dafi Posted June 9, 2015 Share #1 Posted June 9, 2015 The false keel was fastened by vertical copper staples. At what distances were those placed? Cheers, DAniel mtaylor and robin b 2 Quote To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/ See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/ Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit) and other useful bits. http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 10, 2015 Share #2 Posted June 10, 2015 Good question. I've not come across any specification, but think 18" to 24" would be reasonable. robin b and dafi 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted June 10, 2015 Share #3 Posted June 10, 2015 The false keel was there as a "throw away" bumper? If the ship ran aground on a moderate slope, it was to come off so the ship could back free? Seems to me, it would need to be fastened just enough to stay when subject to the forces of water, but not offer too much resistance to a real shear force. I would think that every ship's captain and especially the NCO responsible for the ship's structure would have their own opinion on how to fasten it. Canute, dafi and robin b 3 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafi Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted June 10, 2015 Thank you Druxey and Jaager, the staples of the Vic are still in place and give a good impression, but I found no picture that could reveal the dimensions. As the Vic has two false keels, one as build and the other added probably around 1800 one has to also to take care, what staples are for which keel. http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=hms+victory+keel&gbv=2&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ved=0CBQQsARqFQoTCOKg877dhMYCFcy3FAodwUkAaw&tbm=isch Luckily these are about the only original staples of the golden age of sails :-) Cheers, DAniel mtaylor, AON, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/ See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/ Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit) and other useful bits. http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wq3296 Posted June 10, 2015 Share #5 Posted June 10, 2015 Greetings dafi, Who is John Gault? wq3296 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafi Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted June 10, 2015 This one ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gault ... or this one ? http://www.greatdreams.com/blog-2012-2/dee-blog279.html XXXDAn Quote To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/ See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/ Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit) and other useful bits. http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trippwj Posted June 10, 2015 Share #7 Posted June 10, 2015 Maybe this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Gault Quote WayneNeither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.Epictetus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wq3296 Posted June 10, 2015 Share #8 Posted June 10, 2015 ...from the novel Atlas Shrugged. Whenever someone didn't know the answer to a question they would say Who is John Galt? Same as answering How high is up? wq3296 mtaylor and trippwj 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 10, 2015 Share #9 Posted June 10, 2015 The photos seem to indicate a spacing of about 12", judged from the length of the staples. mtaylor, Canute and dafi 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted June 11, 2015 Share #10 Posted June 11, 2015 I would say they are spaced from 3 to 5 feet, judged from keel size... I think that the space can be a ratio of keel square, like other things (scarphs, etc) Alex Canute, robin b and dafi 3 Quote Current build: HMS Sphynx, 20 gun ship launched in 1775 at Portsmouth, Hampshire. On the drawing board: HMS Anson, 64 gun third rate ship of the line, launched in 1781 at Plymouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 11, 2015 Share #11 Posted June 11, 2015 While I'm sure that staple spacing was calculated using some proportional formula, Alex, the photos I was looking at showed much closer spacing than you suggest. dafi and robin b 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafi Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share #12 Posted June 12, 2015 Also one can see a lot of staples missing. The staples of the first keel were flush in the surface, so the slots are still visible if one has a close look. Those of the first keel appear to be closer than those of the second one. Also the ones of the second one have different lengths: Into the "true" keel and into the first false one. I was looking quite close, but still difficult to see a pattern. DAniel Quote To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/ See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/ Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit) and other useful bits. http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted June 12, 2015 Share #13 Posted June 12, 2015 I have seen slots from missing staples, but are you sure that false keel was fastened with presented staples and missing staples at one time, or new presented staples are replacements for lost one, just moved and hammered in other place? Stalkart says, that "...In such ships as are not intended to be frequently in harbours where they ground, the false keel is slenderly secured..." from here Slenderly is like meagerly or sparingly, 12 inch spacing sounds more strong for me... I'm not sure, as I have not foung any rule for spacing til now... Alex dafi, mtaylor and druxey 3 Quote Current build: HMS Sphynx, 20 gun ship launched in 1775 at Portsmouth, Hampshire. On the drawing board: HMS Anson, 64 gun third rate ship of the line, launched in 1781 at Plymouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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