jdbradford Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share #31 Posted July 18, 2015 After sanding and filling, sanding and filling, I sanded and filled some more. Then I primed, filled and final sanded before getting started on the 2nd layer of planking. mrshanks, mtaylor and DocBlake 3 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocBlake Posted July 18, 2015 Share #32 Posted July 18, 2015 Great progress, Jeff. Good job on the planking and finishing, jdbradford 1 Quote Dave Click on images in posts to view them in full resolution! Click on the builds below and link to the log. Current Builds: -Gaff-Rigged Sloop, 1/4 Scale (3" = 1') -Chapman Water Hoy 1768 by DocBlake - Scratch Build - 1:48 scale -Hannah - 1:32 scale, Scratch-Built Plank-on-Frame Admiralty style -Generic Sharpie by DocBlake. 3/4" = 1' scale. NRG plans. -Fair American 1780 by DocBlake - Lauck Street Shipyard - 1/48 scale - POF -Independence 1775 by DocBlake - Artesania Latina - 5/16" scale -HMS Triton Cross Section by DocBlake - 1/24 scale Completed Builds: -Bomb Vessel Granado 1742 Cross Section - 1:32 Scale Scratch Build -British Capstan circa 1777 by DocBlake - FINISHED - 1:16 Scale -HMS Blandford - Cross Section - Scratch Build -1/32 Scale -17th Century Battle Station by DocBlake - HMS Mordaunt - 1:32 -17th Century Naval Cannon - 1:12 Scale -Royal Navy Ship of the Line Cross Section by DocBlake - (Mamoli's "Constitution") - 1:93 scale -Armed Virginia Sloop 1768, 1/48 scale. -Virginia Pilot Boat "Swift", 1805, 1/50 scale -18th Century Naval Battle Station, 1/24 scale -Armed Virginia Sloop 1768 "Patrick Henry", 1/32 scale, Lauck Street Shipyard, POF, Admiralty Style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share #33 Posted July 18, 2015 What would you all recommend as I plank the second layer in regards to not having a rabbet joint available? Jeff Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share #34 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Also, after discussions with Bob Hunt, I removed the primer from the open area on the starboard side. I was not planning on leaving the primer on the exposed framework, I just did not like the look of the raw exposed MDF material that was supplied with the kit. I suppose I could have attempted to recreate the frames using some hard wood, but I don't currently own the skills needed to transfer the information from the drawing into software to create the proper shape. Also, I could use some assistance with a necessary modification to the height of the bulwark. I need to add another row of planking so that I can frame the gun ports. When using a test gun and carriage, the barrel comes very close to the top of the bulwark as it is currently. I am not sure how to proceeed with the adding of "stanchions" to provide the support for an additional row of planking. And second, I am unclear how to get the proper measurements for the gun port openings transferred from the plans to the model. Here is an example from the practicum showing the need to add another row of planking, but I could not find instructions on how to lay out the stanchions or where they actually needed to go. Jeff Edited July 19, 2015 by jdbradford Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocBlake Posted July 19, 2015 Share #35 Posted July 19, 2015 Jeff: Are you sure the cannon is in proper scale? Many kits have parts that are grossly wrong scale-wise. The practicum suggests adding another bulwark plank, which you can do. But realize it will change the sheer profile and other relationships on the ship. If the gun is out of scale, replacing the cannons may be the better option. If you plan to add another plank, lay out the gun port locations (the plans should help you locate these in relationship to another part of the model; ( 6 mm aft of the aft edge of bulkhead #6 as an example). Lay out the framing and the new stanchions for the gun ports. Then add a stanchion next to each bulkhead between the ports and all the way to the bow and the stern, so the plank has support between each port also. Hope this helps wq3296 1 Quote Dave Click on images in posts to view them in full resolution! Click on the builds below and link to the log. Current Builds: -Gaff-Rigged Sloop, 1/4 Scale (3" = 1') -Chapman Water Hoy 1768 by DocBlake - Scratch Build - 1:48 scale -Hannah - 1:32 scale, Scratch-Built Plank-on-Frame Admiralty style -Generic Sharpie by DocBlake. 