yvesvidal

Amati and Chris Watton

730 posts in this topic

In MSW incarnation #1, there was a few threads about the work of Master modeler Chris Watton and some upcoming kits that he was designing for Amati.

 

I was wondering if there is anything new in that direction. I remember very vividly two gorgeous models in preparation for Amati:

 

1) The Bellona (unfortunately at the scale of 1/72 - I wish it would be available at 1/64th))

bellonacomplete6.jpg

 

 

2) The HMS Victory at 1/64th, using a new technique based on MDF for the building of the hull and inner decks.

victoryprogforsergio4zp.jpg

 

Could anybody shed some light on these two kits?

 

And then of course, there was also the Revenge:

 

revengecomplete7.jpg

 

Thanks in advance.

Yves

dgbot, biff, Old Sea Dog and 5 others like this

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Yves,

 

Don't know the status myself, but I had just sent Chris an email to see if he would repost this thread of Victory Models update.

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I think the Bellona is about a year from commercial launch. He was alos working ona Racebuilt galleon "Revenge" which was really beautiful

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I'm also looking forward to the Revenge when it's released, the photos that were posted looked really great.

 

Chris had also mentioned his wife was looking to restart their 'Online-Hobbies' retail site but it still seems to be down. Would be great to know if they still plan to restart it.

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Hi Yves,

 

I dont know the full range of kits from Amati but I think youll find that the Bellona is of the same class and design as HMS Agamemnon, this kit can be obtained from Caldercraft and is 1/64th scale, the slight differences can be changed and I'm sure you will be able to obtain the decorations for her.

 

Hope this helps.

 

mobbsie

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Mobbsie,

 

The Aggie is a 64 gun ship. The Bellona is a 74.

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Hi Mark, you are absolutely right mate, when I was looking her up I thought she bore a great resemblance to the Aggie so I assumed she was of the Ardent class of cruiser.

 

Got that wrong didnt I, thanks for putting me right mate. :(  :)

 

mobbsie

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Hi Mark, you are absolutely right mate, when I was looking her up I thought she bore a great resemblance to the Aggie so I assumed she was of the Ardent class of cruiser.

 

Got that wrong didnt I, thanks for putting me right mate. :(  :)

 

mobbsie

 

 

No worries, Mobbsie. That was an honest error as I had to double check before I posted.   I hope you'll return the favor when I mess up. ;)

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Hi,

 

I am sorry it took so long to re-register - but I have been very busy - plus my internet has been intermittent.

 

Whilst developing and building the Victory prototype, I have made many changes 'on the fly' - sometimes for realism/previous part not quite right to adding more detail - especially the stern windows.

 

I have just completed the boat designs, anchors (100mm long!) and made four new cannon barrel masters - here are some pics:

 

Vic1_zpsff6cb317.jpg

 

Copper plates laid in two distinct bands:

 

Vic2_zpsf83edda2.jpg

 

Rudder is very easy to copper.....:

 

Vic3_zps8144dc05.jpg

 

Main Channel:

 

Vic4_zpsd8a5cd17.jpg

 

Vic9_zps20359f2b.jpg

 

Vic10_zpsa28012cb.jpg

 

Vic5_zpsa3d4cb17.jpg

 

Vic6_zpsd9dfeb99.jpg

 

Checking the cannon masters:

 

Vic7_zps0e3f366b.jpg

 

As for release dates for kits, I am sorry, I cannot help. I have as much idea as you, as I only design and develop the kits, and have nothing to do with release strategy....

 

 

Chris

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Hi Chris,

 

Good to hear from you again, your Victory looks magnificent, beautiful lines on the stern and Quarter Galleries.

 

One question, I see you have included Stern Davits, does this mean you are not aiming the period of the kit specifically to the Trafalgar configuration?

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

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Hi BE.

