Thistle17

If at first you fail to succeed try again...and again...and again!
 
After 2 weeks of on again off again fiddling with the transom framing I think I finally arrived. In no small measure the suggestions and even the "boot in the tail" of the 'master' were the incentives to confront my impediments and move forward. As previously mentioned one key element was the replacement of bulkhead #29. I had adjusted the slots so much of the original ones that I lost the ability for the frames to stay put during construction. So I remade them out of some mahogany that I had gotten from a pattern maker. It took a bit of deliberate hand sawing to get them precise but in the end they proved to be the solution to the loose fit problem of the frames. From that point on it was just a matter of hand tuning the stern upper fillers to get the correct curvature of the stern.
 
In retrospect the 'boot in the tail' also got me to reflect on my state of mind during the prior attempts. As cautioned so many times before slow and steady is the ingredient needed on this model. But I might add one needs to have the right frame of mind and concentration is a must. I just didn't have it before. I was so frutrated about a week earlier that I even ordered the Chapter 1 kit again in anticipation of starting over. It turned out it was not needed.
 
While I am at it I would like to comment on the Syren kit. To have the kit manufacturer design, build and create instructions in a progressive manner is not to be taken for granted. When I finished the stern framing construction I pushed back and mused that Chuck must have had me in mind when he produced the kit parts for this section. Who else adds 'spare" parts and template guides as they perceive that some folk will have trouble in this section?
 
So in the end I think I am where I should be on the transom. I do have some upper counter tuning to do but for the most part it all works. The transom covering piece fits nearly perfect. For me the key was to concentrate on getting the stern port distancing precise.
 
Joe
 
 
 

If at first you fail to succeed try again...and again...and again!
 
After 2 weeks of on again off again fiddling with the transom framing I think I finally arrived. In no small measure the suggestions and even the "boot in the tail" of the 'master' were the incentives to confront my impediments and move forward. As previously mentioned one key element was the replacement of bulkhead #29. I had adjusted the slots so much of the original ones that I lost the ability for the frames to stay put during construction. So I remade them out of some mahogany that I had gotten from a pattern maker. It took a bit of deliberate hand sawing to get them precise but in the end they proved to be the solution to the loose fit problem of the frames. From that point on it was just a matter of hand tuning the stern upper fillers to get the correct curvature of the stern.
 
In retrospect the 'boot in the tail' also got me to reflect on my state of mind during the prior attempts. As cautioned so many times before slow and steady is the ingredient needed on this model. But I might add one needs to have the right frame of mind and concentration is a must. I just didn't have it before. I was so frutrated about a week earlier that I even ordered the Chapter 1 kit again in anticipation of starting over. It turned out it was not needed.
 
While I am at it I would like to comment on the Syren kit. To have the kit manufacturer design, build and create instructions in a progressive manner is not to be taken for granted. When I finished the stern framing construction I pushed back and mused that Chuck must have had me in mind when he produced the kit parts for this section. Who else adds 'spare" parts and template guides as they perceive that some folk will have trouble in this section?
 
So in the end I think I am where I should be on the transom. I do have some upper counter tuning to do but for the most part it all works. The transom covering piece fits nearly perfect. For me the key was to concentrate on getting the stern port distancing precise.
 
Joe
 
 
 

If at first you fail to succeed try again...and again...and again!
 
After 2 weeks of on again off again fiddling with the transom framing I think I finally arrived. In no small measure the suggestions and even the "boot in the tail" of the 'master' were the incentives to confront my impediments and move forward. As previously mentioned one key element was the replacement of bulkhead #29. I had adjusted the slots so much of the original ones that I lost the ability for the frames to stay put during construction. So I remade them out of some mahogany that I had gotten from a pattern maker. It took a bit of deliberate hand sawing to get them precise but in the end they proved to be the solution to the loose fit problem of the frames. From that point on it was just a matter of hand tuning the stern upper fillers to get the correct curvature of the stern.
 
