Justin P.

On the contrary, thank you for making what started as a mere piece of curiosity into a larger conversation! In fact, a conversation that rarely occurs among the professionals involved in such work. In my experience, particularly in cultural heritage conservation, "art" and "other" have always been at odds, those in the "art" often being the artibiter of what is the "other." Being a book and paper conservator and not an "art on paper" conservator I am keenly aware of the line drawn between the archival and art worlds; the museum and the library worlds. But I will say that I disagree as to whether a ship model can be art or not. Expression or emotion, Im not sure... when I see bone models Im often moved in different ways then I am when I see yet another boxwood. When I see bow carvings on models (which are almost NEVER truly a model of something that existed) I can appreciate the expression. It is a style of expression bound by rules, but it is still expression. The time, the research, and intensity.... when I walk into a modelers house and see the devotion, the care - I am moved by that. How can this NOT be art? Ship models, to me, can be at home in both contexts. They are artifacts to be studied and are examples of rich craft tradition (some elaborately embellished - creatively) that goes back hundreds of years. Craft in my mind, is not so separate from art. Books and bookbinding are, in a way, very similar. They are made often within a complex set of rules at play and are intended for only one purpose. There are of course, as there are in the ship modeling circles, avenues for creative expression - so long as the context of the piece is wholly understood by both the creator and the viewer. These contexts can get confused, which is where I think much of the later curatorial conflict occurs. There are plenty of ship models, historic or otherwise, that are not strictly representations of an actual ship in complete detail. As well, there are numerous books, historic or otherwise, which are/were intended as creative expression through the tight rules of bookbinding more than they were as a vessel for some authors pontificating. I think value - as much as beauty - is in the eye of beholder. One mans boring old ship model is anothers entire chapter on 17th century modeling technique. One mans .25c garage sale book, is another mans 1st Edition. Make of it what you want.

Ab, did you know Davina at all? I met her at AIC a few years ago when she gave a talk on ship model conservation at the Rijks. I myself am a European trained rare book and medieval manuscript conservator in Seattle. Cheers!

Thought you all might enjoy... Behind the Scenes - Rijksmuseum (Cleaning a 17th Century Ship Model)

Ha.. yes, no offense taken! It was a very important detail to bring up! I did change my username, it seemed silly to me now as Ive met a few other members in person not to use my real name. I also noticed there is another member using a similar moniker and I didn't want to get confused myself. As I thought about it, "Maturin" and/or variations on the name might be quite popular in a ship-modeling community! Ive gone 5 years as a member and it only occurred to me recently, ha.

Thanks. Yes, definitely. I work with various adhesives in my day job, so Im quite aware of reactivation. Ive been wiping them down quite a bit before fitting and that has helped. There have a been a couple spots where the drying plank has lightly adhered at the frames where there was a touch of excess glue from putting down the plank before it but no other big problems related to this.

Yes, I came to this conclusion myself as well. I decide to head out and go ahead and remove the transom now rather than wait. I decided to remove it and thin it down rather than try to remove material from the stern post. To gain additional cushion I also cut a slot into the transom for the stern post to fit into. I did not have to reduce the overall dimensions of the transom as the existing planks seems to fit nicely. Ill remove a bit more material from that final frame forward of the transom to better ease that transition but not so much that Im getting an unsightly bend and try to be mindful of the need to narrow the planks some at the stern as I move along with planking. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, I think you are right overall. Looking at this pic it may be easier to see that I did remove some material from plank #3 and the subsequent planks in order to get a better fit: I think at this point Im going to leave the transom in place to help shape the planks but not glue them down. After planking overall, I think Ill do as usedtosail did where he ended up needing to remove the transom and cut a new one after planking. I think Ill then do as you suggest and remove the transom and shave a bit off the keel support to bring it forward a "tiny" bit. Hopefully this doesn't throw everything else out of wack.

Ok... so first thanks for encouragement. I took a deep breath and started the painstaking process of pulling the sheer and neighboring planks. I left the garboard and 2nd planks as I though those were going well enough. Using Acetone I was able to run a bead of solvent and the planks immediately released. I had to do some picking and scraping but otherwise they came off and the frames seemed none the worse for wear. I decide to set those aside and just start running planks from the keel. I decided to follow the advice from the above discussions and soaked the planks, bend them on an iron and then clamped them in place to dry. This worked extremely well when I came back to start shaping the fitting the plank. The plank gave very little resistance and fit so much more happily. Following this procedure I managed to four planks bent, sit and glued and am thus far quite happy with the results. Ive got a third set drying as I type this. There are some obvious issues that I think Ill chalk up as lessons, but otherwise its going well. Next session Ill turn my attention to resetting the sheer planks and work my way towards the shutter. Moving forward...

Looks great to me. Cant believe its your first!