 

The stern davits are purely optional. (No holes cut into the stern, so leaving them off isn't a problem). It is important to note that if I were to design the stern as per her Trafalgar configuration, the stern would look very different to how it looks today, on the real thing. If I did design the stern as per 1803/05, too many people who don't know what it actually looked like would complain and say it's wrong.

 

Also, I don't buy the built up bulwarks for the forecastle. I have only ever seen these on Victory on paintings of her taken years after Trafalgar, where the artist has incorporated configurations contemporary to the artist, and not of 1803/05 (one famous painting even shows Victory with a later round bow with continuous front bulwarks). With a 'square' forecastle, build up bulwarks does not look right, perhaps looking a little awkward - But that's just my own personal opinion based on many drawings and paintings I have studied over the years.

 

More drawings/paintings than not show stern davits and timberheads at the forecastle, so this is what I include - but as I said, the stern davits are entirely optional.

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Thanks for dropping in and sharing with us Chris.

 

Later 42rocker

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I'm slightly puzzled by your thoughts Chris in that if I were to design the stern as per her Trafalgar configuration, the stern would look very different to how it looks today,: contemporary evidence, in the form of a sketch of the stern by John Livesay, Drawing Master at the Royal Naval Academy in Portsmouth, dated December 1806, shows her looking very much as she does today even down to the decorative figures. The drawing was done on her return from Trafalgar.

 

The Prince of Wales feathers are also absent, these were a later embellishment being fitted in 1837 having been removed from the Prince.

 

I certainly agree that the Foc'sle looks better with the exposed timberheads, regardless of any historical considerations.

 

Regarding the Stern Davits there is a reference in 'Nelson's Ships' by Peter Goodwin, in relation to the contemporary model of Victory in her 1803 configuration:

 

"Also there are no fixed boat davits, these were abolished with the introduction of the closed stern circa 1796." (NMM)

 

Presumably this is why they no longer appear on HMS Victory, which they did for many years.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

 

 

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I'm slightly puzzled by your thoughts Chris in that if I were to design the stern as per her Trafalgar configuration, the stern would look very different to how it looks today,: contemporary evidence, in the form of a sketch of the stern by John Livesay, Drawing Master at the Royal Naval Academy in Portsmouth, dated December 1806, shows her looking very much as she does today even down to the decorative figures. The drawing was done on her return from Trafalgar.

 

The Prince of Wales feathers are also absent, these were a later embellishment being fitted in 1837 having been removed from the Prince.

 

I certainly agree that the Foc'sle looks better with the exposed timberheads, regardless of any historical considerations.

 

Regarding the Stern Davits there is a reference in 'Nelson's Ships' by Peter Goodwin, in relation to the contemporary model of Victory in her 1803 configuration:

 

"Also there are no fixed boat davits, these were abolished with the introduction of the closed stern circa 1796." (NMM)

 

Presumably this is why they no longer appear on HMS Victory, which they did for many years.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

I think I have to disagree regarding the stern's appearance...

 

ModelVictorystern1803_zps1e18fc6d.jpg

 

But correct about the stern davits - but perhaps in another 10-20 year's time, further evidence will suggest that Victory did indeed have davits. This is how research seems to ebb and flow, I have noticed....

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I am aware of that model Chris but I rather think the contemporary drawing by Livesay has to have greater credibility.

 

John%2520Livesay%25201806%2520Victory.jp

 

But regardless of all that it is a very fine Victory you have designed, we are lucky to have you :)

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

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I am aware of that model Chris but I rather think the contemporary drawing by Livesay has to have greater credibility.

 

John%2520Livesay%25201806%2520Victory.jp

 

But regardless of all that it is a very fine Victory you have designed, we are lucky to have you :)

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

Phew - that looks like my stern! Thanks for that, B.E.

 

Even with a ship as famous as this, there are still many interpretations. For the most part, I have been using Alan McGowen, John Goodwin and John McKay for most of the detail.

 

There are no castings for the stern and side gallery decoration - I was pleased with how the Mercury layered PE decoration came out, so did the same for Victory. This allows me to draw them as good and as accurate as they can be, and they will never change in size or look too thick - and being easier to paint well.

