henry x

Yes cannon barrels along with blocks and other things you will see

Jan That is some beautiful reply and I have read it over and over. The reason I bought Hoeckels book was to try and find out info nothing else but from your reply I can now see that's a waste of money the book is still in the post when It will arrive I don't know. If I may refer you #22 where I said I would like to restore it as it once was to do anything else would be wrong (in my eyes)you must respect the builder and there in Lie's the problem. When you mention Amati' s drawings, I have only seen the drawing of von Bremen and pictures of the same and that does not equate to what I am holding in my hand the builder must have had a plan to follow if you are now saying the builder invented that then I must say I do not agree. What i have already said is construction wise prince of orange and von Bremen are exactly the same but the deck furnishings and the plaque are not the same and I don't think the builder invented the plaque. If only a drawing of Amati's Prince of Orange could be found that would solve all the problems. If in the end I am forced to build what I think is correct would be a pity unless hopefully something turns up. What i will say is there are people out there hiding behind the woodwork who will say when I am finished you should have done or this or that and so on always happens. What I have not yet said is the nails on this build are tapered from the head to a needle point something I have not seen in my life time here in the UK regarding a model, maybe you had in the continent and that may also help to date it. I think why people hide in the woodwork is they fear the taxman will see they are still alive. Keith my order has been shipped and the people have very nice. Henry x .

Roger thanks for that but remember we a not talking about historical accurate ship. The model above shows 3 areas VERY similar to the PoO which makes me think the front end will also be very similar but think the PoO has more quality and Hoeckel's book not yet arrived maybe just maybe has the answer,also interesting where did the plans come from. Keith have sent email to the dealer but will phone him/her later (need to wait till the wife go's out) Henry x

Keith. A very good point will look into that tomorrow . What put me off from some dealers was when you get to the check out is filling out the pay form its all the questions sometimes they ask what did you have for your dinner Amati Italy 5 euros for this only if you spend 20 euros then the bill becomes 30 odd euros and then postage what a con. Glad to see Cornwall have Amati parts will defenately check it out tomorrow. Many thanks for that. Henry x

Restoration wise i think you will see some progress i started on the cannon but that really took some time i think i said already 2 of the barrel are missing and they are actually held on to the carriage by very fine sand paper which i said earlier was a veneer strip, waiting for rigging thread to arrive and i may need to order some blocks, i will make a mould for the cannon barrels and just use pewter although i do have a proper furnace in my greenhouse of all places but i do have camping stoves which i will use for pewter it should melt that. At the moment i could refit the fire buckets but before all that i'm going to up end it one last time to finish of the hull there are a couple of small lumps and bumps i will attend to you don't know they are but i do, so if the jobs worth doing it' worth doing right. So that's about it for now the next week or so is going to be slow.

Well let me try to explain again what i'm trying to do is find out if i can what goes in front of the windlass and how was the bowsprit is attached on this model which i will now call the PoO. and i would like to get it correct. Now let's start with what we do know there were 2 post fixed to the deck and the bowsprit ( now BS )was glued to the hull between the gunwale and the stem, ref #91 you will see 2 posts on the drawing and the BS is attached using a metal strap nearly but i think the strap and the way the BS goes under the rail rules it out . I like to think what Gregory posted #80 that the BS was fixed to the plank in the manner shown and of coarse a similar fixing is shown in the EEU WS Statenjacht but there are so many Statenjachts it' finding the correct one. Now Jan look deeply and see if my thinking is correct the model i'm about to post shows the mid cabin and i know it's not the correct name but it is very similar to the PoO, the fire buckets and the stern apart from its extremities is the same so my thinking is the deck fwd of the windlass might also have been copied where it shows 3 posts if that was replaced by the column holding the ships bell on the PoO. and the BS fixing similar to the EEU WS Statenjacht maybe that is the answer. What do you think. Henry x P.S Have bought the book Risse von Schiffe by Rolf Hoeckel maybe it might provide some more info.

Hi all, Joined another forum to try and get more info but I have myself have found more info will post some Pict's tomorrow. Restoration I think coming along not too bad again will post some Pict's tomorrow. I think amateur will be really interested seeing how he was the one that brought it to out attention. Henry x

Well all a bit disappointed with reply's apart from Keith, Gregory and a couple others yes i know there are a lot of kit's out there regarding this type of model surely someone must have seen this model before. Nearest i have come so far is the yacht D.oro ( Brandenburg yacht ) which clearly shows 2 post's like this one ( one's on the model are 1" apart ) but i'm not too happy with the way the bowsprit is fixed although Corel say the their models are historically accurate i'm not interested in that i only want to try and find out how THIS model was made. There is of course a model of the prins von oranje in the NMM. and i would really love to see a photo of how the real bowsprit was attached but i know that's not going to happen. Will plod on. Henry x

