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CUTTY SARK by keelhauled - Mantua - kit bashed - First wooden ship build

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I know......we buy all these tools and toys,  and then we have to leave them sitting there because we just don't have the time.   I'm getting there........finger's crossed for the day I can take up residence at my table! ;)     viva la playtime! :cheers:

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I'm with you there Dennis!!

I was in London for the last two weeks for work, but I took a couple of days of leave.  I was able to go to the Cutty twice! It took me 15 years to get back, so I spent about 10 hours total walking her decks.

I'm a very happy man!

 

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Fore and Mast Stay re-rigging adventure.........or don't do work on the ship late at night 😖 Make sure that your read all the way through the post!

 

So, first day back in the shop since my travels.  I was looking through Underhill's Masting and Rigging the Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier and saw a diagram of rigging the stays and the top the "correct way" (through the lubber holes) and the  "incorrect way" (over the top) of doing so.  I remember thinking "novice mistake."  Later in the evening (about 10:00 pm)  I was sitting looking at my model and noticed that both my fore and main stays were rigged over the top! 😲  

 

I jumped on my computer and brought up the photos that I took on the ship two weeks ago and other photos that I had.  Yep, the stays are through the lubber hole.  So I spent the next three hours re-rigging the two says.  As you can expect very tedious work, un-bonding glue, removing the seizing, trying to save the fully served stays, etc.  Shortly after 1:00 am, the stays were both now rigged through t he lubber holes and tensioned in place just waiting glue.  I wanted to let them sit tensioned over night before gluing.  I was now happy, but exhausted. Success!!:dancetl6:

 

Before turning in, I wanted to make sure that I knew where the main stays were seized near the fore mast.  As I was looking through the cutty photos, one caught my eye.  :blink: :huh:

This one

image.png.787cc09b5d556ed6d83c1db6df6ad2ec.png

I blinked several times.  Is that stay going over the top?!  I checked out another couple of photos of the foremast.  Yep, over the top, not through the lubber hole!!!  I had checked photos.  How did this happen?  I raced to pull up photos of the  mainmast.  Here is the photo of the mainmast.

image.png.b41b139facadb7c23ce08aa41fb0881c.png

I must have pulled up photos of the mainmast thinking it was the foremast and must have been influenced by Underhill.  I couldn't believe it.  Still can't.  The fore stay is over the top and the main stay is through the lubber hole. 

 

Thank God that I hadn't glued anything.  I went to bed very unhappy.

 

I thought that I'd point this difference out to you, so that you don't make my mistake in rigging [Edit: not a mistake! see the update]. I was correct for the fore (l'm sure that I must have checked and double checked at the time) and incorrect for the main (I think that I was so concerned about the run of the stay and the running of the blocks at the spider band on the fore that I wasn't paying attention).

 

Another factor-  I was tired.  I'm lucky that I didn't damage anything.  I did fix a mistake, but I also created one that I now have to go back and fix.

 

I broke TWO of my rules:

1. DON'T PHYSICALLY WORK ON THE SHIP OR WITH POWER TOOLS WHEN YOU'RE TIRED!!!

2.  CHECK, CHECK, AND THEN CHECK AGAIN, BEFORE CHANGING ANYTHING THAT I'VE DONE IT THE PAST.  I've usually researched it well during that time.  Most of the time my second guess is wrong and what I've done is the past is actually correct.

 

Best

marc

 

Here's an update!

 

I just finished re-rigging the  fore stay to over the top and was putting away the physical photos that I took in 1990.  These were sitting on my workbench from last night.    There was one of the foremast and my eyes popped out!!!

 

Here is the photo of the foremast. 

 

you can clearly tell that it is the foremast from the fish pendant and you can see the main and mizzen behind.

 

711539746_mjs-1990tripforemast.thumb.jpg.b05ff689cd2b51fa421fddae1bc20b0a.jpg

 

1331212477_mjs-1990tripforemascrop.jpg.ded271409c916f93d3b23f118432a367.jpg

Yep, the fore stay is going through the lubber hole.  So, I've just spent the time to move the stay from over the top to through the lubber hole, to back over the top again, just to see an image of the stay going through the lubber hole. :stunned: 

 

I feel vindicated that I did see the stay going through the lubber hole of the forestay and wasn't mistaken.  However I'm not very happy that I've gone made the change, changed, and changed it again.  I'm going in circles!!!!!  :default_wallbash:

 

In most of the photos that I find including Longridge from the 1920's the fore stay is over the top.  I actually think that it looks better through the lubber hole and I must have originally had it in this configuration when I determined the height of the cleat, because the line is better.  However, since most of the photos have the stay over the top and I'm concerned about the damage being done to the serving of the stay with each re-rigging and the risk to damaging other parts, I'm going to leave the stay over the mast.