In retrospect the 'boot in the tail' also got me to reflect on my state of mind during the prior attempts. As cautioned so many times before slow and steady is the ingredient needed on this model. But I might add one needs to have the right frame of mind and concentration is a must. I just didn't have it before. I was so frutrated about a week earlier that I even ordered the Chapter 1 kit again in anticipation of starting over. It turned out it was not needed.
 
While I am at it I would like to comment on the Syren kit. To have the kit manufacturer design, build and create instructions in a progressive manner is not to be taken for granted. When I finished the stern framing construction I pushed back and mused that Chuck must have had me in mind when he produced the kit parts for this section. Who else adds 'spare" parts and template guides as they perceive that some folk will have trouble in this section?
 
So in the end I think I am where I should be on the transom. I do have some upper counter tuning to do but for the most part it all works. The transom covering piece fits nearly perfect. For me the key was to concentrate on getting the stern port distancing precise.
 
Joe
 
 
 

If at first you fail to succeed try again...and again...and again!
 
After 2 weeks of on again off again fiddling with the transom framing I think I finally arrived. In no small measure the suggestions and even the "boot in the tail" of the 'master' were the incentives to confront my impediments and move forward. As previously mentioned one key element was the replacement of bulkhead #29. I had adjusted the slots so much of the original ones that I lost the ability for the frames to stay put during construction. So I remade them out of some mahogany that I had gotten from a pattern maker. It took a bit of deliberate hand sawing to get them precise but in the end they proved to be the solution to the loose fit problem of the frames. From that point on it was just a matter of hand tuning the stern upper fillers to get the correct curvature of the stern.
 
In retrospect the 'boot in the tail' also got me to reflect on my state of mind during the prior attempts. As cautioned so many times before slow and steady is the ingredient needed on this model. But I might add one needs to have the right frame of mind and concentration is a must. I just didn't have it before. I was so frutrated about a week earlier that I even ordered the Chapter 1 kit again in anticipation of starting over. It turned out it was not needed.
 
While I am at it I would like to comment on the Syren kit. To have the kit manufacturer design, build and create instructions in a progressive manner is not to be taken for granted. When I finished the stern framing construction I pushed back and mused that Chuck must have had me in mind when he produced the kit parts for this section. Who else adds 'spare" parts and template guides as they perceive that some folk will have trouble in this section?
 
So in the end I think I am where I should be on the transom. I do have some upper counter tuning to do but for the most part it all works. The transom covering piece fits nearly perfect. For me the key was to concentrate on getting the stern port distancing precise.
 
Joe
 
 
 

If at first you fail to succeed try again...and again...and again!
 
After 2 weeks of on again off again fiddling with the transom framing I think I finally arrived. In no small measure the suggestions and even the "boot in the tail" of the 'master' were the incentives to confront my impediments and move forward. As previously mentioned one key element was the replacement of bulkhead #29. I had adjusted the slots so much of the original ones that I lost the ability for the frames to stay put during construction. So I remade them out of some mahogany that I had gotten from a pattern maker. It took a bit of deliberate hand sawing to get them precise but in the end they proved to be the solution to the loose fit problem of the frames. From that point on it was just a matter of hand tuning the stern upper fillers to get the correct curvature of the stern.
 
In retrospect the 'boot in the tail' also got me to reflect on my state of mind during the prior attempts. As cautioned so many times before slow and steady is the ingredient needed on this model. But I might add one needs to have the right frame of mind and concentration is a must. I just didn't have it before. I was so frutrated about a week earlier that I even ordered the Chapter 1 kit again in anticipation of starting over. It turned out it was not needed.
 
While I am at it I would like to comment on the Syren kit. To have the kit manufacturer design, build and create instructions in a progressive manner is not to be taken for granted. When I finished the stern framing construction I pushed back and mused that Chuck must have had me in mind when he produced the kit parts for this section. Who else adds 'spare" parts and template guides as they perceive that some folk will have trouble in this section?
 