3/4" = 1' scale. NRG plans. -Fair American 1780 by DocBlake - Lauck Street Shipyard - 1/48 scale - POF -Independence 1775 by DocBlake - Artesania Latina - 5/16" scale -HMS Triton Cross Section by DocBlake - 1/24 scale Completed Builds: -Bomb Vessel Granado 1742 Cross Section - 1:32 Scale Scratch Build -British Capstan circa 1777 by DocBlake - FINISHED - 1:16 Scale -HMS Blandford - Cross Section - Scratch Build -1/32 Scale -17th Century Battle Station by DocBlake - HMS Mordaunt - 1:32 -17th Century Naval Cannon - 1:12 Scale -Royal Navy Ship of the Line Cross Section by DocBlake - (Mamoli's "Constitution") - 1:93 scale -Armed Virginia Sloop 1768, 1/48 scale. -Virginia Pilot Boat "Swift", 1805, 1/50 scale -18th Century Naval Battle Station, 1/24 scale -Armed Virginia Sloop 1768 "Patrick Henry", 1/32 scale, Lauck Street Shipyard, POF, Admiralty Style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share #36 Posted July 22, 2015 As you know Dave, I am using Bob's practicum, so I have started laying the deck planking. Then I can take my own gun carriage to see how much Bulwark needs to be added. Jeff GuntherMT, mrshanks and rafine 3 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuntherMT Posted July 22, 2015 Share #37 Posted July 22, 2015 Coming along nicely Jeff. Quote Brian Mystery project coming soon! Current build - Medway Longboat Complete - Armed Virginia Sloop Complete - Carmen (First Build) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share #38 Posted July 23, 2015 What do you folks use to secure the deck planks while glue is drying as you get closer to the beam? The outside edge. My clamps are getting to a point where they cannot grip the bulkheads and press on the deck planking. Jeff Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuntherMT Posted July 24, 2015 Share #39 Posted July 24, 2015 Jeff, both of my models so far have had a false deck, but for pretty much all my planking (both hull and deck) I just used regular wood glue and held the planks in place by hand for 60 seconds or so until they would stay on their own. The trick (for me anyway) is to put a very thin coat of glue on the back of the plank, then let that tack up slightly while I'm applying the glue to the surface the plank will bond to. Then put the plank on and apply firm pressure, and it grabs almost like fast CA, although without the permanence, in that I could pull it off and relocate it if I didn't wait too long. Not sure that will work for you on your bulkheads, but that's the system I used for my first planking of the hull, everywhere except where the most extreme bends were, and for every single plank on the deck. mrshanks 1 Quote Brian Mystery project coming soon! Current build - Medway Longboat Complete - Armed Virginia Sloop Complete - Carmen (First Build) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuntherMT Posted July 24, 2015 Share #40 Posted July 24, 2015 You could also try using the pin collar clamp things that I got from MicroMark - http://www.micromark.com/pin-collar-set,9549.html They should work right up to the next to last plank. I haven't yet found them anywhere else, but they are quite useful in my opinion. Quote Brian Mystery project coming soon! Current build - Medway Longboat Complete - Armed Virginia Sloop Complete - Carmen (First Build) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share #41 Posted July 24, 2015 I am going to try and order some of those Brian. Here is my deck after I finished the planking. Those last couple of pieces were a real pain. They may as well been split and re-split toothpicks. LOL Jeff mtaylor, mrshanks, rafine and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share #42 Posted July 26, 2015 I put together the carriages for the cannon so that I could check the Bulwark height. I have broken off 4 of the carriage axles as I tried to sand them down for the trucks to fit. They are so very small. Anyone have any ideas about these? Jeff Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafine Posted July 26, 2015 Share #43 Posted July 26, 2015 Jeff, I replaced the kit carriages with appropriately sized carriage kits from The Lumberyard (www.dlumberyard,com). They are better wood. You might also look at Chuck's (Syren) nice carriage kits to see if any are sized right. Bob jdbradford 1 Quote Current builds on MSW: HMS Winchelsea 1:48: Medway Longboat 1:24 Prior builds on MSW: Schooner Halifax: Lumberyard 1/48 semi-scratch; Cutter Cheerful 1:48; Granado: Caldercraft 1:64; Frigate Essex: Kitbashed Model Shipways kit; Triton Cross Section 1:48; Kingfisher from Lauckstreet kit; Syren: Model shipways kit ;Kitbashed Fair American: Model Shipways;Prince de Neufchatel: Model shipways 1:64 Civil War Picket Boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryKap Posted July 26, 2015 Share #44 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Hi Jeff - I went with the low budget alternative - I removed the "axles" and glued the wheels directly to the carriages. It was good enough for me. You might try that approach and if you are not happy with the result, then pursue the option of buying better carriages. Good luck. <<Gary>> p.s. Something to be very cautious about - small changes in carriage / wheel dimensions can greatly affect the position of the cannon