 

However, I did want you to be aware that historically the fore stay has been rigged both ways

Edited by keelhauled
Additional information found on the actual rigging

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you know your in trouble when you have pictures that contradict each other. ;)   before finding MSW,  I was always under the impression,  that the main stays and mizzen stays were tied to the preceding masts.  it was a shock to find that they actually went through a block and terminated on the deck or fife rails.   it dawned on me that stays were indeed adjustable.........and that simply tying them to masts was illogical.   as has been said,  we are all constantly learning....nice to know that there are some learning curves.  it's a relief that there was no real right or wrong......but,  they do look better going under rather than over.   I never knew of these holes and that they had a name.    those are some really good pictures too.

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Thanks Dennis.

I think that we just have to remember that the ship evolved and changed when she was in service.  Likewise when they "restore" these museum ships they constantly change.  There are numerous examples.  The storage of and the number of boats stowed on deck is one example, another is the arrangement and methods of the canvass covers for those boats.  

best

Marc

Edited by keelhauled
original post was empty

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Weekend (plus a few days) update!

 

Working on the boat skids

 

Here are some reference photos.  Note the differences in the canvas covers.  I'll post the photos that I took of the cover in 1990. I don't have them digitally right now, so I'm post them later.  She now has different covers which you can see in the photos that I took in October 2018. 

 

My original post had some place holder photos of the Cutty's boats/skids that I downloaded from the web. In the original post I had stated that they were from the web, but unknown to me, the photos had their copyright watermark removed by someone.  I'd like to make sure that the owner has credit. The photos were copyrighted by Lou van Wijhelong

My apologies Lou.

 

 

 

As the boats appeared in 2018

1506388503_cuttyshipoutboard.thumb.jpg.202e1882ea8653e04ee72603fce557a8.jpg1999091699_cuttyshipinboard.thumb.jpg.f2d132d0da0e324ecc91ca1ba541c90d.jpg

 

So here are the hooks that I made for the inboard sides.  For scale reference, each square of the grid is a half inch (1.625 cm)

 

hooks.jpg.f86f2aaefb383bd5f744360742818d70.jpg

And my attempt at simulating the hardware on the skids

 

141895656_skidsfront.jpg.601906a5b94bff243adccebff4057596.jpg1673572308_skidsback.jpg.6e7ca9c599f80b59288c588fb35cb4be.jpg469034974_skidsfrontandback.jpg.0346ad56efe41793a24faa1c8ea278da.jpg

 

And finally with in place with the boats on the skids.  I still have to rig the boats to the skids.

 

283908928_portlifeboat1.jpg.604f9ec6b570361cf62aa178b6d144a9.jpg1559104721_portlifeboat2.thumb.jpg.526c5cfbb36cd854c8a402fa09d8a46d.jpg1288216214_aftskids.jpg.1c10283f1a05b045f0d01effbb8b87d7.jpg

Thanks for looking!!

 Happy New Year!

Marc

 

 

Edited by keelhauled
I was notified that someone removed the copyright from the photos that I found on the web. To protect the rights of the owner of the images, I've removed the photos (they were the black and white images). My apologies - Marc

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Nice work Chap!!

I went with "Carvel" as opposed to "Clinker." (I thought simpler?)

Cest' la vie, I guess....

 

What did you use for the covers?

I need to formulate something for my "Sanason" Life Boat covers....

 

Happy New Year to you and yours also!!

 

New Zealand is the first to see the first light of the New Year, not gloating about it.... 🙂

(Chatham Islands actually, to be 100% correct.)

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry. (HOF)

 

 

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Thanks Harry and Nenad,

 

Hope you guys are doing well.

 

Harry, I am jealous that you'll be the first to see the new year as well as your scenery. Just got back from Melbourne before Christmas, the weather was beautiful - the real heat hadn't hit yet. Do you guys have typically cooler temps than Melbourne?

 

Harry, The coverings were made using cotton fabric.  I didn't do anything special to them.  The cloth contoured to the boats really nicely without having to use diluted glue or some other agent.  Do you have a build log going for your ship?  send me the link or post it here.  I couldn't find it.

