Martin W

She looks extraordinary, Ben! You're making good use of your extra time in the workshop.

Work has restarted on Pegasus, completing the upper planking and treenailing, then I have to machine the upper deck beams.
 
ben

Thanks Dan.  I appreciate you checking in and supplying help and information!  I'm sure I made the head rails and timbers harder to make than they should have been.  I did as you suggested, cut the timbers to match the rails.  Making the angled and sloped notches in the ends of the timbers was the hard part.  Getting those angles correct, at the right height to meet the headrail, and still making sure the other end of the timber was square and the right height on the stem was a challenge.  I think the version of timbers you posted would have been easier (except for the multiple rail aspect!)  I don't think I found the best technique in making mine this first time around.  Maybe I should have made card patterns, though being only two dimensional, they wouldn't have helped with all the devilish angles.  Or maybe I just need more practice at it.  As far as straddling the stem (or as I probably should be calling it, the knee of the head), It looks like some did and some didn't, depending on the various configurations, size of ships, time periods, etc.  David's FFM shows timbers that straddle for the Swan class, which are the ones I more or less tried to follow.
 
In any event, I have stuck a fork in them, and they are done.  Here they are removed, in order to reinstall the bowsprit--

 
They are in two pieces, with the timbers glued to the headrails, reminding me of chicken bones--

 
Here the bowsprit and gammoning have been re-attached, and the headrail assemblies glued.  I've scratched the finish under the cathead, for a support that needs to go there--

 
Fitting a card pattern--

 
The horizontal leg needed to be shortened, the pattern didn't account for the cat rope that threads through a hole inboard of the sheaves in the cathead--

 
Here it is installed.   What a relief to work on something not as frustrating as the head timbers!--

 
Here's a straight on bow shot--

 
Next order of business will be the channels and deadeyes, though at some point I should buckle down and work on the installation of the carronades.  The one I have done you see askew on the deck.
 
Ron

Hi Ron - 
 
Just checked in and found you struggling with the headrails.  Don't worry, we have all been there.  But you may be making more work than needed. 
The head timbers do not straddle the stem, but are separate pieces to each side.
Here is a page from zu Mondfeld's "Historic Ship Models".  You can see in the lower right that they are paired support pieces and do not connect to each other.
In this configuration you can make them separately to match what may be some slight variation in the headrails on either side.
I cut the head timbers to fit the headrails instead of trying to match the headrails to the head timbers.  I think this is an easier sequence.
That said, in this little area under the bowsprit they will be difficult for anyone to see, so you can keep the ones you have with little down side.
 
Hope that helps, and I apologize if it makes things worse.
 
Best of success.
 
Dan

Well done!  I'll raise a glass or two in your direction!
 
And I agree about Bellerophon's breast plate -- it should definitely be gold, or at least bronze.  And as I recall, there's something about a belt, though I can't remember the details.
 
Cheers,
 
Martin

Fantastic work!

All the channels are in place as well as those gun port lids which are between the chains. To improve the stability of the chains I tried to close the middle link with some tin-solder. It doesn't look perfect but seems more stable.
While constantly turning the hull for and back I came across our hero's sculpture every time and was more and more irritated by his brown breast armour. As higher Greek ratings anyway were entitled to a metal protection I replaced his leather by metal and even offered a heroic gold plating - means I painted his breast golden. It looks now more in line with the other colours, simpler and better.
 

mizzen channel
 
 

fore channel
 
 

our hero looks good in his new, shining armour
 
 
scuppers
 
Perhaps it's just another one of my obsessions but I try to install scuppers on all my models. They should show that ship's hulls are just fragile and leaking eggshells  and the water which comes in has to go out again.
Learning where to install scuppers was difficult. Finally I found a note in 'Bellona' from the AOTS series saying that there are 6 per side on the gun deck and 7 per side on the upper deck. However no plans where to install them were included. I think that those on the gun deck could be installed similar to those on frigates where I found some information and for the upper deck I will try to find logical positions. It seems that scuppers:
- are about evenly spaced in the central part of the deck
- are not below a gun port and therefore covered by a gun
- may be in the form of a slightly bigger pump dale near the mainmast
Scuppers on the upper deck should additionally not be above a gun port or a scupper of the gun deck.
The locations were chosen accordingly and the one near the mainmast on the gun deck is a pump dale and therefore slightly bigger.
I used again ferrules from the electric compartment with a diameter of 1,5mm respective 2mm for the pump dales . As they are all placed within the black wales I painted them black as well.
 

