yvesvidal

Amati and Chris Watton

730 posts in this topic

This looks like a very interesting kit and a very good base to do a model of this famous ship in her appearance during the American Wars of Revolution.

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Chris: Are you planning to have a double plank on Bulkhead or single plank.. from just looking at the framing and gunports you have designed so far I would think you are doing single plank. Are you also in a position to guess what wood you would use for planking?

 

Enquiring minds want to know

 

Great job so far.. extremely impressive work

 

Mike Draper

Hi Mike,

 

Of course! First planking is 1.5x6mm limewood and second is 1x5 walnut:

 

Firstplanking1_zpsb41e62ca.jpg

Firstplanking2_zps298e0a5e.jpg

Firstplanking3_zps4658b507.jpg

 

Second planking:

Firstplanking4_zps657924a7.jpg

Firstplanking5_zpsf3a3d910.jpg

 

Followed by wales:

Firstplanking6_zps5f85ce6b.jpg

Firstplanking7_zps881c1be3.jpg

Firstplanking8_zpsdb27c665.jpg

 

And while the hull is free from clutter:

Firstplanking9_zps9888dbfc.jpg

Firstplanking10_zps5cd29813.jpg

 

Chris

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Wow indeed!

 

Thank you :)

 

The length of the hull, from stern to figurehead is 1066mm.

 

With the bowsprit and mizzen boom, it increases to 1582mm, or there about.

 

After working on it for so long, it doesn't look that big anymore.....

 

Well, that makes her about twice as long as Fly! I'll need a bigger modeling table...

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Chris: Thanks for the response on the hull planking as well as the great pics of her planked hull.. incredible detail

 

Mike Draper

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Wow. Finally a model that is over 5 feet long so that you can get real good detail. The size will make the job of rigging more enjoyable and allow it to be rigged better. One I would love to see and think it deserves this type of treatment would be the HMS Prince from the 17th century. At a scale of 1:50, this would be a kit to die for. With the modern technology, what was almost impossible for normal modelers can now be achieved through laser cutting and the like. Love the the Amati castings. They are so well done. Even if I was artist or great carver, I would still use their castings to save time and effort.

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Wow. Finally a model that is over 5 feet long so that you can get real good detail. The size will make the job of rigging more enjoyable and allow it to be rigged better. One I would love to see and think it deserves this type of treatment would be the HMS Prince from the 17th century. At a scale of 1:50, this would be a kit to die for. With the modern technology, what was almost impossible for normal modelers can now be achieved through laser cutting and the like. Love the the Amati castings. They are so well done. Even if I was artist or great carver, I would still use their castings to save time and effort.

I have just stepped the bowsprit and lower masts, just to make sure they fit smoothly through all of the decks - it is then that I realised how big it's going to be..

 

I have redesigned the 64th scale Prince (which happens to be my favourite ship model), and that, until Victory was the largest model I have done. 1:48 would definitely be too large - I think 64th is the limit for 1st Rates. The length of the Prince hull is only 100mm shorter than Victory at around 965mm (without the bowsprit)

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Chris,

 

What would be great would be to have a picture of the Victory Hull that you are building with a human reference next to it: a hand or a person holding it. I think it would provide a perspective that is missing from the pictures you gave us.

 

Thanks

Yves

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Chris,

 

What would be great would be to have a picture of the Victory Hull that you are building with a human reference next to it: a hand or a person holding it. I think it would provide a perspective that is missing from the pictures you gave us.

 

Thanks

Yves

I'll do that once the masts are in place.

 

One thing I meant to add - after visiting the Victory a few weeks back and taking loads of pics, and seeing details close up, I realise that most kits (and I would have done the same) use planks for the decks that are way too wide. From looking at the upper deck planks, they equate to something like 3mm wide in 64th scale, so 3mm wide tang is what I'll use.

 

I just added some gun port window frames for the ports under the poop - I realised that with the poop/quarterdeck removable bulkheads in place, the cannon wouldn't have been run out (probably..), and perhaps were placed parallel to the bulwarks - also after seeing the real thing, I added hinges for the removable/foldable bulkheads..

 

A few pics from Portsmouth (It was the only nice day we had last month - a day later we had snow!):

 

Portsmouthtripforsergio51_zps28e3f451.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio57_zpsd9e4f02d.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio48_zps35733b29.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio47_zps5de209f2.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio46_zpsf3a5f244.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio45_zps2da4d73e.jp

 

 

 

Portsmouthtripforsergio43_zpsf20fbd33.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio42_zps6dd1a07a.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio40_zps7d25401a.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio38_zps7edf853d.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio35_zpseec0e732.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio28_zps617a1e58.jp

 

 

Since studying this and other photos, I changed the pillars of the bulkheads to resemble the ones in the pic, and added the bulkhead hinges at the top:

Portsmouthtripforsergio61_zpscabfb05c.jp

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Great photos Chris. Thanks for sharing them with us. I too like the Launching of HMS Warrior.

