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DonInAZ

Chesapeake Bay Crabbing Skiff by DonInAZ - FINISHED - Midwest Products - Scale 1:20, My first wooden ship build - Small

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On 2/10/2020 at 9:46 AM, Mahuna said:

When securing a knot, it's better to use matte medium or a diluted white glue to avoid the 'plastic' look

I tried the Liquitex Acrylic Matte Medium last night on a piece of Syren rope and I checked it this morning. It didn't discolor the beige color of the rope like the CA did. It was practically transparent. I also liked that it had some stiffness to it but was still flexible and it wasn't shiny and very stiff like the CA. I think this will be my go to glue for knots and rigging for the time being.

 

Bob

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Working on the sprit block and cleat assembly.

What I've done here is to place some tension on the line to remove the slack and then I applied some fabric stiffener to it to hopefully encourage it to hold its shape.

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1 hour ago, BobG said:

I tried the Liquitex Acrylic Matte Medium last night on a piece of Syren rope and I checked it this morning. It didn't discolor the beige color of the rope like the CA did. It was practically transparent. I also liked that it had some stiffness to it but was still flexible and it wasn't shiny and very stiff like the CA. I think this will be my go to glue for knots and rigging for the time being.

 

Bob

Well this one is almost in the books but one of my primary goals when building my Chesapeake Bay Flattie is going to be solving the riddle of gluing rigging line.  In fact there will be some experimenting on some scrap pieces happening very soon.  I'll give the Liquitex a shot as part of that effort.

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On 3/1/2020 at 12:22 PM, DonInAZ said:

Well this one is almost in the books but one of my primary goals when building my Chesapeake Bay Flattie is going to be solving the riddle of gluing rigging line.  In fact there will be some experimenting on some scrap pieces happening very soon.  I'll give the Liquitex a shot as part of that effort.

After playing around with the Liquitex a little more while nearly going crazy trying to strop some blocks, I find that it looks great but doesn't have a lot of grab when you want it to hold tight. I think it will good to use once the knots are tied and over small sections of serving. I'm using some Titebond Translucent glue when I need to glue a rope to the end of a block and when gluing two strands of rope together side by side before making a small serving on them. I think everyone is just going to have to experiment and find out what works best for them.

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2 hours ago, DonInAZ said:

My block in the above pic is COMPLETELY WRONG! 

I spent several hours yesterday trying different methods and glues to strop blocks for my Medway Longboat build. I did the very same thing when I finished my first block!

 

I'm back to using some medium viscosity CA to glue the rope to the bottom and top of the blocks and then to a couple of places on the thimble where the rope goes around it. I used just small dots of the medium viscosity CA so that it doesn't soak the light colored rope and discolor it. Thin CA soaks through the rope quickly a leaves a shiny sheen. I'm thinking of using a CA kicker also to get an instant set and make the process go a bit faster. I'll try that today. The trickiest part is whipping the small section between the thimble and the block with some polyester thread. When that's done I coated the whipping with Liquitex Acrylic Matte Medium. I finally finished two that I'm satisfied with. A lot of time goes into making the hooks, thimbles and stropping the blocks and I'm glad I don't have a whole lot of them to do!

 

Bob

 

 

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That's a really nice looking block Bob!  I hope mine looks at least half that good...

I went to Hobby Lobby last night and purchased some brass tube to try my hand at making some thimbles.  We'll see how that goes.

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Thanks, that was my best effort. I'm finding that all the tasks involved in rigging are very challenging for me. I hope it's because I'm new to it because I'm very, very S-L-O-W!

I tried Chuck's method of making thimbles by cutting 1/16" brass tubing and then using a center punch to round the edges. I couldn't do it. I couldn't cut the tubing without squishing it and I tried several ways. Finally, I was able to get a couple of decent pieces cut by scoring the tubing with an Xacto knife and carefully bending it off but, when I tried to use the punch to round the edges, they went flying off into space. So I gave up on that method.

 

Then I got the idea of laying the tubing down on a flat surface and filing it down to it's widest diameter which essentially opens it up in half and leaves you with a slender, U-shaped piece of brass. Then I used some round-nosed pliers to bend a section into a circle and then cut it off. Finally, I blackened the brass with Jax Blackening Solution. They are far from being as uniform and nice as what Chuck makes but they'll have to do for me. 

 

Here's a photo of the brass tubing after I filed it down and the thimbles before I blackened them. The photos are so enlarged that they look awful but, in actuality, they are so small and, when blackened and stropped, they look OK.

 

 

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I use thin wall brass tubing for tuning slides in the wooden pennywhistles that I make. The best way I've found to cut it is with a razor saw and miter box. You'll have rough edges but they're easily filed with needle files.

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I tried using my miter box and the saw with the most teeth that I have but it wasn't cutting it very well and I thought it was probably just dulling my saw. Is your razor saw different than the typical fine toothed, hobby saw? 