Just a repeat of above Beautiful Henry x

Had a look around the net and found these drawings of von Bremen made by a Chinese company but think sold by Amati maybe built under licence but not 100% sure. You will see there is 2 posts involved along with a cross rail but the spacing differs from mine but i think i could use something like it. The remaining photo's show my little dilemma just using a spill baton to illustrate, from what i gather the bowsprit should be 5mm dia x 194mm but unless i cut it away like i show in the spill it will hide the holes in the stem required for rigging or would not be the correct angle. Hope you can follow the photo's, it would be nice if some of you who must have a model of the von Bremen post a pic of yours i cannot be the only one in the world who owns this model. Will now get on with the painting. Henry x

Gregory Many thanks for posting that there is space but the plank would not fit under the gunwale there is certainly 2 posts missing i pictured something like a notice board 2 posts with a board going across having a hole in it to fit the bowsprit and there is something else missing that so far no one has noticed but will come to that in due time. Now just a bit of light relief the MOD. can remove the pics if he likes years ago i was a member of a boat club and i built a boat French sardinier from MRB Gazelle des sables fitted it with radio and first time out it bumped into a fellow members boat which sank needless to say i never took it back i'm quite sure some of you will remember these Cats. Henry x

Small update have picked out some old glue from the stem there does appear to a small hole poss a screw so i stand corrected. Painted bottom of hull with acrylic but not really very nice will treat myself to some enamel. Henry x

Old photo

Let me start this morning by saying it is only just now that i myself have come to realise what i have stumbled across it may well be i am the only person still alive in THIS forum who remembers this model, i sincerely hope that my statement is not true. Getting back to the model i think this one goes back pre WW11 maybe even to 20's or 30's when i hopefully get to the end for those really interested we might have a discussion. Keith your model is not the same the part in the middle of the deck i will call a cabin but i know that is not the correct name it differs, the windlass also differs and so on the bowsprit is attached by screws on mine you will see there are no holes in the stem maybe yours is a latter model don't know i'm only a layman. Gregory the last model you show yes really beautiful and i know it's not the same as i have but the attachment of the bowsprit shown is the only plausible one so far i myself thought the plank was vertical but i can now see it's horizontal. Really need to try and get to the bottom of this because i am not far away.

Gentlemen first let me say to all of you many thanks for me this is what a forum should be all about forgive me if get replies out of sequence. Firstly i don't have the bowsprit only bit where the flag pole goes. Will post Picts tomorrow and you will see what's what, no point in me trying to name anything because half the things I don't know the name of I just like to build things. What is said about the crack in the hull maybe an old pic what I did was to edge glue the planks and hold them in place using thick rubber bands and a block of wood to force the plank in position and looks like it worked regarding any bare wood I was going to paint them with PVA but the white paint must have about a thousand coats so I thought wood filler a better bet just like painting a car using a paint filler same idea. The pics you all posted really gives me some idea but remember this one is vintage and like real ships may have evolved through the years also but nevertheless very helpful, I think the one with the ship bell same as mine shows I think kit makers just change certain items and gave the same kit a different name. Another interesting point is the canon mine all the wheels are the same size yours are different sizes mine also tethered look the old photo's that's the kind of small detail I've tried to point out above but we are still a million miles away from that yet and no doubt I'll pester you all again. The barrels are held into the carriages by a thin veneer strip on top or that's what it should be. Regards Henry x

Gregory Many thanks for your kind offer I think that will help, on your model just fwd of the windlass the column has Mary's head on it, on this model it has the ship's bell and just fwd of that again in my model there was two glue spots on the deck which I think held square posts with a thick plank in between the rear attachment for the bowsprit can't remember but might be similar to that of the Mary. Have had a look on the Amati site and something's do jog my memory will go back and see if they have an online catalogue. Thanks again Henry x

Just a few more pics that might interest some of you the second photo to some Dutchmen (the name plate ) is worth a million dollars the last two the figurehead on the stem the last one you will see a glue spot on the stem i think there was a bracket of some sort holding the bowsprit hoping one of you out there can help. If there is still doubters out there let me say this is not a rare kit this is a VERY RARE KIT. seems the picts have come out in the wrong order Henry x

I think cleaning of the inside really now quite clean had to make an extra lift by the bucket men tons of dirt came off. I scraped it just as Roger said using one of my Exacto sets just changing blades now and again to give me better access not 100% but i think acceptable. Now here's what i'm up against the hull at the bow some nasty splits have no option but to use filler the other planks that were sprung open a bit have manage to glue and reset them. When i complete that i'll go back inside and start to re-assemble. Both side affected.