So in the end I think I am where I should be on the transom. I do have some upper counter tuning to do but for the most part it all works. The transom covering piece fits nearly perfect. For me the key was to concentrate on getting the stern port distancing precise.
 
Joe
 
 
 

If at first you fail to succeed try again...and again...and again!
 
After 2 weeks of on again off again fiddling with the transom framing I think I finally arrived. In no small measure the suggestions and even the "boot in the tail" of the 'master' were the incentives to confront my impediments and move forward. As previously mentioned one key element was the replacement of bulkhead #29. I had adjusted the slots so much of the original ones that I lost the ability for the frames to stay put during construction. So I remade them out of some mahogany that I had gotten from a pattern maker. It took a bit of deliberate hand sawing to get them precise but in the end they proved to be the solution to the loose fit problem of the frames. From that point on it was just a matter of hand tuning the stern upper fillers to get the correct curvature of the stern.
 
In retrospect the 'boot in the tail' also got me to reflect on my state of mind during the prior attempts. As cautioned so many times before slow and steady is the ingredient needed on this model. But I might add one needs to have the right frame of mind and concentration is a must. I just didn't have it before. I was so frutrated about a week earlier that I even ordered the Chapter 1 kit again in anticipation of starting over. It turned out it was not needed.
 
While I am at it I would like to comment on the Syren kit. To have the kit manufacturer design, build and create instructions in a progressive manner is not to be taken for granted. When I finished the stern framing construction I pushed back and mused that Chuck must have had me in mind when he produced the kit parts for this section. Who else adds 'spare" parts and template guides as they perceive that some folk will have trouble in this section?
 
So in the end I think I am where I should be on the transom. I do have some upper counter tuning to do but for the most part it all works. The transom covering piece fits nearly perfect. For me the key was to concentrate on getting the stern port distancing precise.
 
Joe
 
 
 

If at first you fail to succeed try again...and again...and again!
 
After 2 weeks of on again off again fiddling with the transom framing I think I finally arrived. In no small measure the suggestions and even the "boot in the tail" of the 'master' were the incentives to confront my impediments and move forward. As previously mentioned one key element was the replacement of bulkhead #29. I had adjusted the slots so much of the original ones that I lost the ability for the frames to stay put during construction. So I remade them out of some mahogany that I had gotten from a pattern maker. It took a bit of deliberate hand sawing to get them precise but in the end they proved to be the solution to the loose fit problem of the frames. From that point on it was just a matter of hand tuning the stern upper fillers to get the correct curvature of the stern.
 
In retrospect the 'boot in the tail' also got me to reflect on my state of mind during the prior attempts. As cautioned so many times before slow and steady is the ingredient needed on this model. But I might add one needs to have the right frame of mind and concentration is a must. I just didn't have it before. I was so frutrated about a week earlier that I even ordered the Chapter 1 kit again in anticipation of starting over. It turned out it was not needed.
 
While I am at it I would like to comment on the Syren kit. To have the kit manufacturer design, build and create instructions in a progressive manner is not to be taken for granted. When I finished the stern framing construction I pushed back and mused that Chuck must have had me in mind when he produced the kit parts for this section. Who else adds 'spare" parts and template guides as they perceive that some folk will have trouble in this section?
 
So in the end I think I am where I should be on the transom. I do have some upper counter tuning to do but for the most part it all works. The transom covering piece fits nearly perfect. For me the key was to concentrate on getting the stern port distancing precise.
 
Joe
 
 
 

If at first you fail to succeed try again...and again...and again!
 
After 2 weeks of on again off again fiddling with the transom framing I think I finally arrived. In no small measure the suggestions and even the "boot in the tail" of the 'master' were the incentives to confront my impediments and move forward. As previously mentioned one key element was the replacement of bulkhead #29. I had adjusted the slots so much of the original ones that I lost the ability for the frames to stay put during construction. So I remade them out of some mahogany that I had gotten from a pattern maker. It took a bit of deliberate hand sawing to get them precise but in the end they proved to be the solution to the loose fit problem of the frames. From that point on it was just a matter of hand tuning the stern upper fillers to get the correct curvature of the stern.
 
