Matrim

Not quite at the building stage yet (my new work desk apparently arrives 15th October at which point I can switch my home office from my workroom back to the house and start building).
 
I do have some slight progress. Thanks to the generosity of fellow MSW member Mark P - who kindly offered to use his larger printer to print out a lovely full size copy of my base board plan (to avoid having to try and do so on my A4 printer with resultant possible join errors) I now have a lovely base plan on the building board ready for work to begin.
 

 
lovely. I can't wait
 
 

Not quite at the building stage yet (my new work desk apparently arrives 15th October at which point I can switch my home office from my workroom back to the house and start building).
 
I do have some slight progress. Thanks to the generosity of fellow MSW member Mark P - who kindly offered to use his larger printer to print out a lovely full size copy of my base board plan (to avoid having to try and do so on my A4 printer with resultant possible join errors) I now have a lovely base plan on the building board ready for work to begin.
 

 
lovely. I can't wait
 
 

Not quite at the building stage yet (my new work desk apparently arrives 15th October at which point I can switch my home office from my workroom back to the house and start building).
 
I do have some slight progress. Thanks to the generosity of fellow MSW member Mark P - who kindly offered to use his larger printer to print out a lovely full size copy of my base board plan (to avoid having to try and do so on my A4 printer with resultant possible join errors) I now have a lovely base plan on the building board ready for work to begin.
 

 
lovely. I can't wait
 
 

Roosevelts bias is much more subtle than James though its still there. James's case for the prosecution is his War of 1812. When he wrote his huge naval history and got to the 1812 war he states that he wont go into all the arguments as he already covered that in his book on 1812. Roosevelt uses the Naval History and not the War of 1812 as his base to argue against so you sometimes get into strange situations when James says A in his Naval History . Roosevelt argues against A for reasons B & C (which seem reasonable) but then you look at the War of 1812 and James adds arguments D & E with F directly countering C.  
 
If anyone is interested I can try and research up some examples (it will take me a while as I would have to re-read them all, and by a while I mean months-years to do properly). 
 
James is certainly more strident but he was basically a lawyer attacking press lies in public. Roosevelt is a historian so is writing a very different book and against someone who cant argue back.
 
You have to read all three to see the historiography of it....though go for Roosevelt and James's 1812 to get a feel for the direct arguments and see what you think for yourself. 
 
Personally I follow NAM Rodgers opinion. The bigger ship won in every single frigate engagement (not smaller ships like sloops where even combats occurred and the US won), both navies were good and you don't need to read any nationalistic superiority into it beyond that. 
 
 
 
 

Interesting details on the Endymion, there also appears to be a chimney abaft the mizzen.  Records show portable stoves were issued to Ships, but I’ve never seen   physical evidence before.  It’s the kind of detail a sailor would pick up as opposed to a dockyard model maker.  Whilst not as aesthetically pleasing sometimes such models hold a wealth of detail that would otherwise be lost to us.  Where is this model housed?
 
Gary

I saw that stack too. Perhaps it is a portable stove for Killick to make his famous toasted cheese for Captain Aubrey and Dr. Maturin ... "Which I'm bloody well coming, ain't I ? Sir."
 
The model belongs to the Science Museum of London. They list it as the Frigate Pomone but label their photographs as both Pomone and Endymion. (E was built to the lines of P.)

Wow. Thanks for the color pictures. The builder went out of his way to paint the ship and the boats distinctively. That adds a lot. I'd like to see a close up of her stern carvings. Note the five windows, the details of which were omitted from the draught.
 
Here's a video I found of the Endymion in a war game.
 
 

Thanks for the note, she is now with the National Maritime Museum (SLR0651), from what I recalled all the Science Museum ships were transferred so I thought I’d check and they have better images of her.
 
 

Thank you Spyglass! I'm taking a breather and looking at things afresh. I tend to gather all info and funnel it in to best practice that works for me so this site is invaluable. Time was I could fettle metal to within a few tenths but wood is my Achilles heel!
I couldn't sleep at night if I knew  what lurked under the waterline wasn't ship shape! Lol.
Please check out my build log for future developments.
My thanks to everyone for their input and support.😀
 

You have a great attitude! Part of the problem you have is that the hull form is a very full one with round bow. This is the most tricky shape to cover neatly, but it can be done. As you've discovered, there's lots of advice available here.

