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KeithAug

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration

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Very nice and your stand is ingenious and I think is well suited for the yachts period. If I remember your first log entry said this was destined for your daughters window. I think it will look great in the window. However, if there is no UV protection on the glass I am afraid the sun will do a number on your wood and colors.

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Hi robnbill

 

It is still destined for my daughters flat - but we agreed it was better suited to an internal wall as it would be less vulnerable to accidental damage. I hadn't considered your point which is a good one.

 

Keith

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Hi Keith,

 

I'm building the same model and I am following your suggestions. I would appreciate it if you can answer a few questions to guide me.  This is my first static model but I have been modeling for 50+ years.

 

1.  When sanding down the balsa backing, do I sand it down so that the bulkheads are flush and the keel is sharp to a 'V'? I was thinking of retaining the keel's flat bottom and glueing triangular stock to keep the keel sharp and straight.

 

2.  Thinking ahead, how do I cut the planks so precisely to get the sharp 'V' profile that you had pictured in your build.

 

I am at the point of sanding down the hull but have a few more questions if you'll oblige me your guidance.

 

Sincerely,

Francis   

 

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Hello Francis

 

I am happy to help but I may need a bit more information to understand your questions. 

 

In terms of the balsa backing what I did was as follows:-

 

I initially didn't remove the scorched edges of the frames because I wanted to use them as a guide when sanding.

I then sanded the balsa back to the frames. On the fore and aft frames the sanding removes only some of the scorching. This because the curvature of the hull means that the frames themselves have to be flared. The trick is to leave a very thin line of scorching at the high edge of the frame.

 

See Photo - At this point the sanding of the balsa is complete.

 

post-17220-0-98668400-1464260022_thumb.jpg

 

On the middle frames (which have minimal flare) I sanded the backing until the scorching on the frames was lightly removed.

 

I'm not quite following your point re the sharp V on the keel. The bulb of the keel is a round shape which transitions to a sharp V as you move forward. Anyway I didn't find the need to leave it square and then glue on triangular stock. I just shaded the longitudinal frames to form the sharp V. 

 

To get the planking sharp at the keel I laid the planks with circa 1/4 inch overhang. I then sanded them back from the opposite side of the hull. Making sure that the sanding block was always parallel with the opposite side of the hull, and taking care not to remove more of the already sanded balsa / frames on that side. I then did the opposite when I had planked the other side.

 

The attached photo shows the frames sanded to a sharp v and the planks being attached with a overhang

 

post-17220-0-60507400-1464261716_thumb.jpg

 

I hope that makes sense, but if not get back to me.

 

I'm happy to answer any other questions.

 

Are you planning to do a building log - it would help me to understand your questions better and perhaps give some pre warning of issues you might be about to encounter.

 

Regards.

 

 

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Francis

 

I should add that their is more than one way to skin a cat and your option of leaving the fore keel frames square and then adding triangular stock is equally valid. If you look at my Altair link below you will see that it adopts the alternative method you suggest.

 

Regards

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Thanks Keith,
 
 I am having trouble attaching a couple of photos to show you where I am.  They are over the 2MB limit.  Is there a way of getting around this?

 

I am almost done with sanding the starboard side and have the port side as rough dragon scales.  I am inclined to use a triangle stock as a sanding guide for the forward portion of the hull till it flares and rounds out with the keel.  I will keep you posted.

 

I'd rather not start a new thread on the forum since I'll be using most of your techniques anyway.  I'd be happy to post pics if and when I can as a testament to your workmanship and guidance.

 

By the way, I followed you in building over the frame that is clamped onto a steel U-channel bar.  

 

Sincerely, Francis

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Hello Francis

 

I have never found a way around the 2MB limit other than resizing the image in the camera or cropping the image on the computer.

 

Keep me posted on your progress.

 

Regards

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First Planking.

 

The Amati instructions suggest planking the keel bulb first using the 2mm x 2mm strips - these being double the thickness of the standard planks. The instructions suggest that the bulb planking does not exceed a height of 3cm. The instructions then suggest starting the hull planking at deck level and tapering the ends of the planks towards stem and stern. Towards the middle of the hull the kit provides a double width frame on which to start the planks running fore and aft.

 

I wondered if I could make the first planking simpler and decided to try a different approach.

 

I started at deck level. The balsa backing has a number of advantages when planking - the first being that planks can be held in place by notice board pins while the glue dries. See photo.post-17220-0-60736400-1435091939_thumb.j

 

I proceeded adding planks until I had about 10 rows of planks in place. Because of the balsa backing the hull was already rigid and this allowed me to plank one side, rather that doing both sides simultaneously. Also I didn't need to worry about always starting the planks at the double width frame (I didn't actually fit it) and could stagger alternating layers of planks. This gave a smoother hull shape.