all scuppers except the foremost on each deck
 

main channel with scuppers
the second scupper from the left on the (lower) gun deck is a slightly larger pump dale
 
 
 
 
stand
 
Originally I planed to step Bellerophon onto 3 pilars mounted on an oak base, similar to Pegasus, Pickle and America.
I like those stands because the model almost seems to float on them. But while handling that rather heavy hull and thinking of the rather sof MDF which should hold the 3 screws which in turn would take all the strain I started to have doubts. Some destruction tests with  leftover MDF slid into the pilars' slot did nothing to dispel those doubts.
Reluctanly I accepted the kit's craddle as final support for the model. Painted with palisander stain it achieved a colour slightly darker than the aged copper but lighter and more elegant than the dull black shown on the kit's box.
 
 
Most of the still missing, fragile details on the hull will have to wait until the rigging is completed. I think the fuselage could be delared completed and it's time to start on the wings. Also this is the time for a celebration beer - I'll check if there's still  some Corona brew in the cellar.
 

ready to launch...

Work continues on the head timbers.
 
I've made the decision (at least for now) to omit the most forward tiny timber.  The second timber, which is one piece and straddles the stem is now my starting point.  Surprisingly, making some trims to the port headrail made the two headrails join more symmetrically than they had before, and there was no modification needed to that second (now the first) timber--

 
I worked on the remaining starboard timbers, and with some adjustments, I was able to keep them.  This is so much easier without the bowsprit in the way--

 
The port side is another matter entirely--
 
 
The last timber is way off, and the second may be close, but I'm going to redo it to have it close that gap between it and the starboard one.  The join won't be on the centerline, but it will be better than the current gap.  Another view showing the terrible unevenness of the port side timbers.  Here it looks like the second one is the worst offender, but the problems are pretty much shared between the second and third--

 
The second and third were redone, and it's getting close now--

 
Ron
 

Hi Martin,
 
Pins seem to be the preferred/recommended way to hold pieces, but when I have tried, as you said, the pieces slip and spin, or the pins fall out.  I do pin the aft end of the headrail in place quite often when I'm testing the fit of the timbers.   I have trouble getting the pin to stay in place without pushing it so hard that I'm afraid of breaking something.  I'm going to try small bits of PA glue on the timbers, that seems to work okay for me.
 
I made the difficult decision to remove the gammoning and bowsprit.  It really gets in the way.  I have also been thinking that my gammoning rope should have been just a little smaller diameter.  It was close to what I had researched it should be, maybe just a bit on the heavy side.  The next size I have is just a bit on the light side, but I think it will look more correct, and will also not crowd the head timbers as much.  My plan is to get the head timbers and rail to fit right, take them back off, reinstall the bowsprit and gammoning, and then permanently glue the rails and timbers.  We'll see how that goes.
 
So off comes the gammoning--

 
I optimistically carved the second timber with the decorative panels--

 
Glued the first two timbers, and the starboard half of the third--


 
And test fit the rail--

 
As you can see, I've got some problems.  It looks clear that the notch in the second timber is too low.  This may or not be so--it could be that the notch in the third is too high.  It had seemed that way when I was trying to do this before taking the gammoning and bowsprit off.   At this point I am not sure if it's worth using any of these timber pieces, or if they should all be redone.  More testing is in order.
 
Ron 
 

Hi Ron - When I was dry fitting my head timbers, I pinned them in place.  That gave me a modest success in judging how everything should come together, since pins slip and the pieces rotate around the pins.  But still I could get a general sense.  With your precision that might not be enough.
 
I'll be eager to see how you solve that problem.
 
Cheers,
 
Martin

Thanks Dan.  Ah, more tools to buy!  Does it ever end?
 
The head timbers have all been cut out, and shaped.  A handful that didn't make it are on the right.  I still have to carve the decorative panels on the lower faces.  That has been done on the smallest one, but you can't see it from this angle--

These have all been dry fit individually, and I would like to dry fit the whole assembly before I glue it all up, but I have no idea how to keep them all in place.  I may have to lightly glue, and then take them off and re-glue permanently when it's good to go.
 