Roosevelts bias is much more subtle than James though its still there. James's case for the prosecution is his War of 1812. When he wrote his huge naval history and got to the 1812 war he states that he wont go into all the arguments as he already covered that in his book on 1812. Roosevelt uses the Naval History and not the War of 1812 as his base to argue against so you sometimes get into strange situations when James says A in his Naval History . Roosevelt argues against A for reasons B & C (which seem reasonable) but then you look at the War of 1812 and James adds arguments D & E with F directly countering C.  
 
If anyone is interested I can try and research up some examples (it will take me a while as I would have to re-read them all, and by a while I mean months-years to do properly). 
 
James is certainly more strident but he was basically a lawyer attacking press lies in public. Roosevelt is a historian so is writing a very different book and against someone who cant argue back.
 
You have to read all three to see the historiography of it....though go for Roosevelt and James's 1812 to get a feel for the direct arguments and see what you think for yourself. 
 
Personally I follow NAM Rodgers opinion. The bigger ship won in every single frigate engagement (not smaller ships like sloops where even combats occurred and the US won), both navies were good and you don't need to read any nationalistic superiority into it beyond that. 
 
 
 
 

0-12 by Stephen Duffy, on Flickr
 
Contemporary sailor-made model of Endymion, including her armed boats in the waist note the carronade in the launch, and swivel gun in another:
 
0-14 by Stephen Duffy, on Flickr
 
0-1 by Stephen Duffy, on Flickr
 
0-6 by Stephen Duffy, on Flickr
 
Note the two additional swivels mounted on the capstan:
 
0-7 by Stephen Duffy, on Flickr

lovely topic that I shall return too when back on planks..

One belfry, with bell:

Some painting still required.

lovely topic that I shall return too when back on planks..

lovely topic that I shall return too when back on planks..

lovely topic that I shall return too when back on planks..

Glenn,
Don't regret this.  Excellent topic and presentation.
 
 
BTW,  here's another way similar but different from Kurt's and some others.   I use a short tall fence over my long short fence.   I then set the tall one such that it is about halfway (usually less) down the blade.   Kickback is basically a thing that never happens with this.  Usually push sticks on sort pieces and fingers on big ones.  

A problem with cutting planks - or anything thin - between the blade and the fence is the rotation of the blade will send it back at the operator with the slightest amount of pinch or a twist of the cut piece.  On big saws this has injured operators severely as well as killed some.  I don't think anybody has to worry about a fatal injury from our model saws but don't think this can't injure you.  Using a push stick helps cancel this out but one chews up a lot of push sticks when doing thin strips because the push stick has to be real thin when doing real thin planks.  If you have ever had a push stick hit by the blade tooth you know the kind of shock that can be transmitted to your hand. 
 
It can all be avoided when using a tool to the left of the blade so there is nothing adjacent to the cut piece and it can fall away from the blade rather than come back at you and it's easier to use a push stick when one is pushing on the thicker part of the sheet.
 
This is something that is used with full size table saws but the fixtures/tools that work on the big saws will not work on our small saws.  I adapted the idea to a fixture I use on my Byrnes saws. 

The fixture is set to the left of the blade as shown above (Lefties you probably set your fence to the left of the blade so when I say left or right do the opposite).   Measure where to place the fixture as shown below - measuring from the blade to the tip of the fixture for the thickness you want for the strips.  With the sheet material moved into contact with the fixture on the left and the fence on the right.  Lock the fixture down.  This only locks the gauge part to the aluminum piece that fits into the groove on the saw table.  I cut the aluminum to be a tight fit that still slides back and forth within the groove until I tighten it a bit more and the aluminum piece locks into the groove - notice the slit in the length of the aluminum piece - there is a counter-bore on the underside so the flat head machine screw makes the edges spread a bit wider when the screw is fully tightened.
 
Move the fixture back towards you so there is a gap between the leading edge of the blade and the fixture as shown above and fully tighten the locking screw as described above.  Turn the saw on and use a push stick to push the wide sheet material to cut the strip.  When the strip is cut, it will fall to the left of the blade, move it out of the way and then pick up the sheet material and place it between the fixture and the fence - forward of the blade.  Move the fence over to bump the sheet material up to the fixture and cut the next strip.
 
