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oakvander

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  1. Hi Oakvander,

     

    I'm located in Petaluma, CA, just north of San Francisco. I've spent my life in the maritime community here (my dad was in the shipping business with American President Lines.) I've been involved with other models folks sought to donate to the local museums through my connections with the late Karl Kortum, the founder of the San Francisco Maritime Museum. (I am an attorney by profession and a local maritime historian by avocation.) I've been building ship models on and off, as well as building, sailing, and maintaining my own wooden yachts for over fifty years. I've studied ship models "in person" in maritime museums in the U.S. and Europe. While I don't consider myself a "professional" in the field, I have to say that I can't imagine there is any museum that would be interested in accepting this model for any purpose other than to sell it off to a decorator or auction house, which for their purposes, would not be worth the effort because of the cost to restore it to marketable condition may well exceed the value of the model itself once it's restored. This isn't to suggest the model is "worthless," but only that those in the business of buying and selling models are looking to make a profit and little else. Moreover, the model is of a vessel with absolutely no local connection, so museums wouldn't be interested. Finally, as is becoming apparent from the posts in your thread, the model itself has no remarkable provenance, although we do know it appears to be a copy of the 16th Century NMG model whose prototype itself cannot be identified. 

     

    As someone mentioned, there may be a library, a yacht club, or a waterfront bar that might be interested in it for use as decor, but I doubt any of these would pay money for it nor provide an IRS deductible donation receipt for it for anything more than the statutory $500 maximum limit without a written appraisal for it that satisfied the IRS requirements. Here again, none of these would be interested in the model unless it was restored, the cost of which would far exceed the amount of any net recovery from a charitable donation deduction.

     

    Another problem with selling models is that they are very expensive to ship anywhere because their cases must be properly crated to prevent breakage and they require very special handling by specialist shippers. They rarely survive a long-haul ride in the back of a semi-trailer. Here again, the shipping and special handling costs could well exceed the market value of the model, so the market area is likely to be limited to local buyers.

     

    If the above discouraging assessment proves to be the case after their further efforts, I'd hate to see this otherwise nicely built model end up in the back of a Goodwill truck or the like. As I have done with deserving models before, I would be happy and grateful to "give it a good home," and restore it for my own "collection," which is hardly what anyone would call "museum quality," but interesting nonetheless. I hate to see well-build models die. However, the economics of it all being that the most I can justify offering for the model is to restore, preserve, and and appreciate it. If that it appears to the owners to be the best option left to them, I'd be happy to have it.

     

    If you or they wish to discuss it further with me, you can contact me at robert@cleek-elin.com or phone at 415-408-8464.

     

    BOB CLEEK

    1. Show previous comments  10 more
    2. Bob Cleek

      Bob Cleek

      Yes, the prices that all but the top antique models like the Kriegsteins collect bring is very disappointing, considering the work that goes into creating them and their intrinsic beauty. I'm gratified to hear Arnold Kriegstein's opinion is close to mine. I had not mentioned a price estimate previously, but I'd agree. An auction catalog estimate $3,000 to $5,000 was exactly the range I had in my mind, although that was if the model were properly restored with perhaps some of the more glaring errors corrected and, as I suggested before, the restoration work could take a serious bite out of what would be netted from that price estimate. I wouldn't dispute Kriegstein's 1970 build date estimate, either. It could easily have been built that early, although if I had to bet money on it, I'd put it closer to 1990, but that's just my guess. This model is of the type and era of Kreigstein's forte and, as the saying goes, "He da man!" (Without question, I'd guess the value of the Kriegstein collection is well in excess of $3 million!) The only caveat I'd add to his estimate would be, "If a buyer can be found." I follow some of the auction house listings posted on line (e.g. https://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/69080_ship-model-and-nautical-antique-auction/?page=1) What I've seen of late is that model auction estimates in the $3,000 to $5,000 range often sell in the $1,500 to $2,000 range or are withdrawn due to the lack of a bid that meets the reserve price. Auction prices must also factor in the "buyer's premium" which can run from 10% to 25% in some cases. Based on what we know at present, it's a copy of an original, so serious collectors like the Kriegsteins wouldn't be interested in it. It would likely be of interest as a decorator piece, but I expect the market for decorators "accent" models of that size is pretty limited. (Interior decorators decorating the big library of some gazillionaire's restored mansion in  the Hamptons buy them.) 

       

      I can't say that I'd expect Wall's estimate to differ from Arnold Kriegstein's, unless Wall's were considerably lower because he appraised it at he thought he could sell it for in his gallery. His motivation would be to "move" it quickly. It costs him money to hold onto a  model. It's all about "turn over" in the art gallery business. (One of the advantages of being a divorce attorney for many years is all the interesting trivia you learn about your clients' businesses. One of my clients in recent years was the manager of a gallery that  represented Leroy Nieman and sold all of his paintings, so I had to learn all about the art gallery business. Another client was an art collector and investor with a collection that occasioned a dispute over the authenticity of a sketch attributed to Rafael. I worked with an expert from Oxford University who did a scientific analysis of that one and found yet another sketch beneath the top one. I learned that in Rafael and Michaelangelo's day, paper was expensive, so they'd sketch drawings for their frescos and paintings on paper and when the fresco was done, they'd paint white paint over the sketch and use the paper again for another sketch! But I digress... :D ) 

       

      As for my still being interested in it, yes, certainly. I actually enjoy restoration work on well-done models because it requires getting into the builder's head by studying their work. Being the perfectionist in such things that I am, it would be a lot more of a project than I'd first anticipated, but a worthwhile endeavor nonetheless. Another example of the old maxim, "Be careful what you wish for!" :D 

    3. oakvander

      oakvander

      Hi Bob. Thanks again for your detailed response. I've posted a fun update about the model!  The owners are still deciding what to do with it. I'll let you know more when I know more.

    4. Bob Cleek

      Bob Cleek

      Hi Oakvander,

       

      Yes, I just saw your post. It's indisputably the same model. The grain and markings on the hull match perfectly, like a finger print. Amazing that Dr. Kriegstein still had the photo. Franklin surely knew his Navy Board models, but I wasn't aware he had only built two models. Kriegstein's information seems to agree with my impressions. I guessed it was built a little later than 1970, but close enough. Come to think of it, though, 1970 makes more sense given the "lead bloom." It wasn't until the mid-70's at the earliest that lead was replaced by the lead-free Britannia metal for such castings. The fact Franklin was a furniture builder and restorer fits perfectly with the skill evident in the wood work and the fact he only built two models, which would explain the disparity in the skill evident in the wood work and in the rigging. It explains the nice case and table, probably built by him as well.

       

      The only question is how did the model get here if it were built in England? That's a lot of expensive packing and shipping. Not the sort of thing you throw into a cargo container along with a lot of other junk for the ride over.

       

      Bob

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