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It seems evident to me Chris that the Livesay drawing was the basis of the Victory restoration, and subsequently followed by all modern authors and producers of Victory models from Caldercraft to Airfix.

 

I think John Livesay can be relied upon to have reflected accurately how the stern of Victory looked in 1805/06, as Drawing Master his role was to teach Naval personnel not art but the ability to draw what they saw for technical and record purposes.

 

I think you can rest easy with the design of your Victory stern. :)

 

B.E.

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Chris,

 

It is good to see you again in this forum after such long hiatus. Your Victory looks fantastic and you have made some incredible progress.

Is it still the model that we saw before with bulkheads and internal decks made of thin composite boards?

Would you mind posting additional pictures of the kit under construction?

 

Thanks in advance.

Yves

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Chris,

 

It is good to see you again in this forum after such long hiatus. Your Victory looks fantastic and you have made some incredible progress.

Is it still the model that we saw before with bulkheads and internal decks made of thin composite boards?

Would you mind posting additional pictures of the kit under construction?

 

Thanks in advance.

Yves

Hi,

 

Yes, it is the same model. It seems to have took an age to get this far due to all of the internal work.

 

Victoryprogressforsergio1_zps8c1a268e.jp

Victoryprogforsergio4_zps0e0aacbf.jpg

 

I have added PE window frames to the kit version of the area in front of the stove, after my trip to Portsmouth

Victoryprogforsergio8_zps44f229ce.jpg

Victoryprogforsergio7_zps3eef7f8f.jpg

lowergundeck.jpg

Victoryprogforsergio2_zpsca05c686.jpg

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Well done sir.....Chris that is an excellent model and kit design.

 

And WELCOME BACK.

 

Chuck

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Great looking model Chris. Piggy bank relabelled to HMS Victory fund.

 

David

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Well done sir.....Chris that is an excellent model and kit design.

 

And WELCOME BACK.

 

Chuck

Thank you Chuck! That means a lot coming from you.

 

I had anticipated finishing this one by June/July - but there is so much to it that for the first time, I have grossly underestimated the development time and looks like this will go on until September at least!

 

I must weigh it when complete...

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Hello Mr Watton,

Welcome back on the site and thank you very much for posting this! Now I know for sure I will buy and build this kit when available!  :)

What's the length of the hull, by the way?

Jack Panzeca likes this

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Hello Mr Watton,

Welcome back on the site and thank you very much for posting this! Now I know for sure I will buy and build this kit when available!  :)

What's the length of the hull, by the way?

Thank you :)

 

The length of the hull, from stern to figurehead is 1066mm.

 

With the bowsprit and mizzen boom, it increases to 1582mm, or there about.

 

After working on it for so long, it doesn't look that big anymore.....

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I must weigh it when complete...

 

I bet it must be heavy with that skeleton made of MDF boards. It will be interesting to place the Syren next to the Victory model, since they are at the same scale.

 

Yves

 

Yves

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I don't think the MDF would add too much more to the weight than ply, to be honest, as most parts are not too big or thick - the hull is mostly a very strong but hollow shell.

 

One thing you may be pleased about is the gun port inner linings - they are all laser cut in 1mm ply (No sill on the lower inside edge of the ports, just top and sides) - and all of the gun port lids are laser cut.

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Chris,

 

What a great design.  It is truly an honor to see your development.  Thanks for taking the time from your busy schedule to share this with us here.  Hope my body can hold out before this kit comes available.  I've said before, but I'll say it again, Amati is truly lucky to have you.

edmay likes this

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Chris: Are you planning to have a double plank on Bulkhead or single plank.. from just looking at the framing and gunports you have designed so far I would think you are doing single plank. Are you also in a position to guess what wood you would use for planking?

 

Enquiring minds want to know

 

Great job so far.. extremely impressive work

 

Mike Draper

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