. Thus far, I will test the Tamiya handle and the selection of scalpels.  If I can find a rear tightening handle I will try that too.  However, I think in the end, they will all be very well suited to particular tasks I believe you like what you are use to and what you have become comfortable with.  

 

Phil

Phil Roach

Former Director, Nautical Research Guild

Member Shipmodeler's Guild Southwest Florida

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I would like to add my two cents worth.  I got some of the old exacto knives back in the late 1950's and they are still my favorite.  I have never had a blade pull out of one of them when I was trying to cut with it.  However, of the recent knife handles I have gotten, either Excell, or Exacto, blades are always slipping in them.  I got to looking at the differences and only found 1 difference.  The screw part on my old Exacto handles have a single slot for the blade. (\) all of my newer ones have an (X) slot.  Those are the ones that cannot hold onto the blade.  I took a strip of brass just about the thickness of my blades and filled the extra slots on the holders, and folded over the extra end to hold itself from falling down the slot when the holder is empty.  Success!  that one no longer slipps to any great degree.  The extra slot was making the holder unable to grip the blade on tightening.  I am not sure why the knife makers started making that (X) slot, but I do believe that it is the cause of the looseness on the blades.  

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I would like to add my two cents worth.  I got some of the old exacto knives back in the late 1950's and they are still my favorite.  I have never had a blade pull out of one of them when I was trying to cut with it.  However, of the recent knife handles I have gotten, either Excell, or Exacto, blades are always slipping in them.  I got to looking at the differences and only found 1 difference.  The screw part on my old Exacto handles have a single slot for the blade. (\) all of my newer ones have an (X) slot.  Those are the ones that cannot hold onto the blade.  I took a strip of brass just about the thickness of my blades and filled the extra slots on the holders, and folded over the extra end to hold itself from falling down the slot when the holder is empty.  Success!  that one no longer slipps to any great degree.  The extra slot was making the holder unable to grip the blade on tightening.  I am not sure why the knife makers started making that (X) slot, but I do believe that it is the cause of the looseness on the blades.  

 

That's interesting Walter. I think I have some old X-Acto handles buried away somewhere and I do remember that the older handles have a single slot instead of the X slot on my current handles. I'll have to give them a try (assuming I can find them).

Clark Fletcher

 

Current Build: USS Constitution - Model Shipways - 1812 Era Specs

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I checked the configurations of 4 of my knives (3 Xacto, 1?).  All my Xactos are single slot  and hold blades well. The mystery handle is an X config., but I use it for chisel blades (#17s, I believe).

Ken

Started: MS Bounty Longboat,

On Hold:  Heinkel USS Choctaw paper

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I got this from Amazon for $6.00 - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006HVRPO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

It's an X-Acto soft countoured handle and it has the single-slot blade grip instead of the X type.  It's also got a raised spot on the handle to keep it from rolling off the desk.  

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I had a handle similar to that if not the same style.  I found it kind of awkward to use.

David B

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I may have spoken too soon.

 

All of my newer X-Acto brand handles are single slot. I have an older handle that has an X-slot collet. However, I can't identify what brand it is. Funny thing is, the  handle is close in size to all of my handles that accept a #2 blade but, the #2 blades are slightly to large to fit into the handle.

 

As far as the single-slot X-Acto handles, while I've had a great deal of trouble getting them to grip the blades, it may be attributable to the fact that, having surgery on both wrists just prior to the end of last year, my grip is not quite back to full strength and I may not be able to tighten them sufficiently to properly grip the blades. However, having said that, one design improvement that X-Acto could put in to make this easier is to knurl both the tightening nut and the handle next to the tightening nut. What I find is that while I can grip the tightening nut, the handle slips in my fingers when trying to tighten the nut.

 

I also took another look at the Harbor Freight "deluxe hobby knife" set again. While almost all of the knifes use a plastic collet, most of the collets tighten near the blade. However, on two of the handles the plastic collet runs inside the entire length of the handle and are threaded on the end opposite of the blade for a tighten nut. While I detest the plastic collets, these two handles in particular seem to have much less trouble holding the blade.

Clark Fletcher

 

Current Build: USS Constitution - Model Shipways - 1812 Era Specs

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I have been using and trying many differents kinds of knives since many years. In the hobby knife category:

 

LEFT

1 2 3 does not cut very much steel too soft

4 5 6 same family  higher grade than exacto

7 8  interesting

 

MIDDLE

 

exacto  and  metal surgical handle

 

execptionally use

 

RIGHT

 

laguignole every time I touch  the blade on the first one I bought to see how much it is cutting, I was cutting myself. The highest grade of steel I have seen. Cuts very much but not really done for hobby use.

 

Acrylic handle, this is almost  the only knive I use.

The blade has no  cutting comparison with exacto, much less strenght is needed to cut so greater precision is achieved.

I would compare this  to using a scroll saw. with a cheap one it is difficult if not impossible to slice paper thin slice of wood.