 

thanks

marc

Edited by keelhauled

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Hi Mark,

Summer has not been that great as yet, Mild/Muggy and quite a bit of "Liquid Sunshine." (25.8' C yesterday in the shade.)

 

Thanks for the advice for the Lifeboat Covers, I'll give it a shot soon enough!!

If you want to have a look-see at my projects, (Past and Present), just search under hof00 in this forum.

 

Cheers....HOF.

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On 12/28/2018 at 9:34 PM, keelhauled said:

Weekend (plus a few days) update!

 

Working on the boat skids

 

Here are some reference photos.  Note the differences in the canvas covers.  The covers that I went reflects my reference photos from when I visited the ship in 1990.  I don't have them digitally right now, so I'm posting some photos of the cutty that show the same covers.  She now has different covers which you can see in the photos that I took in October 2018. 

 

As the boats appeared in 1990outboard.thumb.jpg.0407feea78de3cde28f7bca7aaa47c75.jpg

inboard.thumb.jpg.8efce1428e36734727c197703b113882.jpg

As the boats appeared in 2018

1506388503_cuttyshipoutboard.thumb.jpg.202e1882ea8653e04ee72603fce557a8.jpg1999091699_cuttyshipinboard.thumb.jpg.f2d132d0da0e324ecc91ca1ba541c90d.jpg

 

So here are the hooks that I made for the inboard sides.  For scale reference, each square of the grid is a half inch (1.625 cm)

 

hooks.jpg.f86f2aaefb383bd5f744360742818d70.jpg

And my attempt at simulating the hardware on the skids

 

141895656_skidsfront.jpg.601906a5b94bff243adccebff4057596.jpg1673572308_skidsback.jpg.6e7ca9c599f80b59288c588fb35cb4be.jpg469034974_skidsfrontandback.jpg.0346ad56efe41793a24faa1c8ea278da.jpg

 

And finally with in place with the boats on the skids.  I still have to rig the boats to the skids.

 

283908928_portlifeboat1.jpg.604f9ec6b570361cf62aa178b6d144a9.jpg1559104721_portlifeboat2.thumb.jpg.526c5cfbb36cd854c8a402fa09d8a46d.jpg1288216214_aftskids.jpg.1c10283f1a05b045f0d01effbb8b87d7.jpg

Thanks for looking!!

 Happy New Year!

Marc

Beautiful job! 

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Hi etubino,

thanks for the complement and taking a look at my build!

best

Marc

 

Hi everyone,

I'd like to point out that black and white photos of the Cutty's boats/skids in etubino's post above quoting my post, above belong to and are copyrighted by  Lou van Wijhelong.  I had downloaded them from google where someone had striped his watermark.  

 

My apologies Lou. 

 

Best

Marc

 

Edited by keelhauled
to provide Lou Van Wijehlong with the photo credits

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HI everyone, 

 

It occurred to me that since I'm in the sail rigging phase of the ship that you might be interested in the rigging plan.  I made the plan by using Campbell's rigging plans.  He details which lines go through the fairleads on the shrouds, which essentially tells you which belaying pins are used for those lines. Between that info and the info he provides in the sail plan, probably 70% of the lines are taken care of.  I  used Longridg,  photos of the cutty, and the Underhill's book on rigging to fill in any missing info.  

 

While searching the web, I came across a site that has belaying plans for the Cutty created by Jan Gilbrich http://www.jans-sajt.se/contents/Navigation/Modelling/Belayings_Collection.htm.  I checked the plans that I created independently using Campbell, Longridge, underhill and cutty photos against Jan's site and the plans are almost identical.   I'd highly recommend the site. http://www.jans-sajt.se/

 

I'll try to scan my hand drawn plans into the computer and post my version this weekend.  Also photos of the work on the foremast upper and lower top sails.

 

Best

Marc

 

 

Edited by keelhauled
added hyperlink

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Hi everyone,

I had issues with my scanner, so I had to take photos of my belaying plan.  The ship is split between the fore mast and main mast to fit the ship onto the paper that I had.  I made a reference point indicated by the letter "A" with a circle around it on both sections of the deck plan so that you can easily see where the two plans come together.  I don't claim that this plan is correct, but it's the best I could come up with  using Campbell, Longridge, underhill and cutty photos.  I also went back and compared it against Jan's and may have made adjustments.  You can see that I've made some adjustments along the way when I found better info or found that some points would never work if the stunsuls were set or some other conflict with Campbell's rigging plans.  Also you will see that I'm using tails lines as indicated by Longridge page 141 when the ship is sailing close to the wind (wind from forward of the beam) with the course yards braced hard.