 

The tubing I was using was KS brand 1/16" brass tubing. It's pretty stiff. Is the tubing you use thinner than the regular 1/16" tubing you find in hobby stores? If so, what sizes does it come in and where do you get it?

 

Thanks,

Bob 

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22 minutes ago, BobG said:

I couldn't cut the tubing without squishing it and I tried several ways.

I haven’t tried to cut tubing (and this is wasteful) but you might be able to stick a small cheap dowel in the tubing to prevent the squishing.

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6 hours ago, VTHokiEE said:

I haven’t tried to cut tubing (and this is wasteful) but you might be able to stick a small cheap dowel in the tubing to prevent the squishing.

I've seen that method used on a youtube video. The guy inserted a smaller piece of brass into the tubing and then scored before breaking it off pretty cleanly.

 

I also just got this KS mini-tube cutter yesterday. It's just a miniature of the typical, regular sized pipe cutter. It says it is supposed to cut 1/16" to 5/8." I just tried it and it works very well on the 1/16" tubing. It wouldn't cut it all the way through since it won't clamp down that small but it did score it nicely and then you can carefully break it off by holding it close to the score line with with pliers and using another set of pliers to break it off. I'm not sure how well that would work for cutting very short pieces like those you need for thimbles though. I'll give it a try and see what I can do with them.

 

Bob 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The KS min-tube cutter works pretty well. I like it. It scored the 1/16" tubing perfectly and I was able to break off tiny pieces for making thimbles. The problem I had though is that I can not get the edges of the pieces rounded nicely with the punch set that I have. I have a nice set of mini center punches made by Starret. I couldn't get a uniform bend around the edges so the thimble ended up lop-sided or it split. Maybe I need a punch like Chuck uses. It's also really difficult to try land hold the tiny brass pieces steady while using the punches on them. They often went flying into some unknown place in the room.

 

Bob

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19 hours ago, BobG said:

 

 

I tried using my miter box and the saw with the most teeth that I have but it wasn't cutting it very well and I thought it was probably just dulling my saw. Is your razor saw different than the typical fine toothed, hobby saw? 

 

The tubing I was using was KS brand 1/16" brass tubing. It's pretty stiff. Is the tubing you use thinner than the regular 1/16" tubing you find in hobby stores? If so, what sizes does it come in and where do you get it?

 

 

Thanks,

Bob 

 

I use a regular mini miter box and razor saw. It occurs to me that this method may not be good for you. I'm cutting diameters around 1/2" and lengths from 3/4" to 1 1/2" which are a lot easier to handle than tiny sections of 1/16" tubing. The dowel in the bore might help if you can find the dowel,or the next size smaller telescoping tubing.

Just a few random ideas which just occurred to me and I haven't had any need to test..Flaring the tubing,if you go that route,might be easier to do if you anneal the tubing to soften it. Heat it red hot with a torch and let it cool.

You could easily make a flaring tool to your exact specs by grinding a common building nail to size and smoothing the tip. Try putting the thimble on a block of wood as you tap the tool in,and the tool should hold it in place and keep it from flying.

I have to say that I greatly admire the amount of work you've put into this boat and the dedication to authenticity that you, and most other builders on the forum, display. On my current, and first build, a Constitution cross section, I'm nowhere as dedicated and at this stage of my building journey I don't really care. It's a warmup project for my next which will be the Pride of Baltimore II and I'll be more interested in authenticity on her,especially since I can easily go and visit the actual ship.  Keep up the great work, and I look forward to seeing your Flattie.

 

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I tried last night to make a couple of thimbles... failed miserably!  I was trying the hole punch method but I suspect the tube I was using has walls that are too thick.  I need to get some smaller tubing and then I will try the method of filing half the tube off and bending it around as Bob showed above.  When I get something worth showing, I'll post some pics...

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5 hours ago, Brewerpaul said:

Just a few random ideas which just occurred to me and I haven't had any need to test..Flaring the tubing,if you go that route,might be easier to do if you anneal the tubing to soften it. Heat it red hot with a torch and let it cool.

You could easily make a flaring tool to your exact specs by grinding a common building nail to size and smoothing the tip. Try putting the thimble on a block of wood as you tap the tool in,and the tool should hold it in place and keep it from flying.

Thanks for this info, Paul. I'll try making a punch from a nail. I'll check out your Constitution cross section too. I've been admiring some cross sections lately. I see that Model Shipways has a new Constitution cross section available now. I also have the MS Pride of Baltimore II. It was the first kit I ever bought but, when I opened it, I realized that I needed a lot more experience to do her justice. I'm currently building the Medway Longboat from Syren. I've learned a ton from it. The rigging has slowed me to a snail's pace though.