In retrospect the 'boot in the tail' also got me to reflect on my state of mind during the prior attempts. As cautioned so many times before slow and steady is the ingredient needed on this model. But I might add one needs to have the right frame of mind and concentration is a must. I just didn't have it before. I was so frutrated about a week earlier that I even ordered the Chapter 1 kit again in anticipation of starting over. It turned out it was not needed.
 
While I am at it I would like to comment on the Syren kit. To have the kit manufacturer design, build and create instructions in a progressive manner is not to be taken for granted. When I finished the stern framing construction I pushed back and mused that Chuck must have had me in mind when he produced the kit parts for this section. Who else adds 'spare" parts and template guides as they perceive that some folk will have trouble in this section?
 
So in the end I think I am where I should be on the transom. I do have some upper counter tuning to do but for the most part it all works. The transom covering piece fits nearly perfect. For me the key was to concentrate on getting the stern port distancing precise.
 
Joe
 
 
 

Thanks Chuck. It seems to me I am loosing some concentration in addition to being too cautious and over thinking things as you say.
 
Believe me I am reading the monographs, especially yours.
 
I came back to the model after I'd walked away for an hour and figured it out. Of course when I trim (sand) back the 'C' frames they will give me the relief I need and when I bevel and fit the fillers all should come out well. I have come to be so sensitive to the fit of the elements since if not correct it will be a disaster with the construction of the quarter galleys.
 
What I ended up doing to get the transom frames to have the right fit and sit well was to remove bulkhead 29 and replace them with hand made new ones. That cured almost all the problems with frames "'A' and 'B' as they were too sloppy a fit with all my prior tunning.
 
Joe 
 
 

Thanks Chuck. It seems to me I am loosing some concentration in addition to being too cautious and over thinking things as you say.
 
Believe me I am reading the monographs, especially yours.
 
I came back to the model after I'd walked away for an hour and figured it out. Of course when I trim (sand) back the 'C' frames they will give me the relief I need and when I bevel and fit the fillers all should come out well. I have come to be so sensitive to the fit of the elements since if not correct it will be a disaster with the construction of the quarter galleys.
 
What I ended up doing to get the transom frames to have the right fit and sit well was to remove bulkhead 29 and replace them with hand made new ones. That cured almost all the problems with frames "'A' and 'B' as they were too sloppy a fit with all my prior tunning.
 
Joe 
 
 

Thanks Chuck. It seems to me I am loosing some concentration in addition to being too cautious and over thinking things as you say.
 
Believe me I am reading the monographs, especially yours.
 
I came back to the model after I'd walked away for an hour and figured it out. Of course when I trim (sand) back the 'C' frames they will give me the relief I need and when I bevel and fit the fillers all should come out well. I have come to be so sensitive to the fit of the elements since if not correct it will be a disaster with the construction of the quarter galleys.
 
What I ended up doing to get the transom frames to have the right fit and sit well was to remove bulkhead 29 and replace them with hand made new ones. That cured almost all the problems with frames "'A' and 'B' as they were too sloppy a fit with all my prior tunning.
 
Joe 
 
 

One word describes your work....elegant!
 
Joe

One word describes your work....elegant!
 
Joe

Dilgence and determination results in a task well done. Just a remarkable beauty Mike! May I ask what are you using to photograph your work?
Joe

Thank you all for your ideas and thoughts. I intend to employ them in the next round. I ordered the kit parts this AM and have patterns cut for potential replacement bulkheads should I need to go that far. I saw  a method on the Tally Ho restoration (YouTube) involving the precise layout of critical opening cutouts of covering boards on her deck that might be something worth trying out as a jig. So Edward we will see.
Joe

Thank you all for your ideas and thoughts. I intend to employ them in the next round. I ordered the kit parts this AM and have patterns cut for potential replacement bulkheads should I need to go that far. I saw  a method on the Tally Ho restoration (YouTube) involving the precise layout of critical opening cutouts of covering boards on her deck that might be something worth trying out as a jig. So Edward we will see.
Joe

As I continue the fairing of the hull I spent some time on the bow on the starbaord side and was pleasantly surprised at how it turned out. Methodology was the key for me and the batten trials has served me well. I did extend my bow filler layout method to the port side in the following manner.
 