 

Also, you'll notice that I only wrote out the lines on either port (P) or starboard (S) and usually indicated that the line was either for port (P) or starboard (S) as well as the side indicated.  You'll also see a symbol of a circle with a "V" on its side connected to the circle and often connecting lines together.  This symbol indicates that fairleads on the shrouds are used for these lines as indicated on Campbell's plans.

 

Edit - I was checking the location of the royal sheets for the fore sail and comparing where I had it located vs newer photos and Jan Gilbrich's pin layout and noticed an error on my plans.  For some reason, I erroneously switched the Course clew and Course lift belaying positions on my plans as they appear below.  You should switch the Course Clew and Course Lift for the fore and main pins.  -sorry Marc

 

Sorry this isn't neater.  I never thought I'd be sharing it with anyone.

 

I'll post some photos of the ship this weekend.  Last weekend just got too busy (sorry)

best

Marc2086567393_belayingpoinsmizen-aft.thumb.jpg.cd4e6a326901333cfd5ea563a761eb2f.jpg1354958593_belayingpointsmain.thumb.jpg.12ab6325dbfaea518c9fef46537e07da.jpg848782052_belayingpointsmain2.thumb.jpg.b4d040589e9352e55f700153a473bd39.jpg1010810466_belayingpointsbetweenforeandmain.thumb.jpg.72655ee93a7c3b32e10ee85bcb827f11.jpg214473969_belayingpointsforemast2.thumb.jpg.ff6bdf47951e8fbdc4b1b6b08a9ed4b2.jpg1543746858_belayingpointsforemast1.thumb.jpg.f688c7a10a8d5ac409600e9aec7daca7.jpg62899095_belayingpointsforestaysailsandforemastpinrail.thumb.jpg.a64b105c64c817018ba0d8f1990a53dc.jpg

Edited by keelhauled
Found an error in the plans

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Hi Marc,

I am a little confused as to "Campbell's Plan." (Always have.... Are they one and the same?)

Is this the same as the Cutty Sark Preservation Society's" plans?

I don't understand the relationship between the two, if any. between the "Campbell" thingy and the Cutty Sark Preservation Society's" plans

 

I used the Cutty Sark Preservation plans for Rigging/Blocks/Belaying.

 

Longridge leaves a lot of gaps, if you have plans with his publications, you'll need to "Blow them up!"

 

Cheers and Regards,

 

Harry. (HOF)

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Hi Harry,

 

G.F Campbell created a set of three plans which have been available through the Cutty Sark's gift shop for at least the past 28 years.  When I bought mine, they offered to stamp the plans with the ships original seal.  Campbell was a navel architect that as I understand it was commissioned to draw plans during the 1st half of the 20th century.  Campbell also wrote a couple books on clippers.

 

Lou, if you are following, perhaps you can give us some info.

 

as

post-606-0-77532600-1362580608.jpg

this is a shot from my set of plans.  The plans are available from the website below.

Cutty Sark Sail Plan A1 Print  Cutty Sark Rigging Plan A1 Print 

The sail and rigging images are from the Cutty's shop website (link below)

 

I've purchased two sets of plans over the years, one set in 1990 another in 2003.  The quality of the 2003 set was much lower than the 1990 set, which was  very crisp and clear.  The 2003 set looked like copies of copies.  I recently was at the Cutty back in June and looked at the set for sale (which at that time only 2 out of the 3 plans were available).  The quality of the 2017 set was significantly better than the 2003 set.  They can be purchased in person at the ship's shop or online at https://shop.rmg.co.uk/collections/prints

 

The sail and rigging plans are 5 pounds and the general plan is 8 pounds

 

I don't know if these plans are the same as the Cutty Sark preservation Society plans.

From best I can find the Cutty Sark Presevation Society became the Cutty Sark Trust both under Prince Phillip. I have a couple of reports that the Trust put out concerning the plans for restoration.  Sometime between the restoration work starting on the Cutty and now, the Trust website redirected to the Royal Museums Greenwich site.  I'm sure someone can tell us what happened.  Maybe the Trust became a part of the RMG?  Any way, I've tried to search for plans from the Cutty Sark preservation society using google, without success.  So I can't answer your question about whether they are the same plans.

