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Sceatha

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Posts posted by Sceatha

  1. Hello all,

     

    I have been looking at plans of 18th century sloops and trying to understand certain concepts. My main sources are:

    1. HMS Ferret - 1711
    2. Mediator - 1745
    3. Chapman's Bermuda sloop (plate LVII) - probably a late 1760 specimen?

     

    Now admittedly these are very different ships, built by different traditions in different part of the world over a relatively large period of time, but still adhering to the same philosophy.

     

    Focusing on the steering:

    1. Ferret has been depicted with a tiller on the small open deck above the cabin.
    2. Mediator has a characteristic cabin with a curved roof and a steering wheel just in front of it. The tiller seems to be just below the maindeck, under the cabin.
    3. Bermuda sloop??

     

    Bermuda sloops are often depicted with the characteristic "domed" cabin, and in some depictions (namely Chapelle) are presented with a wheel, like Mediator. Now this makes sense for late models, like the one presented by Chapelle (based on Chapman) but what about earlier models? Apparently the wheel came into use after 1703 and I do not know how fast adoption was in the colonies.

     

    Has anyone come across any reference of the steering of an early Bermuda or colonial sloop (around 1700 to 1710)? I assume having the tiller inside the domed cabin would be nonsensical.

     

    Many thanks,

    George

    NMM_Mediator.jpg

    NMM_BermudaSloop.jpg

  2. Hello all,

     

    @Gregory I went through your build of the Resolution and it seems to be a great resource for rationalizing that kit. One question that came up (sorry if I missed it in your log) is how you treated the bowsprit length. Most cutter rigs have short bowsprit and I am not sure how Corel treated that part of the model. Was it a short one and did you opt to extend it?

     

    @georgeband it would be great if you could share the relevant page! I think this is the crux of my question. D the alternative gammoning methods assume a different length of bowsprit or foresail size? If not, was rope gammoning (along with the corresponding bow head) just a habit of certain shipbuildings traditions? (assuming the simpler attachment was sufficient to withstand forces to the bowsprit.

     

    Again thanks for the interesting input!

    George

  3. Hello both, many thanks for the replies.

     

    The question is more about understanding the bowsprit attachment requirements. While it does seem to depend on the size of the ship, this is not a safe rule.

    To compare a cutter rig to a cutter rig and not apples to oranges, Ferret (1711) has quite heavy gammoning holding down the sprit, while Alert (1777), while a bit longer than Ferret, has a much lighter attachment. The difference between the two is the Ferret's somewhat longer sprit (and 66 years of development of course).

     

    Is there a rule to this? Could Ferret be rigged like Alert (removing the gammoning)? Would in this case the Ferret's beakhead be unnecessary?

     

    George

  4. Hello all.

     

    I am looking at plans and try to understand the attachment of the bowsprit in 18th century Bermuda sloops.

    Beginning from plans of the Ferret (1711) it appears the bowsprit was attached with gammoning ropes, as was the habit in larger ships.

    Bermuda sloops seem in depictions to lack the substantial bow timbers and gammoning ropes, the bowsprit appears to just rest on the bow (or rest right next to it, cutter style).

     

    Does anyone happen to have specific any info on this?

     

    Many thanks,

    George

     

    HMS-Ferrett-built-in-1711-was-a-vessel-in-one-of-the-first-naval-sloop-classes.png

    Bermuda_sloop_-_privateer.jpg

  5. Is there any movement in the separated joint? If you put slight pressure on one of the planks near the crack does it move inward, even slightly? In this case you will need to glue them back, either from the inside, or by injecting glue behind the crack with a needle. have done this in the past with very good results. You can drill a tiny hole on the crack if you need to. Make sure you apply pressure after injecting the  glue and carefully clean any surplus that leaks.

     

    If there is no movement around the crack this is probably wood shrinkage. What conditions do you keep the model in? As @catopower asked, is it used for RC?

     

    Wildly changing humidity can do that to wood over 6 years, even painted wood.

     

  6. The impressive bowsprit is now in place. Too impressive in fact if you ask me. Lateen rigs do not usually have need for a long bowsprit unless they rig a fore staysail, which this one doesn't. Could it have occasionally been used for ramming? Ramming attacks by pirate vessels have definitely been reported in the Aegean at the time.

     

    A bit of rigging also visible in the photos, more on that soon...

     

    bow.thumb.JPG.f346068d662c7a795446cd6dbe3c1ef2.JPG181329184_bow(2).thumb.JPG.5d5509f918aaebde5aab6300881aa0ea.JPG

    101394973_bow(1).thumb.JPG.16b3e51de261dbbc66632aacd4251147.JPG

  7. 12 hours ago, mtaylor said:

     

    I don't know of anyone who measures perfectly the first time.  The usual method seems to be measure several times and then cut.  Even still, mistakes happem.

     

    Trying to get used to that Mark, for some reason a mistake in the plans can sometimes "mesmerize" me and I end up following the plans, even against common sense. 😄

     

    Good thing with our hobby is that everything is fixable if you have the time and patience.

     

    Meanwhile in the build I spent a fun day cutting and soldering brass rings:

     

    988770765_ring(2).thumb.JPG.2da3758e7b74a9ffb3cec99cb9a3f5f8.JPG

    1465264615_rings(1).thumb.JPG.98a69a0ac15051c86a7c70134e465f21.JPG

  8. 1 hour ago, Thanasis said:

    Well, in fact there is a way to correct a mistake and remember it without feeling bad...Change its  artistic presence....:)

    Thx

    https://modelshipworld.com/topic/4157-my-greek-state-of-mind/?tab=comments#comment-118069

     

    147426720_Stateofmind-4.JPG.cb261fea23cf98f382baefd83c207433.JPG

     

     

     

     

    That is a great idea Thanasis!

     

    Though I am afraid if I had to "rescue" every one of my own failed attempts in this manner I would soon run out of walls. 😄

     

     

  9. 20 hours ago, druxey said:

    Ah - a true ship modeler! Can't let it go until it's right. And, of course, it looks so much better now.

     

    Thank you Druxey, don't feel like a true ship modeller yet, as I feel a true ship modeller would measure correctly the first time, but hopefully I am on the right path. 😄

     

    14 hours ago, BobG said:

    Oh gosh, I share the same character trait and it is both a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing when I finally attempt to fix the problem and it turns out well and it's a curse when my attempted fix is worse than the original problem. I'm trying to learn to step back a bit and know when "good enough" is enough...but it's so hard for me to do!

     

    I know exactly what you mean Bob! What I find helps is reminding myself that (luckily) this is my hobby, there is no deadline and all the standards are set by myself. So I can remake the same thing a million times until I get it right. I am not making less mistakes, the models just take more time to finish. 😄

    It's an awful feeling, looking at a finished model and only being able to see that one mistake that only you remember.

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