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Probably the dumbest planking question ever....


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I've never seen it anywhere so I need to ask....

 

On a POF, why do a lot of builders do the interior first?   Is this just mis-perception on my part... or...?  I would think the exterior would be better first since a variety of clamps could be used without damaging the interior planks.  Then the interior could be planked using spales instead of clamps.

 

I hope someone can set me straight before I proceed much further doing the exterior first.

Edited by mtaylor

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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this must be the planking question,  I hear tell about :)    well.........let's see........hmmmmmmm.   I guess it would depend on the build.   for me,  I like to do the hull first,   mostly for the reason you stated.    I use pins mostly,  and I clamp very little........if I'm able to bend the planking,  so much the better.   if a deck platform is to be used,  sometimes planking before faring can be a good thing,  but I wouldn't do a seal coat until the hull is planked.

 

on a build like yours Mark......I'm sure you left provision for the deck beams........plank your hull  :)

I yam wot I yam!

finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build

Billing T78 Norden

 

in dry dock:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch

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Mark:

I have always planked the outside first, but that is how I learned to do it. It just seems the natural way to do it. I can see adding clamps and stringers on the inside beforehand to stiffen the hull, but past that, I do not know of a reason to plank the inside first.

 

Russ

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Neither can I.  But let me ask an even dumber question ---- what was the practice on the real ships of the period?

Augie

 

Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64

 

Previous Builds :

 

US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery)

Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988

Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976

Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956

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I've only planked two models, it was easier to do the deck before putting on the side planks, sanding off the rough edges.

Casey

 

"I drank what?" - Socrates

 

Current Builds:  

                                  

Finished Builds: 

 

Future Builds:        

  • Mamoli Golden Hind
  • Mamoli Black Prince
  • AL Swift
     

 

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Thanks gentleman.   I guess I'm not doing it wrong or doing it right for the wrong reasons then.  ;)   This is just one of those questions that's always sat in the back corner of my brain and had me wondering.

 

 

Augie,

Outside first, as I recall.  I've heard reasons and they all made sense.  Weather, stiffen things up so the beams, etc. allow the wood to season more on the outside. 

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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I have read a lot of articles covering POF techniques and I can't recall any where the ceiling was applied first. But in most of them - the outside planking was completely or partially omitted to show the frames. 

 

Russ exactly stated my thoughts on how it should be done.

 

In real practice, I think it was also done as Russ stated.

One - I think the outside planking was thru doweled and thru nailed.  The inside planking would be messed up if was present.

Two - in many vessels, the space between the frames was filled with rock salt as the ceiling went up, so the planking would need to be there.

 For models

I am of the Underhill school of belt and suspenders ( glue and dowels for all joining ).   In this case, the planking is held by lil pins with hutchcocks instead of clamps - the pin holes being later enlarged to trunnel diameter.  It does mean that the lil pin locations need to match the final trunnel pattern.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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I can only speak for my current Emma C. Berry build - the instructions called for doing the interior ceiling before the exterior.  I debated, but found it made sense - in order to get the exterior planking correct, the covering board along the top of the frames needs to be installed.  This, in turn, necessitates adding the deck beams first.  Once the deck beams are in place, working space on the interior is very restricted.

 

As to "real world" practice, I have seen both approaches described.

Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus

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In this case, the planking is held by lil pins with hutchcocks instead of clamps - the pin holes being later enlarged to trunnel diameter.  It does mean that the lil pin locations need to match the final trunnel pattern.

 

Umm... what's a hutchcock?  Inquiring minds want to know!

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It is a small piece of wood (end cuts/ scrap usually) at the end of the pin.  Just pinning a plank to a frame is good for locating it, but it does not apply much downward clamping pressure. If you use the pinhead to apply the pressure, a dent larger the the trunnel is often made.  If the pin is thru doweled, the piece of wood is between the pinhead and the plank.  If the pin hole is shallow, the pin is bent above the wood piece to apply the pressure. 

If you want to go old school, the wood piece is split off and the pin nipped at the plank surface.  You then have brass trunnels.  If you want  wood or bamboo trunnels, the whole hutchcock is removed and the pin hole bored to match the trunnel diameter.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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