Ron
 
 

Hi Ron - 
 
For cleaning out and smoothing miniature carvings, I have found nothing better than a good set of rifflers - curved needle files.
She is coming along very nicely.
 
Be well
 
Dan

Hi Peter -- Your choices for the paint scheme for Bellerophon seem appropriate, bronze would have been too dull.  And that weapon does look odd -- who knows.  Maybe it's supposed to be a kind of curved short sword.  As for the goat's head over the lion's, my guess is that the goat coming out of the back of the lion looked so ridiculous that Bellerophon cut it off to make the chimaera look more presentable.  And I have to envy that heroically narrow waist!
 
Cheers,
 
Martin

Thanks, Ron, I've just placed an order.
 
If I recall correctly, a wood supplier did once advertise on MSW.  I used to have their site bookmarked, but have never ordered anything from them.  If this works, then I'll be thrilled, because in my view there can never be too many wood suppliers.
 
Cheers,
 
Martin

Thanks Sam.  I will try that out next time I need to ebonize.
Good to know Martin.  I see your text got auto changed also--unless you did that on purpose!  Strange.
 
I am now working on the head timbers.   The farthest one forward is tiny.  I have a strong feeling that this piece wouldn't be anything like what I am trying to make, but I am putting it where it shows on the Chapelle plan.   There are four timbers shown, and if I keep that number, and the spacing, this is what I get.  It is very small on the draft.
 
On the right is one that I started, then quickly realized it wasn't even going to be close.  The one on the left, with the little triangular bit on top (that fits between where the rails come together) is the shape I get when I start to fit it with the head rails on the stem--

 
And in order to hold things together while I check the fit, I have temporarily glued the head timbers together--


 
An early fit shows that the timber, small as it is, is too tall, and I think the headrail is also too thick at this point--

 
So I sanded some off the headrails, and continued to work on the tiny timber piece.
 
The next fitting is getting closer, I need to work on the bottom of it, as it's not sliding down on the stem and sitting on the hair bracket properly--

 
Now it fits about the way it should--in it's messed up way.  If I were a real perfectionist, I would do the billet head again, a little taller (now that the bowsprit angle has been adjusted upward), so that timber wouldn't have to be so ridiculously tiny--

 
It's really small--

 
Now that that piece is done, I unglued the head rails from each other, and again temporarily glued them, this time flat, so I could carve the relief pattern in them.  The second timber is starting to be roughed out.  It will have a more typical shape--

 
Here are the head rails carved.  I am not an experienced carver, and the camera emphasizes all the imperfections.  I may try to smooth the inner area of the lower one, which is starboard, because that's the side that I was thinking to have more visible when I display the model.  I carved the port side second, so naturally it came out a little bit better--

 
Ron
 
 

Thanks, Ron, I've just placed an order.
 
If I recall correctly, a wood supplier did once advertise on MSW.  I used to have their site bookmarked, but have never ordered anything from them.  If this works, then I'll be thrilled, because in my view there can never be too many wood suppliers.
 
Cheers,
 
Martin

Ron,
So if you brushed a very thin coat of clear over both the bare wood and the masking at the same time that might stop the bleed. I am a fan of shellac, maybe a 1/2 pound or one pound cut in this instance.
Sam

Stuglo, the bowsprit and masts won't have the rope bands on this ship.  They are small enough to have been single pieces, not "made" masts built up of many pieces and thus needing the bands.  So no hiding!   Yes, "it's only a model" is a very irritating comment.
 
Sam, yes the iron gall mixture reacts to the tannin in the Quebracho bark extract, and to a lesser extent in the wood itself.  Both parts are watery, so they leach into the wood fibers, which causes the stain to bleed or "creep".   The masking doesn't seem to help much.
 
Martin, I got my Swiss Pear from Dave at the L u m b e r y a r d.  (I had to space that out because when I tried to post, something converted the word to "a wood supplier".  For whatever reason this site changed the text, I hope I am not violating some protocol by mentioning his business)  That was at least 7 years ago.  His website is still up, but I do not know if they are still in business. (I hope so, because I do not know where else to buy modelling wood stock now.) 
 