Before I permantly glued in the starbaord elements I ensured that the taper on both the exposed and backside profile of the port side matched the starboard elements. I then extended the perpendiculars I had inscribed on the starbaord topside element to bulkhead 'W' on the port side. Then using the ;story pole' shown clamped to the strabaord side I marked the taper that would 'dial me in' on port side and made the tick marks shown. In theory this will give me a near identical bow geometry to plank.
 
To my way of thinking this simple method nudges me away from the 'eye balling' I have done in the past that has not always turned out for me.
 
Joe

Back to fairing the hull after my stumbles with the transom frame(s) alignment. I went back to concentrating on the bow bulkheads and fillers. I find this area particularily fussy to work as one is trying to shape the bow mostly through an itterative trial fit process. The battens come in handy for this stage so they must not be neglected in the shaping effort. Observing how the batten lays against the fillers and the first two bulkheads is always a clue to the trueness of shaping.
 
To make things just a bit more complicated the 'W' bulkhead has a mild serpentine curve at its base so that the fillers have to mimic that ever so slightly. To give myself a better chance that all will come out in the end I do not glue the fillers (BF 1 - 3) in as they are so awkward to shape whilst on the model. I start with the bulkhead shaping first ( W and U ). I shape them closely to thier prpoper bevel. In preparation for the next step. I glue fillers, BF 3 & 2 together making sure they align correctly. I then clamp that assembly to the strong back and trace the bottom  and rear face of the assembly against the bevel edge of bulkhead 'W". Iteratively I sand via a Dremel with a fine drum sander attached until I get close to the desired surface contours. The process is repeated until I feel I have achieved the desired shaping. I compare my results to some of the helpful photos of Chuck's build as shown in the attachment. In that photo you may notice that I drew in a contour line on the fillers just to get an idea of the shaping trajectory. Ultimately the assembled elements are finished sanded with blocked up linear sanding.
 
This next step is something I learned the hard way in planking Cheerful. On the semi finished starboard filler on the right I drew perpendicular lines as replication markers for its port mate. On the starboard element I drew in a similar contour line as shown on the photo. Using the perpendicular intersects of the starboard side I marked off the port side and drew in the contour shape with a french curve. This produces a very symmetrical bow framing for planking.
 
Now the photo fillers appear a bit wider at the waist area. So as a sanity check I measured Chuck's photo dimensions of the photo filler waist to the distance of bulkhead 'W" from the strong back to its tapered edge and compared it to my contoured filler. I came up with a simple ratio of filler waist width to bulkhead waist width. They turn out to be almost dead on. I am thinking that the appearance difference is the angle and optics of the photo taken.
 
At this point I am second guessing myself and if I am not happy with the results I can always make more fillers and restart the process!!!!!!!!!
 
Joe

The pressure has finally built to the point where I cannot ignore this model any longer. I took it down to start some of the rudimetary work such as fairing the hull. Although I treated the prior work with respect I did have a number of the mid section uprights crack since last year. I have repaired those but i still find those upper elements quite weak and are sure to break during fairing.
 
One advantage of a late start is one gets to see how others have worked through their encounters. I hitch hiked on Stunt Flyer's method albeit with my own rendition shown below. I was careful not to force any of the bulkhead uprights out of their rest position as I expected they would spring back when the 1/16 X 1/8 strapping was removed later on. If needed I added a suitable scrap to keep them in their natural position. The end result is a pretty strudy upper frame area that should take sanding well. The bow and stern areas will have to be dealt with in a similar manner but the scrap build out will be a bit more elaborate.
 