 

Bob

 

 

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On 3/3/2020 at 1:14 PM, BobG said:

 

That Model Shipways looks very impressive and a lot more historically correct than my Mamoli. For one thing,as has been pointed out somewhere on the forum, the Constitution has 4 decks while the Mamoli kit only has three. That was probably a good call for the smaller scale, but 4 will really be better. I'm OK with what I have. I mainly want to get some experience with ship modeling and end up with a presentable ship like model to display. My biggest phobia over the years has been getting deadeyes,shrouds and ratlines to work, and this will give me one mast's worth to learn on.

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4 minutes ago, Brewerpaul said:

My biggest phobia over the years has been getting deadeyes,shrouds and ratlines to work, and this will give me one mast's worth to learn on.

I think a cross section is a great way to delve into complex rigging without getting too overwhelmed and burn out on it.

 

Bob

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Ok, so I just did a simple block with a piece of black wire for this build.  I may try to do the whole thimble thing with the brass tube at some point down the road but I need to get this one in the books...it's only been 5 yrs since I started this build log after all 😕.

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So in the above picture you can see the mast is glued in place and the sprit is attached.  All that is left to do is coil up the lose rigging lines and glue the tiller on (it was only a friction fit thus far)

 

I bought some small bits to try scratch building a couple of crab traps for detail.   We'll see how that goes.

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51 minutes ago, DonInAZ said:

Ok, so I just did a simple block with a piece of black wire for this build.

I think that's a smart decision and it looks good to me. Learning how to do the rigging on my Medway Longboat build has slowed my progress down to a snail's pace. My patience is being severely tested but I'm determined to hang in there as I fumble my way forward.

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Quick update:  So for the last few days I've been working on coiling up the loose lines for the mainsheet, the halyard and the downhaul.  I was very surprised at how difficult a task it is to get these lines to look "right" as they are laying on the deck or hanging from a stanchion.  I actually ended up removing and re-threading the mainsheet entirely after 1 failed attempt to get to lay down in a way that looked natural.  I'm still not 100% satisfied with how it looks but I'm not sure I'm going to try and change it at this point.

I think I might have mentioned in a previous post that I suffer from "essential tremor".  This makes fine work EXTREMELY difficult and it was particularly frustrating when working with these lines as I'd get something just where I wanted and my tremor would alter or move it before I could let go.  Anyway my point is not to make excuses, but wanted to share with those of you following this build why this last (seemingly minor) step is taking me so long.

As it stands this morning while writing this, I have only the downhaul line left to set in place so it should not be much longer.  Of course I'll post some pics when it's completed.

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On March 18, 2015, I posted my first entry in this build log... Just a few days shy of 5 years later, the project that was supposed to be my basic intro into wood model ship building is finally completed !!!

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A lot of things happened in my life over the course of this build...some good...some not so good, but I enjoyed every minute I spent working on it.  Many times it was a refuge from those life events. 

I have also immensely enjoyed my interactions with this community of amazing modelers and I want to thank each and every one of you for your advice and support!

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Congratulations! That is truly a first class build, worthy of a very experienced builder. The attention to detail you've put into what is a pretty simple watercraft is inspirational. I look forward to further build logs from you!

I spotted a little hypodermic syringe and needle in one picture. Did you use that for glue? I'm using a 3cc syringe with a much larger needle (18g,1 1/2",blunt tip) for plain white glue and it's a terrific help.

I can make only one tiny critique. That brass ring at the bow of your boat is a bit funky. The cut ends looks like it was made with a diagonal pliers which mashed the wire, and the ends don't meet well. Easy fix would be to rotate the ring into the hole in the wood so the join is buried.  That's just a small quibble though, don't sweat it!

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1 minute ago, Brewerpaul said:

I spotted a little hypodermic syringe and needle in one picture. Did you use that for glue?

Yes indeed.  I found it invaluable for applying the scenic cement and fabric stiffener (both are on the watery side) to the various lines.

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Great job, Don! That is a fine model indeed and a testament to your skill and determination.

 

Cheers!

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1 hour ago, Brewerpaul said:

I can make only one tiny critique. That brass ring at the bow of your boat is a bit funky. The cut ends looks like it was made with a diagonal pliers which mashed the wire, and the ends don't meet well. Easy fix would be to rotate the ring into the hole in the wood so the join is buried.  That's just a small quibble though, don't sweat it!

Thank you. It was my intention to hide that joint inside the hole.  It must have worked it's way out while I was working on the other bits.  I'll get that corrected before she goes on display.  I upload most of my pics straight from my phone and often times, I miss little issues like that until I see my post on an actual monitor.  That dog hair that showed up on one of the pics in my rigging posts was another example of that.

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Beautiful model, Don. Well done! I love all types of small boats and working boats and yours is a fine example of how well they can be done and interesting they are. I think they are an underrepresented genre of the ship modeling community. I'm curious as to what you used the scenic cement for on your build?

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