With a good one like Hegner precision is no comparison and you can cut paper thin slices.

post-184-0-87925200-1424617083_thumb.jpg

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I agree with Gaetan: there is no comparison with surgical blades to Exacto ones. Of course, they are not intended for heavy cutting.

 

(A Languinole, Gaetan? A very lovely tool for large whittling or carving and, as you say, a beautiful blade!)

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I'm still using my grandfathers #11 knife. Of course my dad replaced th blade aand I replaced the handle,but its still my grandfathers knife. Kidding aside, I resharpen exacto blades a lot. I also grind the very sharp point off at an angle as the seem to break away anyway. Bill

Bill, in Idaho

Completed Mamoli Halifax and Billings Viking ship in 2015

Next  Model Shipways Syren

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well,  I now know the answer.   Over the past week my new surgical tools arrived.  I received  Numbers 4, 3, and 7 handles  and a 7 handle that was for dental work.  With those I received a number of different blades. (10,11,20 and 21).  Of course Surgical tools were a side bar to the real question as to whether there is a better number 11 handle.   I got out some wood; Cherry, Walnut, Box wood, and Bass wood. I started making cuts with the new surgical tools and blades, two X-acto handles with Number 11 blades and my new Tamiya hobby knife with the o'l number 11.  Craft knife number 11 blades were, testors, excel, Tamiya and x-acto.  We all know that we try to do too much with our knives.  Cuts we should saw rather than cut.  The surgical tools did NOT make the grade here. Here is a super technical term.  The surgical blades were too "wiggly".  The blades are not clamped into the handle. They sort of snap in place by springing the blade into place.  The metal of the surgical blades is thinner.  I measured on my Caliper .36mm.  Craft #11 measured .50mm. I hope someone will let me know how accurate my caliper is.  The surgical blades were far more flexible.  They can not take a lot of pressure.   I also learned, that although not exact, the surgical blade types and sizes roughly correlate to the same types as the craft blades.  

 

As to the #11 blades, I found no discernible difference in brand.

 

Some people swear by the surgical tools.  Knowing personally two of the individuals who posted their testimony above, I also know they are much better and more proficient modeler's than myself.  I could see the benefit in a more skilled operator. For instance(even for me) they are superior for shaving type operations(because they more readily flex) and if I were cutting paper for making templates you would be hard pressed to find a better blade and handle than the surgical blades. My handles were very  inexpensive, however the weight in all the handles was very evenly distributed with the exception  of the dental tool where the weight was in the end toward the blade.  I will keep my surgical tools and I will order better handles.  I liked the number 7 handles because you hold them like a pencil, and therefore you have more control.  They will all go into my tool box and I will continue to use them, I am sure I will learn the best applications for me. 

 

Another draw back for the surgical blades is they are more delicate and as a result I do not think they hold their edge as well as the craft blade.(I would like someone to confirm or refute my conclusion on whether they do not hold their edge as well)  They became duller much faster for me.

 

However, to the point,  I will keep my X-ACTO handle, and I will keep my Tamiya handle.  These are CRAFT knives.  I do not want anyone to chew my head off, or start another discussion, but building ship models is a Craft for most of us.  The handles are beefier, the blades are thicker. I Like the X-acto handles I have because the weight of the handle is evenly distributed through out.   An advantage in making  heavy cuts in which you grip the knife with the whole of the palm of your hand.   I like the Tamiya handle(it is longer) because the weight is in the end, for when you want a finer detail cut and you grip the handle like a pencil. 

 

Tamiya's method of clamping the blade is a superior method.(I am sure it is patented)  As I stated in a previous post, it grips the edges of the blade evenly.  X-acto clamps the flat of the blade by squeezing the colet closed, only really at one end. There is probably no contact at the rear of the blade.  This I think allows the blade to slide.  The machining and materials  in current X-acto handles leaves much to be desired.   I would appreciate a finer made tool with less slack tolerances. I think X-acto should at least re-design the colet so it is only .50mm wide at the base and wider at the top.  This would clamp the blade more uniformly. 

 

Is there a better #11 blade handle for all purposes?  NO.  Have the right tool for the job.  Use the tool that you like best and know how to use.  It is safer that way. However, Tamiya's colet seems better to me.

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Phil Roach

Former Director, Nautical Research Guild

Member Shipmodeler's Guild Southwest Florida

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Well said and tested, Phil.   Thanks for the feedback.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

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Model Expo has packs of 100 Excel brand  # 11 blades for about $27.00 US. They last 3 times longer than X-Acto, and are cheap enough to toss when they finally do  get dull. I've used both and found the Excel to last way longer, and work great in the X-Acto handles.

GEORGE

 

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Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn.

 

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Mostly I use the excel blades because Model Expo sells them as George mentions above.  I have Testors because they were on clearance at Wal-Mart.  I have the X-acto blades because they come with he knife handles I keep having to buy.  It is not likely I will buy more Tamiya blades due to lack of bulk availability and the extreme cost of just 5 blades. 

 

Phil

Phil Roach

Former Director, Nautical Research Guild

Member Shipmodeler's Guild Southwest Florida

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