 

A vice I will admit to is tools. I find myself asking "do I really need another tool" and often the answer is yes "I guess". Anyway for what it is worth I bought this Woodpeckers pocket square which is primarily intended to gauge the trueness of the business end of woodworking chisels. Obviously it is one of those tools one uses in the workshop less than often so it has wandered into my modeling tool chest. I have found it to be just the right size for a number of build applications. Here is another I found. I am installing the bulkheads from the middle out to stem and stern so it just requires the removal of the nearest neighbor to fit. The reliefs in each arm of the square allow me to use some of the clamps with lesser throat and it does wonders to square up the bulkhead while glue dries. Albeit a bit pricey it seems to do the job.
Joe

Another milestone of sorts (at least for me given all the other things swirling around in my life). All of the bulkheads have been dry fitted on the former. It did take more fine tuning of the bulkhead slots as they were a bit undersized and I was looking for a slip fit. As I have learned in the past if this fit is not deliberate the bulkheads tend to twist about the keel center line which in turn leads to further difficulties when installing the gun port timbers.
 
In addition I would comment on the building board. I was intrigued by a group members approach to the build platform. I adopted Rusty J's method of the build board as I felt it served my needs better. I rebuilt the right angle supports a bit longer so that they could be clamped with my clamp stock. These supports are only used on the starboard side and the clamps ensure the assembly verticality (they needed some shim build out to achieve this). Thanks for the tip Rusty!
 
As I glue these in, starting amid ships, I will turn my attention back to Cheerful inboard/deck detail while the glue dries. This model has had little attention since the Spring and is begging for forward movement.
 
I will now proceed to where many of you have already gone. You all are an inspiration to me.
Joe

Finally I am have been able to start this project with the focus and attention it is going to need. If you follow the scratch build forums I am also involved in building the Viet Nam era River Patrol Boat for the museum where we hold meetings. That project even with good drawings and photos has no guidance other than our combined sense of how to build it. I liken it to building "in the air" as one might build a tree house. In contrast this project is exacting and so well documented that one has to respect each and every step of the build. I did not purchase the bulkhead sub kit but started from the raw Lite ply. I assembled the former sections on a 1/2 plate glass that is longer than the former full length to ensure I got the truest assembly. Because of the quality of the ply it still had a slight cup. The bow section even had a bit of cup at its upper reach hence the "strong-back" temporarily clamped  across the body. This turned out to be a convenient location to add a clamp across the midsection of the stem which was sanded to conform as best as I could get it. Still I could perceive a very slight separation once fitted to the former. And as most of you know PVA glue is strongest when the wood surfaces are in good contact.
 
Joe

As we spoke at the NE Conference, this may be my last model build. It is difficult to say that but I have to be realistic about where I am in life. I can't imagine a more elegant subject to tackle.
 
As you requested Chuck, I enter the "waters" and make a commitment to build a Winchelsea of cedar and will want to build it from your modular or mini kit offerings starting with the "starter" installment. Given the human factors a scratch version is not practical for me.
 
Joe

"DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!". As one might have guessed my idea of assenbly of the transom in the manner I described while not a disaster was not a complete success. It actually fit the bulkhead slots but as I moved outward from the mid transom frames, especially the 'C' transom frames, it became an assembly in tension.
 
So with 'hat in hand' I reordered Chapter 1 parts again and will start the process over.
 
I have found this segement quite a challenge as there are so many ways that this can go wrong. Am I the only one who has tripped up on this?
 
Joe
 
 
 

Chuck I understand your doubt. I share it. I did forget to mention that I am tapering the upper stern frame fillers as the on line instructions relate and I am using the guides (1 through 5) to help in the contouring. As I proceed I am taking the partial assembly to the model and testing the fit. So far with one of the 'B' frames correcctly postioned it fits and fits comfortably. As we have discussed my start up has been unconventional and I am paying for that. It was a hard lesson learned that will not be repeated. My escape will have to be some level of do over if it is a disaster.
Joe