Keith I think your right I'll just leave it will clean as best I can. Henry x

Keith Nice to see some people still have a sense of humor yes q-tips over here they are the same, the old container are called Johnson cotton buds the new one's have gone upmarket and are now called Johnson & Johnson baby wipes but I thought there are bit small for that, same product. The stand is now made just typical bog standard if you see the early photos in one you will see two wood screws screwed into the keel maybe it had brass uprights and a wood plinth this one fits quite well but only temp. Have tried to set a couple of planks back in place at bottom of the hull they are edge glued something I always did will see what they look like tomorrow. Roger Yes that's what I am doing scraping, the rear cabin fwd bulkhead has come loose so I have taken it out which gives me more access to the floor in that area maybe due to my mishandling don't know . Now that you have added the word Poplar I now understand just could not see a tree or bush called Tulip many thanks. Now to anyone interested, the cleaning of the hull inside above the deck is a bit problematic I was thinking of removing some the white parts, false frames not all for better access then after cleaning I can put them back, measure the distance apart first otherwise I will have to get my small 1/8" chisel out which you can all make from your old worn needle files. What are your thoughts. Henry x

Keith Really glad you have posted you have really stopped me regarding sanding I was going to sand it down to the bare wood and then varnish it. The dark area's you see are remnants of old varnish I am now thinking of taking it down to the lighter area's you see and leaving it at that I.e no varnish, The floor in front of the rear cabin and the steps need more cleaning don't know what people mean when they say q-tips hear in the U.K I'm using cotton buds maybe the same thing with the wife's nail Polish remover but you have to be quick it dries out so fast but only for removing the dirt. Then it will be turn of the inside of the hull around the deck after that I will turn my attention to the outside hull thinking where can I use my dremel ,what you said about the patina the dremel will go back in the box. With the carry on over the last few days you don't think straight and with a tube up your nose doesn't help but never mind I'm winning. Thanks for stopping me but I do really need to get on and make the stand. Everything I have removed I have taken a photo to remind where I goes so that's its so far. Henry x

Keith Have some bad news cleaning is on hold poor wife she's fed up standing in the corner holding this thing up while i work on it. So i have promised her i will make a stand was going to use this old thing behind me not the wife the machine. Maybe quicker to make out of wood have plenty lying around nothing fancy plywood and maybe tulip wood it's only recently i received tulip wood never heard of it before i believe it came from the U.S.A. it's a hard wood don't really know what to use it for strips, bending i don't know or maybe the stand. You will see i have removed this part from the centre of the deck don't know what it is called but gives better access for cleaning the deck, regarding the hull especially the white part will have to sand it down but still a bit further to go, colour wise will need to see the state of the hull first, the builder not too bad his planks are quite tight maybe better than mine but a couple of seams have opened up like i say a bit further to go. Have tried to by plans from Backers link but it keeps coming back req field then same again and again so stuff it also tried Amati 5 euros but it's only 5 euros if your order is 20 euros or more but i'm not open to blackmail so again stuff it maybe when the time comes somebody will help. Have to go supposed to be on oxygen 15hours a day, never mind there are people more worse off than me.

Ref #57 CC well said Only one last thing to say on the matter if people really don't like the model then they should get on to Amati they are the ones that produced the model don't direct their venom at me I am only the one with peoples help hoping to restore it. Having got that of my chest let's just say it's now water under the bridge and move on. Nirvana Many thanks Roger Like it or not it's part of the kit.

Well I'm finding it difficult on how to really respond for me #55 says it all #52 is also interesting there seems to be two schools of thought there are people on this forum where every thing must be exact that is fine by me I respect that then there are others like me who simply such detail does not bother them that also has to be respected if I had known this site was only for Academics I would not have joined. This site to me should be all about modeling and the joy it brings to people I am not going to say to the little boy next door who builds model aeroplanes here son don't buy that because that rivet is in the wrong place and in 100 years time its worthless in fact it's rubbish don't waste your time building that what kind of society are living in. I could go further and say to Ab your models may be H.C. but they are rubbish why waste your time building them which he himself also admitted that in one of his posts but i won't say that. I repeat this site should be about modeling not about pulling each other down I maybe not maybe I am getting old but I'm not stupid. Henry x

Keith There is not a man more than i respect when it comes to knowledge of Dutch ships than Ab. I can not understand why he does not realize that we are talking about a KIT made by Amati who also made von Bremen and another yacht Utrecht . I truly believe he has been put up to this by someone we know but I will not name. Henry x