On the Byrnes saw the thickness of each strip will be as close to exactly the same thickness as you can ever get.  When I started cutting strips this was I measured each strip to see the variation - if any - and found that +/- 0.0005" maximum was what I was getting.  Wood can change that amount or more from day to day with humidity changes in the shop.  A bit of practice on how tight to make the fit between the fixture and the fence is needed but by the time one cuts a dozen strips the variation will be what I listed or less.
 
The fixture shown below was my first generation tool that I used for several years before I made the one out of Plexiglas.
 

The first generation fixture below
 

 

Interesting Glenn,
 
When I innocently posted this photo in my log last year:
 

I got lots of PM's about how dangerous it was.
 
Here is one of my responses:
 
"Yes, You are correct.  this is not the recommended way but many people use this technique and I am not an experienced user of table saws either so was a bit concerned . So I asked Jim Byrnes about this and he replied that ripping between the blade and the fence was the way to go . Apparently there is a very small offset at the rear of the fence to minimize the chances of kickback.
 
I used a block of wood on the left hand side behind the blade to push the billet against the fence and then used a push stick once the billet was on the table.  There was no evidence of any kick back in the forty odd planks that I cut.  Of course you don't need to move the fence if you do it this way and so I imagine the reproducibility is better.  Incidentally, Chuck does it this way and he must have cut tens of thousands of planks."
 
 
John
 

Ripping planks
 
I’ve been asked to do this a couple of times, I’ve been hesitant because there are undoubtedly many ways to do it and many people better at it than I am. If you prefer a different way, then you should do it that way. I can only say this way works for me. For example, Jim Byrnes tutorial is pinned to the top of this section.
 
So, here is what I’ve learned about ripping planks from milled sheets. To be very clear, it’s what I’ve learned from asking questions, seeking help, and learning from others. I’ve adopted and amalgamated all that input into my own technique. That I can successfully turn milled sheets into planks comes from the gift of knowledge from many sources but especially @Chuck Passaro, @Rustyj, Jeff of HobbyMill fame, and from the guy that provides the perfect tool, Jim Byrnes of https://www.byrnesmodelmachines.com  
 

 
I’m not going to insult anyone’s intelligence discussing shop safety. If you build models and own sharp tools, machine or otherwise you know how to use them and what to wear to keep your fingers and eyes. So, do those things if you do anything I describe here. This is my disclaimer.
 
First the equipment. In my opinion there is no more essential and no better tool for ship modeling than the Byrnes saw. Far more than ripping planks, it is a precision instrument. There are plenty of posts on MSW about this saw, so go read those and then buy one. This saw is without peer, in my opinion. Please hold your replies on why another model saw is right for you. I respect your choice.
 
Next is the blade - I’m sure there is more than one that will do the job, but all the people I have asked, including Jim Byrnes, say the same thing. The Thurston I-292, .030 kerf slitter blade. I understand Thurston is out of business, I’m sure there are equivalents if you can’t find one.
 
Here’s what I use and how I do it.
 

 
I start by cleaning the table and the blade with denatured or isopropyl alcohol. There are other methods, but keep the blade clean however you do it. I also on occasion wax the table with common car wax. I cut planks between the blade and the fence using the tall fence accessory from Byrnes.
 

 
Probably the biggest breakthrough was Chuck’s coaching to stand to the side of the saw, not behind it. This photo shows my orientation to the saw when I cut. It’s amazing how much more natural it is and more control I obtained from this simple change.
 
I use sacrificial push sticks. Just a square length of wood with a notch cut in it that I can push right through the blade. When it crumbles, I cut a new one.
 
The side block is just a piece of wood. I glued the two pieces on top for a little more of a grip, it also serves as a finger guard. I sanded the side facing the milled stock square and as smooth as I could get it. The optimal length is 5 inches, Jeff describes why in a tutorial he wrote, I’ll just say it is the right length.
 
The last bit of “equipment” is an ordinary clamp, and another reason for the tall Byrnes fence. 
 