 

Do you know what scale that's built in ?

 

David

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Note that there is no inner lip to the lower inside edge of the gun ports:

 

Portsmouthtripforsergio21_zps41663d86.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio20_zps96cb1e6e.jp

 

I actually traced around the finer details of a lot of the decoration detail from pictures taken head-on. I did this for the lower quarter gallery detail and stern detail (coat of arms, figures and surrounding relief) and then resized them to the correct scale.

 

Portsmouthtripforsergio52_zpsc0459d5f.jp

Portsmouthtripforsergio53_zps412c535a.jp

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Great photos Chris. Thanks for sharing them with us. I too like the Launching of HMS Warrior.

 

Do you know what scale that's built in ?

 

David

The Victory as launched model is definitely 48th - but I can't remember the scale of the excellent Warrior diorama.

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Thank you very much for the pictures Chris (makes me want to go back to Portsmouth even more...) ! This will be helpful as a reference for building the kit. One thing I noticed also on the deck planking is that treenails do not show, actually.

 

What will you do for the rigging : full rigging or her present lower-masts only restauration stage?  :D

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Thank you very much for the pictures Chris (makes me want to go back to Portsmouth even more...) ! This will be helpful as a reference for building the kit. One thing I noticed also on the deck planking is that treenails do not show, actually.

 

What will you do for the rigging : full rigging or her present lower-masts only restauration stage?  :D

I would never show treenails for something as small as 64th scale, not even caulking. I notice that caulking is actually only slightly darker than the planks themselves, sometimes as near as damn it the same colour. The only two models I have ever 'caulked' is a 24th scale cutter and the 32nd scale Scottish fishing boat - even then I used a wood filler and sanded it back. It looked a lot more natural and realistic, being a slightly different shade than the planking. Black thread or lining the edge with a black pen isn't for me....

 

Yes - full rigging. The main mast is about 520mm long...

 

I feel I must edit this post to add that what I wrote regarding treenails and caulking is entirely my own personal opinion - this is a very subjective area - I have seen many models that look superb with caulking and treenail effects added, and in no way does it detract from the overall finish of the model, if executed well.

Padeen and mtaylor like this

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I took a few more pics for myself (rather than the construction sequence pics) today. This is where I am up to:

 

Vicprog3_zpsf2e0fef3.jpg

Vicprog1_zpse2646228.jpg

Vicprog6_zps7439d609.jpg

 

The skid beams were a bit of a dilemma - do I design them in two halves, as per the original, or do I just draw a curved beam. I settled on the former, as I figured that most can shape the curve for the beams, but it is more difficult to simulate the scarfing. (I also remembered to add the belaying pins to the beams, as well as the blocks for the fore topsail braces..)

 

A lot of parts have been modified whilst building, so the kit parts will have more accuracy than my prototype.

 

Unfortunately, I had to put the top deck on before I received the cannon barrels, so I couldn't add the detail to the upper gun deck cannon assemblies (In the kit, you'll be able to fully assemble the cannon and carriages before fixing the top decks in place) - but I couldn't wait, otherwise I'll never get it finished. :(

 

Chris

 

(The catheads do have end decoration - I just haven't glued them on yet..and I have made all of the gun port lid assemblies - but will leave them off for now as they're quite delicate.)

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Absolutely a gorgeous build, Chris!  

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Absolutely a gorgeous build, Chris!  

Thank you! But I am very much looking forward to see what others do with the kit.

 

Another little dilemma I had was the cleats on the inner bulwark of the upper gun deck, for the sheets and tacks. Some sources show Stag horn cleats (Longbridge) and others (including the Victory herself) show standard cleats. As with the stern davits, I will include both options in the kit (The Stag horn cleats would have looked nicer, as they have photo etched panel detail)

 

ETA - the cleats (on the inside of upper gun deck bulwarks) on my model are too small, as I had intended to use stag horns - but after visiting Victory and seeing cleats, I felt I had no choice. the ones in the kit are the correct size. Also, I have added more window frames to the stern, so the modeller has a choice of opened or closed upper windows, as well as middle and lower.