barrel relative to the gun port. I found myself sanding off the bottoms of front wheels to get the cannon barrels properly positioned. You need to do a LOT of test fitting as you proceed to build your cannons. Edited July 26, 2015 by GaryKap jdbradford, mrshanks and wq3296 3 Quote current build: SYREN nearly done: Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham future builds: Emma C. Berry completed builds: Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share #45 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) When the axles broke off both with and without wheels, I did glue the pieces directly back to the carriages. So far, I have finished 7 carriages and they look okay. I may look at ordering replacements from one of those places. But, I am not sure what size I would need to order. I read on Captain Jerry's Fair American build that the plans were actually something like 1:55 instead of 1:48. Any thoughts on what size to order? Jeff Edited July 27, 2015 by jdbradford Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryKap Posted July 27, 2015 Share #46 Posted July 27, 2015 Jeff - You might want to contact Chuck Passaro at Syren Ship Model Company and ask him if he has a gun carriage kit that would work for you. Give him as many dimensions as you can and tell him what you want to do. Decide whether you want to use the brass cannon barrels supplied with the kit or purchase new ones to go with the carriages. While you are at it, you might consider the additional blocks you will need to rig the cannons. (four per gun) and order these at the same time. Other items you might consider ordering are the shroud cleats (I found these difficult to make on my own), and also his wooden cleats. So here I am - spending your money for you. Well, good luck and please keep us informed of your progress. <<Gary>> jdbradford 1 Quote current build: SYREN nearly done: Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham future builds: Emma C. Berry completed builds: Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share #47 Posted July 28, 2015 I finished putting together the carriages. I am using one to test the current Bulkhead height so I can see if I need to add an extra plank. It looks like I need another row. Here are the carriages. They turned out fair, the quality is lacking and if I want to rig them, I will need to order more blocks. Jeff mtaylor, rafine and mrshanks 3 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuntherMT Posted July 28, 2015 Share #48 Posted July 28, 2015 Your canon you are using for your test is pointing at the sky, it doesn't look like you've got the quoin in place, might want to do that before making a final decision on the bulkhead and gunport heights. Quote Brian Mystery project coming soon! Current build - Medway Longboat Complete - Armed Virginia Sloop Complete - Carmen (First Build) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share #49 Posted July 28, 2015 My powder monkey stole the quoin. And, the gunner is trying to hit that ship way out there. LOL The practicum does not show much on the building of these. I looked at the drawing in the book provided by MS, but they reference a drawing on the plan that I do not see. Thanks, Jeff mtaylor 1 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wq3296 Posted July 28, 2015 Share #50 Posted July 28, 2015 Greetings jd... I am on the bell lap with my FA and have encountered the same challenges with the gun carriages. To begin with, I did not raise the bulwarks as, evidently, your practicum advised. I built mine per the drawings because I believe that was the right way to do it. I modified the carriages so that they would fit the gun ports - not the other way around. Yes, I had to glue the trucks to the carriages as Gary suggested to you. In addition, I deepened the trunion notches so that the barrels would sit slightly lower in the carriages and I set the quoins so that the barrel angle was closer to level instead of pointing skyward. Finally, I lightly sanded the front trucks so that the front of the carriages would sit a little lower. The net result was that the guns are properly framed in the gun ports, and the ports are sized per the drawings. In my opinion, there is no need to buy different gun carriages (which may present other challenges) or to raise the bulkhead elevation by adding another plank. Frankly, I am surprised a practicum would even recommend bastardizing the model in that way when other options exist. wq3296 GaryKap and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share #51 Posted July 29, 2015 That is a great suggestion wq, I shall try that first before other options. Here are a few pictures from the practicum build. Jeff mrshanks and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wq3296 Posted July 29, 2015 Share #52 Posted July 29, 2015 Greetings