 

Longridge's plans are as they were when he visited the ship as she was being used as a cadet training ship.  She still retained major changes to the ship including a different fore castle and monkey poop/liverpool house with an aft entry and a completely different forward entry (both are retained to this day).  Campbell's plans are supposed to be "as built"  but we know that isn't true, because it includes the crew deckhouse.  However, they are the best plans I've seen.

 

Don't know if this helps, but at least you can see the thumbnail images of the plans of Campbell's plans for comparision.

 

thanks

Marc

Edited by keelhauled
Typo

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Thank you Marc - 

 

The Campbell I bought from the Cutty Sark's gift shop (online) was very rough.  Not useless but as you say, copy of a copy (of a copy).  This was a number of years before 2017 but after 2003.  I will order another set.

Thanks for mentioning the improved prints.

- Tim

PS  feel free to make another set of your drawings and mail them to me 😉

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Hi Mojofilter,

If I can help fill in info on the Campbell plans that are broken, missing on your set, let me know.  If had a couple of folks ask me "what does it say here" or "what size blocks are identified there", etc.  Happy to help.

Best

Marc

 

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13 hours ago, keelhauled said:

Hi Harry,

 

G.F Campbell created a set of three plans which have been available through the Cutty Sark's gift shop for at least the past 28 years.  When I bought mine, they offered to stamp the plans with the ships original seal.  Campbell was a navel architect that as I understand it was commissioned to draw plans during the 1st half of the 20th century.  Campbell also wrote a couple books on clippers.

 

Lou, if you are following, perhaps you can give us some info. 

 

The 3 plans by Campbell are the ones made for re-rigging the ship in the nineteen fifties (source: Paper "The Restoration of the Cutty Sark" by Frank G.G. Carr. Read in London at a meeting of the R.I.N.A. on March 24, 1965). The name changes from Cutty Sark Preservation Society to Cutty Sark Trust etc. have to do with organisational changes; there are no different Campbell sets (albeit ones of different copy quality).

 

Lou

Edited by Lou van Wijhe

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Hi everyone, 

I've been working on attaching the upper and lower topsails/yards to the mast and rigging their running lines.

For each sail, It took me about 20 hours to attach the lines lift the yard and rig the lines. (combination of slowness and rerunning lines to ensure free running).  After rigging the upper topsail it occurred to me that the sheets need to be shortened.  Stupid oversight that the sheets are fixed and thus the tightness/looseness of the sheets is a result of the height of the yard.  I fixed the issue but don't have photos yet. 

 

Here is a view from the front. Also you can see that the masts are perfectly aligned vertically. 

1831189111_loweranduppertopmastfromforeward.jpg.a800325af28156e45ff05d4dc51fcadf.jpgstarboard.jpg.c019bcd4407e4502117797136069bb61.jpg

476199964_upperandlowertopmastaft.jpg.55ae6072835aa92d3f3c51fa472796ca.jpg

upper topsail sheets.  These are fixed at the top.  they don't look as good as this magnification, but it was the best I could do especially with the sails rigged as they are.476199964_upperandlowertopmastaft.jpg.55ae6072835aa92d3f3c51fa472796ca.jpg1248323889_uppertopsailsheetonforetop.jpg.589862e7948a855406f249f23ae5b452.jpg

 

A shot of the saddle truss and iron saddle strap.  Of course my version of the iron saddle strap is made from copper, but once it is painted it will look fine.  The truss isn't perfect, but considering they will be hard to view with all of the lines running along and  behind the mast.  I made the saddle strap so that the yard can be placed into position on the mast and the saddle strap will "lock" into the saddle truss and then can be glued to permanently secure the two parts together.385790622_detailofthesadleandtheiron(copper)strap.jpg.cc0ac5ac52633b4da6357af55b71ac42.jpg

Fairleads are starting to fill up.  Rigging the lines to the pins is a real pain with the course set and braced over as far as it it.  Close hauled is a pain.652479957_starboardfairleads.jpg.25ae7fc9b680bbd856e289680214ee59.jpg

thanks for looking !

Marc

 

Edited by keelhauled

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hi everybody  I am building the Cutty Sark from  Mantua and I am just starting the rigging part making the mast etc . The plans I have are very limited for my level so where can I buy additionals plans to help me ? thanks for your answers .

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