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just been looking at this wonderful prototype model, and no disrespect but can i ask why like Jokita you only have 134 balustrades on the stern instead of 138, every wooden model I have ever seen seems to get the stern wrong, for some reason or other they all have the top balustrades smaller than the bottom ones (even the plastic heller) when in fact they are the same size at only 2 feet

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just been looking at this wonderful prototype model, and no disrespect but can i ask why like Jokita you only have 134 balustrades on the stern instead of 138, every wooden model I have ever seen seems to get the stern wrong, for some reason or other they all have the top balustrades smaller than the bottom ones (even the plastic heller) when in fact they are the same size at only 2 feet

I think that perhaps most use the same resources, which are treated as gospel and blindly followed.

 

Just like I did.

 

However, as you have pointed this out, I checked, double checked and triple checked with the photos I have. there are indeed 69 balustrades per tier on the rear.

I now have no choice but to add the two extra per tier - a lot of work as each balustrade is different due to the curvature and angles - but, if it means that this kit will be the most accurate to date (on this aspect, at least), it's certainly worth doing. What will be in the kit will be the full fat 138 balustrades, with both tiers the same height.

 

Edited to add:

 

I think that perhaps there is an issue to gap tolerances, especially with photo etched versions. You see, if the etched part is made from 0.7mm sheet, then there cannot be any gap in-between the parts smaller than 0.7mm, and 0.9 must have a gap of 0.9mm, otherwise they may not be produced properly in the etching process. Now, the gap I now have with the full 69 balustrades is 0.6mm, and this is at 64th scale, so smaller scales with have even less tolerance.

 

Chris

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OK, have been up working all night. The designs for the lower tier of stern balustrades is complete - 69 of them and 9.25mm high. The top tier will have the same amount and will also be 9.25mm high. This worked out fine, as there were a couple of slight changes I wanted to make anyway.

 

@ Willz,

 

I have to ask though, there are so many obvious errors in some kit versions of this vessel (way oversized castings, odd shaped sterns etc..) that are visibly noticeable just by cursory glances, why does one balustrade less per side irk you so much?

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Chris,

 

do you think that's possible to buy only the drawings and the lasercut bulkheads? Is it right, that the scale is 1/64?

If I look at your pictures I think that the design of your kit is a very good source to realize a very old dream of mine, a model of HMS Victory in her 1775-1785 appearance.

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Chris,

 

do you think that's possible to buy only the drawings and the lasercut bulkheads? Is it right, that the scale is 1/64?

If I look at your pictures I think that the design of your kit is a very good source to realize a very old dream of mine, a model of HMS Victory in her 1775-1785 appearance.

The plans will be available to buy separately when the kit is released, but not sure about selected laser cut sheets. The scale is 1:64.

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its been wonderful following the progress of this prototype, thank you Chris, and everyone who has helped you

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Great looking Victory there Chris. I just hope we all can do it justice once it becomes a kit.

Are you able to she'd any light on when we might see a 1/64 scale 74 gun vessel kitted? No offence to your magnificent Vanguard and even more attractive Bellona but I'm hanging out for a 64 th scale third rate that never seems to appear.

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Cheers :)

 

Will have to see how the Victory is received, regarding the size. I remember well the market research Amati undertook regarding sizes, and at the time Vanguard was considered the largest we'd want to go to please the largest percentage of model kit builders - any bigger then you get a lot of modellers say "Yes, it's very nice, but too big for my workspace". vanguard has sold very well, partly due, I'd wager to the size - it's not overly huge and yet big enough to add a lot of detail. I am sure that if I had done it in 64th scale, the sales would have been half of what they have been.

 

 Victory is different, as it has been been developed as Victory Models/Amati's Flagship model and something to aspire to - with plenty of scope for seasoned modeller's who want to add a lot more of their own detail, especially on the decks and in the cabins without having to chop away half of the interior just to get to that stage.

 

No model will ever be perfect and you will never be able to please everyone - people will always moan that it's either too big or too small (very rarely do we hear/read that the model is just the right size). All we can do is minimise the complaints by doing as much homework as possible, never think that you know it all (I certainly don't) and accept constructive criticism and implement when and where possible. The moment you think that you're infallible and believe yourself better than the rest is the moment you start heading downhill. Personally, I try out outdo the last design with every new kit, with ease of construction and even more detail a priority. The alternative is to keep plodding on with the same type of designs and ultimately die of abject boredom...

Brigg Fair, gjdale, Jaxboat and 6 others like this

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Thanks chris. Fair enough. Bring on both the victory and Bellona I say!

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