jd... I forgot to mention: I used brass rod for the gun trunions. The rod I used had a slightly smaller dia. than the dowel provided in the kit. This also helps to lower the gun in the carriage. You can also trim the front carriage bulkhead to further flatten the angle of the gun. If you use the brass rod, the guns can be left in natural brass so they can "patina" naturally, which is what I did. I always leave brass guns natural, unless there is a reason (gun size, period correctness, etc.) to paint them black. wq3296 jdbradford 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryKap Posted July 29, 2015 Share #53 Posted July 29, 2015 Jeff - your carriages don't look bad to me. One advantage to doing the gun carriage rigging is that it hides most of the "adjustment" that might be needed to the front trucks. I think I used 1/8 inch blocks for this. And I will remind you, the kit includes tiny brass handles for the quoins. To make mine, I cut wedges from a strip of mahogany 1/8" x 1/16" and finished them with wipe on poly. If you do need to deepen the trunion notches as wq3296 and I did, the cap squares will mask this nicely. I used the brass rod that came with the kit for my trunions, and finished the guns with brass darkening solution that I purchased at a local antique store. But they also look handsome left in natural brass. <<Gary>> mtaylor, jdbradford and wq3296 3 Quote current build: SYREN nearly done: Fair American, Benjamin W. Latham future builds: Emma C. Berry completed builds: Rattlesnake, Newsboy, Sultana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share #54 Posted July 30, 2015 I have begun to deepen the trunion notches, and even then the gun would have to point down some below the level of the horizon to clear the top of the gunport. I will try to post some pictures when I get back home this evening. If I end up adding 1 row of planking to the model, my main question is what to do about the stem area. Thanks, Jeff mrshanks 1 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wq3296 Posted July 30, 2015 Share #55 Posted July 30, 2015 Greetings jd... Well, perhaps you haven't removed enough material yet (Gary, feel free to jump in) and you might want to swap out your dowel trunions for brass rod, as has been suggested. Also, see message #52 above for other mods that might help you out. All I can say is that you can make it work without adding to the bulwark height. I checked my guns again, and the muzzles all have an upward, albeit slight, angle after all is said and done. In my opinion, you may create more problems for yourself by adding an additional plank. Just snuggle those guns down as low into the carriages as possible. wq3296 mrshanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrshanks Posted July 30, 2015 Share #56 Posted July 30, 2015 Hi Jeff. I agree with wq3296. Adding a plank to the bulwark would be my absolutely last resort. Mike Quote Mike Shanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share #57 Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Okay, I will continue to work on the carriage some more as I test. I am using the brass rod (look at the top pick showing the test cannon) that comes with the kit. I do not see any dowels in the kit small enough. I had some fairly small dowel in my wood pile, but I spent way too much time trying to sand down the diameter to fit the cannon. The dowel would need to be about the diameter of a round toothpick to fit. Jeff Edited July 30, 2015 by jdbradford Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share #58 Posted August 9, 2015 Okay, I got my gun ports framed and the carriages sanded down. I have not cut the brass rod for the trunnions yet, but it is looking like I can get by without adding another row of planking. I have sanded down the interior part of the bulwark bulkheads in preparation for planking. Jeff GuntherMT, rafine, Philthy and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share #59 Posted September 13, 2015 Well, after framing and testing, I did end up adding another row of planking and relocating the gunports. I also painted the bulwarks and opened up the deck for the hatch combings. I think it looks okay. Jeff rafine, GuntherMT and GaryKap 3 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbradford Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share #60 Posted September 16, 2015 After reading many of the other build logs on this great site, I have found myself to be amiss in thanking everyone for the likes and the kind helpful words in regards to my build. As I move along to the next steps I look forward to the great advice and tips from you folks. Jeff Matt D 1 Quote Current Build: Model Shipways MS2015 - Fair American Kit bash Previous Build: J-Class Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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