 
 
 With all this in hand I can start cutting. I start by setting the blade height so that the teeth at the high point are fully exposed above the wood being cut at the high point, but just barely. I can see the full depth of the top teeth above the wood, but just. With my blade, that equates to about 1/16th above the sheet. The point is to have the blade teeth at the peak just clear of the wood. There are technical reasons for this, mine is that this is where it cuts best. Don’t set it too high and adjust the blade every time to whatever thickness of wood you’re cutting. This is true of cross cuts as well.
 
I set the fence distance to the blade to the thickness of the plank I want using an existing plank, digital calipers, ruler, or rip gauge. Sometimes this ends up being trial and error, I cut the first one and adjust accordingly. I set the fence at my desired width then fully tighten the front fence knob on the fence. Then, ever so slightly, push the rear of the fence away and tighten the rear fence screw to provide back taper. Push too much and the plank thickness won’t be consistent, too little and you get the ever-feared kickback. How much? I use the highly accurate measurement of ‘just a tad.’ It really takes just the lightest amount. Jim Byrnes suggests .005 inch, that’s not much.
 

 
 
The side block, push stick, and top clamp in combination allow me to: Hold the sheet against the fence with side pressure (and not be tempted to use that hand to help push the wood, don’t do that, push only with the push stick), hold the sheet down on the table close to the blade, and push the sheet all the way through. I set the wood just behind the blade, use the clamp to press the wood down using the fence. I position the side block so that it covers the back of half of the blade and the rest holding the wood against the fence. As the sheet nears the end, I slide the block forward along with it as the last of it goes through the blade.
 
This all comes with practice. The side block is a good example, I want just enough side pressure to keep the wood tight to the fence, too little and too much create problems - firm, but not forced, is the best I can describe it. You know if it’s too firm because you can’t push the wood, you know it was too light when your wood is not the thickness you measured. You know you weren’t consistent throughout the cut when you have one thickness at one side of the plank and something more or less than that at the other. It’s a feel thing you only get by doing it.
 
I start the saw and push with the push stick oriented so, regardless of the width of stock I’m cutting, it remains more or less centered on the blade. I think of it as pushing both the plank being cut and the stock through together even as they separate.
 
When this all works in concert the plank goes right through the blade and is pushed out the far side. I then reset everything, especially the clamp, for the next plank.
 
I always keep checking to make I’m getting a consistent cut. Any number of things can create a variance. Too much or too little side pressure, Not keeping it clamped to the table with the top clamp (it will rise up on occasion), too much relief on the rear side of the fence. However, once I get going, I can rip off any number of consistent planks that are model worthy with little to no waste.
 
I couldn’t do any of this six months ago, I would desperately try to find already cut planks if I wanted to do something other than the kit provided wood. Once I made the effort to ask for help, so plentiful and so freely given here on MSW, and started cutting I found out it’s not that hard.  I was pretty proud of myself when Chuck’s directions for Cheerful called for wood cut to a thickness of 1/32nd of an inch, and I made that cut. Once I did that, I knew I was indeed a plank ripper.
 
One last time. I know there are many ways, many other practices, and many expert wood workers on this site. This way works for me and I hope it helps some of you. 
 
Oh, and practice shop safety.
 
 
 

Sheer,
Your planking looks really good so far.   You can indeed use stealers, but five does indeed seem like too many.  Spiling would be the best solution for fitting the planks properly but your call on which way to go.    Are you beveling the edges of each plank enough?  There seems to be slight gap between strakes where there is a hard curve.   ( I realize photos show up EVERYTHING that do not necessarily jump out when viewing our work live.)     Sketch is attached to show what I mean about the bevel.                           Allan 

 
 

Hello again! I have started second planking but am undecided how to proceed beyond this point.
Photos show that midships I need 10 more planks @5mm or a fraction less. At the stern post I have 70mm to fill. I'm minded to put in four stealers, probably half stealers so I don't cut into two adjacent planks.
These would be quite short not going much further than frame 13 as marked. The only alternative I can see is to narrow the planks at midships and fan them out towards the stern to gain width. I would need to get more material to do this.
I've already got one stealer above the garboard ( which I should have thickened) so I would have a total of 5 stealers at the stern. I would really like just to varnish finish otherwise wouldn't be asking. Is five stealers too many? Would it be better to buy sheet and spile them or would that make them look a bit wide compared to the rest? All opinion valued!
😀

Nice to have you. Hope you get loads from the site to help..

Nice to have you. Hope you get loads from the site to help..