Yes, and that's what Crazy mentioned too. I think bending them dry may have been problematic, as well I should start shaping them and letting them dry BEFORE glueing them. When I bent them dry though, they did take and hold a shape but it was far less gradual than what was observed bending the frames. I think some measure of redoing will be required for sure. Im using Gorilla Bond wood glue, do you think just isopropyl would be sufficient to release the planks? I think I may redo the sheer planks completely, but as the kit only provides so much Ill have to be VERY careful with removal. This is very good advice. Im writing that on my wall! I think if I can get the two sets of sheer planks off, then I will try this. It is a hard bend and I can tell looking at the thing that I maybe should have removed a bit more. I was a over-zealous with the bulkheads and now too conservative with the frames. Just running battens across the fairing just doesn't provide enough information... Thanks. This is encouraging.

I think this is probably some very good advice, as well it seems to be reinforced by others as well. I should take more time and soak, clamp and let dry before even considering any glue.

Hi All, Well the rewetting and twist method worked well enough for me to feel like I could move forward. The affected frames twisted back into more acceptable alignment with the building jig bulkheads and after a bit of waiting everything seemed ok after removing the clips. Then, as you do, I took off on a sailing trip of my own... After returning and getting back to to the build, I managed to fair the frames enough to feel confident in a start in on planking. I followed the instructions and went alternating between the garboard and sheer planks and managed four total in about a half-days worth of work. I was bending/twisting on a soldering iron with a plank bending attachment and doing this dry seemed to work find so long as I was careful. No scorching or burning was observed. I did however note that my addition of the thin planking over the transom did put me at risk of not having enough material as the planks are not quite long enough for comfort. It will work but their will not be much material and so little room for error. Ive also noticed that unfortunately my planks are quite tight at the stern and will require a bit something to get things to work properly. Right now I can bend the planks down to fit flush against the transom with my hand, but I cannot devise a suitable clamping arrangement to actually hold them... I may have to use a bit of CA which I was reticent to do. I absolutely abhor the stuff, but I suppose I don't have much of an option at this point. Ive also noticed that in a few places a certain frame just isn't meeting flush against the planking, and Im thinking that after the whole thing is complete I'll be able to flip the hull and reglue that frame down into and against the hull. In the last photo this is illustrated at the #4 bulkhead. Im wondering if I should have faired a bit more off the frames... its difficult for me to know. Im also wondering if the planks are meant to meet flush against the 1-3 bulkheads despite the fact that they aren't going to receive frames until later. As it is right now, my planks float a bit off the bulkheads but meet nicely at the rabbet. The above photo shows how horribly the planks are coming together at the transom... Im certain this is not how it is meant to be. I may be coming back to this after all the planking is done and mounting the transom last as others have done. Its very difficult for me right now to see this and not know what to do. I know Ive done something badly, I don't know exactly what that is, so my gut says order more parts, start over. But I also just want to carry on and see where it goes and how I might be able to recover from it. When this stuff happens do we just keep moving forward and try to recover later... how far along is too far along to back up and start all over? Its very frustrating given my past experiences and how discouraging it can be. In my professional life, the best lesson has always been "You are only ever as good as your ability to recover from your mistakes..." Good rule in ship modeling or will it compound and compound... I just don't know.

Looking forward to the build no matter how the log turns out... I too wonder the Syren shop longingly... a real exercise in will power for sure.

Im not sure I entirely understand what you mean by laying a plank and seeing if it straightens out. If it is what I imagine, that might be more fiddly than Im prepared to deal with at this point, ha! Im sort of leaning towards just fairing the frames and leaving the twist as is. They are fairly set in that twist, though its a hard to tell as Ive already spot glued them above the sheer tab so they don't move much as it is. Thinking about the amount of glue I used however lets me believe it wouldn't really be much to undo them. Rewetting them is an idea, I hadn't thought of that. I'll give that a try on one tonight and see if I can get anywhere. Thanks for the input.

Thanks Crazy. The note about fairing the frames is well taken. Though as I went back out to the shop last night I started wondering if I don't need to replace a couple as they seem to have taken on a rather interesting twist as they've dried. The frames are largely bent and set against the angle of the faired bulkheads so I were not completely square at the bow and stern anyhow, but in the below pictures there seems to be a degree of twist that I didn't impart during the bending process. You should be able to see how much they curl towards the bow in the above photos, and I admit that the curl is in the direction and along the intended curve of the planking but this seems a bit extreme. Below shows how they curl away from the faired edge of the bulkheads: The question is, should I just gently fair the ribs and not worry about it so much? Or should I go ahead and pull the offending frames and bend/install new ones? Im now starting to worry that I may have glued my keel in too early... the idea of pulling and replacing three to four frames now that they're glued into the keel stresses me out, especially when considering that all the rest are in place and darn near as perfect as I could expect I would achieve. Ugh.