 
Ron

Hi Ron -- That's an interesting series of experiments on getting a sharp line on your blacking.  If the tung oil doesn't prevent the seepage, and if you're thinking of keeping the unblackened area natural and unstained, then why not use something blonde shellac, or varnish, or even polyurethane?  Maybe the blacking would seep under??
 
If you've already said this, forgive me, but where did you source your Swiss pear?  I've started shaping some masts & spars out of a hunk of maple I had, and decided they are much, much too light (pretty close to white).  I've always liked the mellowness of Swiss pear, and think it could be a nice match with the castelllo/boxwood I've used elsewhere, but haven't been able to find a source for modelling sized stock.
 
And let me join the chorus of voices singing praise for your craftsmanship.  Your joinery is beautifully tight and a pleasure to behold!
 
Cheers,
 
Martin

Hi Ron -- That's an interesting series of experiments on getting a sharp line on your blacking.  If the tung oil doesn't prevent the seepage, and if you're thinking of keeping the unblackened area natural and unstained, then why not use something blonde shellac, or varnish, or even polyurethane?  Maybe the blacking would seep under??
 
If you've already said this, forgive me, but where did you source your Swiss pear?  I've started shaping some masts & spars out of a hunk of maple I had, and decided they are much, much too light (pretty close to white).  I've always liked the mellowness of Swiss pear, and think it could be a nice match with the castelllo/boxwood I've used elsewhere, but haven't been able to find a source for modelling sized stock.
 
And let me join the chorus of voices singing praise for your craftsmanship.  Your joinery is beautifully tight and a pleasure to behold!
 
Cheers,
 
Martin

Hi Ron -- That's an interesting series of experiments on getting a sharp line on your blacking.  If the tung oil doesn't prevent the seepage, and if you're thinking of keeping the unblackened area natural and unstained, then why not use something blonde shellac, or varnish, or even polyurethane?  Maybe the blacking would seep under??
 
If you've already said this, forgive me, but where did you source your Swiss pear?  I've started shaping some masts & spars out of a hunk of maple I had, and decided they are much, much too light (pretty close to white).  I've always liked the mellowness of Swiss pear, and think it could be a nice match with the castelllo/boxwood I've used elsewhere, but haven't been able to find a source for modelling sized stock.
 
And let me join the chorus of voices singing praise for your craftsmanship.  Your joinery is beautifully tight and a pleasure to behold!
 
Cheers,
 
Martin

I know the feeling about lack of patience but you have done pretty well. I'm a 70year old ADD (my wife just says its childishness). May I suggest that the problem of colour run can be mitigated when you put on the bands (the proper word escapes me) of wrapped thread or simulated iron bands. Also attachment of various rigging may hide this. I hope this assuages some anxiety because I have been known to obsess about such things.( PS. count 10 before reacting to a nonbuilder saying its "only a model!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Thanks, stuglo.  Well, six years ago I was right here!  If only you had found the site earlier.  I have great admiration for all those who worked at this ship modeling pre-internet, or at least pre MSW, as you have done.  Though I've always loved ship models, I had never even considered trying to build one--I wouldn't have even known where to start.  Then one day I saw a friend's Canoe that he had built from a Midwest kit.  Pre-internet I suppose I probably would have learned from him where a brick and mortar store was to buy the kits, gotten some advice, etc., and probably have given up on the first try.   Instead, Google was here, and so am I.
 
The Coronavirus precautions have shut down my office today, so I was able to spend some time modeling.
 
Here's the gammoning work--

 
The bowsprit bitts have been glued in, and the bowsprit is now permanently attached.  I didn't glue the bowsprit to anything, but with the gammoning done it's not going anywhere.
 
No sooner did I do this than I regretted it.  Now I have to blacken the forward part of the bowsprit in place, and I'm worried about how my ebonizing is going to work where I have to have a clean line dividing the blackened from unblackened area.   
 