 

Having completed the the first 10 rows I used a piece of card to draw lines on the hull where subsequent rows would fall. This convinced me that I could proceed with further layers without the need to taper the planks to stem and stern. See photo.post-17220-0-55506600-1435093547_thumb.j

The next series of photos show progress.post-17220-0-92745800-1435093741_thumb.jpost-17220-0-27421900-1435093818_thumb.j

 

As the planking progressed the planks followed closely the lines drawn on the hull. As the planks reached the start of the keel the sharp angle of the bow started to become rounded as it blended into the bulb of the keel.  This became the obvious point at which to run 2 of the 2mm x 2mm "bulb planks" along the length of the keel, before proceeding with more of the hull planks. See photo. post-17220-0-75362500-1435093888_thumb.j

I found elastic bands very useful for holding the keel strips in place. Also because of the sharp curvature of the keel I did sand off the sides to make them trapezoidal rather than square.

 

Having completed several more hull planks the keel bulb curvature once again indicated that a further 2mm x 2mm strips need to be laid along the keel length. This process continued until the hull planking was almost complete. See photo.post-17220-0-05457000-1435094984_thumb.j

The black marking on the previous photograph shows the shape of the final closing plank. This was the only hull plank that I real had to shape.

 

Having completed one side the 2nd side was a repeat of the first.post-17220-0-80276400-1435095538_thumb.j

 

I wanted the final hull to be predominantly varnished mahogany and I knew that the quality of first planking had to be very good. I set myself the challenge of completing the first planking without using any filler. The next photo show the shaded hull (the elastic bands are temporally holding the deck in place). No filler was used and no breakthrough into the balsa backing occurred during sanding. See photo.post-17220-0-92886100-1435096236_thumb.j

 

In the next post I will cover attaching the deck.

Keith, please forgive me if I have already asked this question but today I got back to my build and immediately knew I needed to come to your build to refresh my memory.  

 

And now my dumb question: Did you have the deck in place when you began planking at the deck level?  (If you answered this in your post, I missed it.  I'm working on 3 hours of sleep right now...)

 

The reason I ask is I know my deck is not perfectly faired, symmetrically.  One side has a slight dip on the aft starboard section.  So I was thinking if I butt the planking up to the plywood deck, maybe I can make up for (or hide) that asymmetry.  

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Hello Julie welcome back.

 

Having completed the balsa backing I sanded it level with the deck frames. 

I did the first planking working from deck level to keel.

I then fitted and glued the deck in place.

I then fitted the deck edge plank.

I then sanded the 1st planking. The edges of the plywood deck and deck edge plank being sanded as I sanded the hull planking.

I then did the 2nd planking.

 

The advantage of this sequence is that the second planking comes all the way up to deck level and covers the edges of the plywood and deck edge plank.

 

I think you could adopt the above sequence and use the first plank to correct your dip by sitting the deck on the plank locally with a bit of shimming on top of the frames to support it.

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Thank you, Keith, for both the instructions and the welcome back. :) I took a break from the house remodel and once I got my hands back on the model, it felt good.  I found out I still had the desire to dive back in.  I feared being away so long that I might have lost interest.  I didn't.

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

 

Edited by Julie Mo

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I found elastic bands very useful for holding the keel strips in place. Also because of the sharp curvature of the keel I did sand off the sides to make them trapezoidal rather than square.

Hi Keith,

 

I was working on the bulb of the keel tonight, laying the first strips on either side of the centerboard.  I immediately realized those keel strips required some serious beveling if you want them to be flush.

 

I didn't sand but rather started off using an inlay thicknessing gauge.  It is beveled at the top of the blade, so I ran the first strip through but when I went to fit it, I found the bevel wasn't severe enough.  Next, I took out a violin maker's plane and ran the strip through that, while holding the plane in my hand, and got a more even thickness but this was still arduous. 

 

During this process I realized I needed to also be aware of reducing the "exposed" part of the strip. All on these tiny little strips of wood.  Whew!

 

So, how did you accomplish sanding the bevel in the bulb strips, keep the thickness consistent and make the bevel correct?

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Hi Keith,

 

I hope all's well with you.  

I am about to do the deck edge plank in preparation for the final planking.  I would like to know how you did the center master plank, i.e., with what wood, how wide, how thick, and how you made the cuts.

 

Sincerely, Francis

Edited by 1-tamad

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Hello Francis

 

I made the deck central plank from mahogany veneer. This was from a marquetry kit that I never got round to attempting. The veneer was the same thickness as the deck planks supplied with the kit - about .030 inch (0.75mm) if memory serves me well. I cut the veneer into strips about .500 inch (12.5mm) wide. I stuck the veneer down with PVA glue while it was still parallel. I cut a piece of brass strip the same width as the deck planks and I used this as a cutting guide to notch out the centre mahogany plank - using a craft knife. I notched out the centre plank and then laid the deck plank before cutting the next notch and laying the next deck plank. Its fairly important to make sure the notches in the central plank are symmetrical.

Edited by KeithAug

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Hi Keith,

 

All's well with you I hope.

 

I am starting the deck planking and am stymied on how to tack the deck planks tightly with the black cardboard caulking sandwiched in between the planks. Is there a technique you used for this?

 

The caulking is unweildy and I'm afraid to find an unevenly spaced caulking strips when I sand it down. I have made a template as you suggested to make notches on the master plank but I can't bring myself to continue past the first deck plank until I hear from the maestro.