Here is my discarded earlier mast attempt, now being used for experimentation.  On the far right is my first try.  I used some masking tape (removed at this point), and blackened up to the edge of the masking tape.  Unlike paint, which lays on the surface, the ebonizing seeps into the wood.  That part of the photo is a little out of focus, but sure enough, the blackening seeped under the masking tape.  In the middle is an attempt where I am going to use the Tung Oil finish to perhaps seep into the wood and make a barrier.   The same thing on the left, only here I have added some masking tape so that when I take it off before staining, the Tung Oil will have formed a sharper line, with a slight "lip"--


 
Neither of those attempts worked.  The masked version was the worst.  Though curiously, the left side of that one, where I didn't care (and there was no Tung oil finish!), had almost no noticeable bleeding!!  The attempt on the right side of the photo was better as far as the clean line I was trying to achieve--very little bleeding (though it was also against the Tung Oil finish!), but I hadn't managed to paint a very straight line.  I wasn't sure what to learn from this!--

 
The staining doesn't go deep into the hard pear wood, so I tried filing off the seeped areas--

 
That worked okay, but unfortunately there was some re-seepage when I tried applying some Tung Oil finish which was about half diluted with mineral spirits.  [I am considering this after all has been done--maybe the Tung Oil finish, especially when diluted, has the effect of "pulling" the stain.  Though why didn't it do that on the right test?]
 
Thinking about how that back edge had turned out so well, made me try to duplicate it.  I thought it might have been because I didn't try to paint right up to the line with the second part of the blackening mixture, and it had just floated in, meaning that I hadn't brushed the second application to that line, it had just mixed with the "pool" of the first liquid in that area, and that it somehow didn't bleed.
 
Below on the flat wood, the right side is where I tried to duplicate the floating in of the blackening , but at the middle/left, where it mattered, one little blip still bled.  After this, on the left, I tried cutting a line with a knife to try and give a hard edge, and maybe limit the seepage, and again floated the second solution into the first, instead of painting with the brush up to the line.  This pretty much worked.  Then I tried covering this with the more viscous, undiluted, Tung Oil Finish to see if it would stay okay.  I didn't get additional seepage.  (That is also what is shown reapplied to the earlier attempt on the mast.)  I seemed to have some clues to a technique that might work. [More experiments were surely warranted, but sadly not carried out because truly I am more hasty and impulsive than scientific]--

 
My technique on the bowsprit is going to be: 1) Incise a line 2) Paint the first part of the blackening (the Quebracho extract liquid) up to the line 3) Float in the second part (the rusty iron solution), and hope for the best.  Undiluted Tung Oil finish after.   This all would have been so much easier if I hadn't attached the bowsprit first.  Here incising the line--

 
Here blackened--

 
 It worked pretty well, just that one little spot aft of the bees where I went astray with the application of the first part.  I used a knife to (mostly) shave that away--

 
It's not perfect, but it's done.  You can also notice where I had applied finish to the inner part of the bowsprit before I did the gammoning.  The blackened part now also has a coat of finish, but the rest of the bowsprit does not.  I still need to attach some things to it--

 
I have more of this partial blackening to do on the masts.  Hopefully I'll improve my technique.  Why not be done and just paint it?   Part of it is the challenge I guess, but I also don't want these black areas to look different, in color or sheen, than the ones I've already done on the hull. 
 
And all that, from the bitts to the bees, was so I could do the gammoning prior to finishing the headrails.  That's next.
 
Ron
 
 
 
 

Beautiful work but where were you when I needed you when I struggled with my Oneida 6 years ago and wasn't even aware of this site. You inspire and will help others

After looking at the bowsprit in place, I wasn't sure I had it at the right angle.  The cap seemed tilted forward a bit.  I pulled the bowsprit out and laid it against the Chapelle drawing, and the angle of the cap to the bowsprit was spot on, so it seemed the bowsprit needed to tilt up a little.  That little chock I put down at the deck needed to move up to the top of the bowsprit tenon, and the bowsprit tenon/heel needed to sit right down on the deck.
 
Here is the chock piece moved to just under the crosspiece--
 
 
And now test fit with the bowsprit--

 
You should be able to see a slight difference in the two following pictures.  The first is before I changed the angle, the second, after--


 
Next I did a trial gammoning, just to get an idea of how to do it, and also to mark on the bowsprit where the cleat should go--

 
The cleat was then cut out.  Following Glenn Greico's model of the brig Jefferson, there is only one wide cleat, on the top of the bowsprit--

 
The gammoning is of tarred rope, so I made a test, one piece stained black, and the other a dark brown.   It's a little hard to see the difference here, but I like the brown better, it's not as stark, a little warmer--
 
 
So, gammoning cleat attached, rope ready with the eye splice in the end--

 
Ron