 

Again, my sincerest thanks for your advice,

 

Francis

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Hello Francis

 

The deck planking - particularly the caulking is a little tedious.

 

It's quite important to get the right black card. You want card that isnt too friable, I used Clairfontaine Trophee A4 card from Amazon.

 

I used PVA glue and put a thin bead on the deck alongside the previously laid plank - smoothing it out with my finger. I was trying to get a very light film of glue. Having applied the glue I then placed the next plank on the deck near the previous plank and used tweezers to place the 1mm wide card strip between the planks - working from one end I progressively pressed the planks together nipping the card between the planks. The plank being laid was held in place by pins as I had done on the hull planks. I wiped off the glue squeezed out between the planks as I went along. I hope that makes sense but come back to me if it does not.

 

I did my current build "Altair" in the same way and you may find the detail on this build helpful. In a number of the pictures you can see progress and the pins holding the most recently applied plank in place. - Pages 3 and 4 are the most relevant.

Edited by KeithAug

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I have never had good luck using card for caulking.  I once tried using a filler applied with a syringe.  Not bad but I went back to coloring the ed of the plank..  But at the scale I work in that is all that was needed.

David B

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Keith,

 

Thanks.  I will proceed as slowly as I can and use a combination of PVA and thin CA for tacking down the planks and caulking. I hope the CA will not discolor the planking.  I will test it first.

 

With these old hands not being as steady as they used to be, it will be sloowww. But, that the nature of the hobby and it's 'enjoyment'. 

 

Francis

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Hello Keith,

Me again. The hull's done, but I have been stuck for the past few months on the mast. I have glued a graphite golf shaft to an appropriately long dowel and wrapped the whole thing in white monokote (RC plane covering). I filled the inside of the golf shaft with as much epoxy as I could so the small cotter pins that are used as mast runners have material to adhere to. My current problem is to how to align the tiny plastic 'U' channel on the mast's spine so that it's centered and true. I plan to drill holes for the cotter pins on the supplied 'U' channel after it's centered and glued.  Any suggestions? 

Thanks for your continued support and help,

Francis

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Hello Francis. That was a long gap between posts. I don’t always look at the recent posts or my Endeavour build log so it’s a bit  of luck I found this, Anyway to your question. I set the mast on my milling machine table wth shims at the tapered end to get it level and the drilled a series of holes. Then I pinned through the channel into the holes. However all you need to do is scribe a line along the length. So how about setting the mast level on a flat table, using shims at the taper end to make it level, the shim thickness needs to be half the difference between the diameters at the large and small end. Tape the mast to the table and shim a pencil so the point is at a height of half the diameter of the large end. Now with the pencil and shim flat on the table draw a line along the length of the mast. This should give you a line against which to place the channel sighting through the holes for the cotter pins.

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Keith,

 

Just found your log by admiring your gallery photos. Stunning indeed.

Apologies for loading up your in-box with likes

 

 

Regards,

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4 hours ago, md1400cs said:

Keith,

 

Just found your log by admiring your gallery photos. Stunning indeed.

Apologies for loading up your in-box with likes

 

 

Regards,

Thank you Michael and and thank you for all th likes.

Edited by KeithAug

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On 7/5/2015 at 1:31 PM, KeithAug said:

In the Amati kit version the 2.5mm (0.10") by 0.75mm (.030") deck planks are laid commencing at the deck edge, with planks being adjacent to one another without special attention being paid to caulking. I decided to experiment to see if I could achieve a more realistic finish.

 

The following test piece shows the 3 options I considered (all have been sanded).post-17220-0-18947100-1436114980_thumb.j

 

Option 1 - is as Amati envisaged - the effect isn't a distinctive as I wanted.

Option 2 - I have used a felt pen to colour the plank edges before assembly - rejected because the bleed of the edge colour is uneven and unsightly.

Option 3 - I have laid 1mm (.040") strips of thin black card between the planks - this is the option I chose.

post-17220-0-18947100-1436114980_thumb.jpg

Keith, I was looking at your build to get some motivation to get back to mine.  My next step is the deck.  I was thinking about creating a caulk effect, too.

 

The table my model sits on is also used for guitar work.  It has two drawers under the top, one with mostly guitar materials.  I was looking for some tape and saw plastic guitar binding and wondered if this would work.  So I put a piece of black binding in between two planks and it seemed to work.  The "caulk" line was very clear and clean. 

 

The binding I was using is 0.01" thick but it's available in 0.02", 0.04", 0.06", and 0.09" .  For gluing it to a guitar, acetone is used.  That makes me wonder if this method could be useful for this application, too.

 

If I've got the numbers right, the 0.0115" (actual thickness of what I have) binding would translate to 0.4" for a 1:35 scale.  I think caulking should be 1/4" to 1/2" so it should work.

Edited by Julie Mo

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4 hours ago, Julie Mo said:

I was looking for some tape and saw plastic guitar binding and wondered if this would work.

That sounds like a plan Julie. Experimentation is a great way of finding a good solution. In my Altair and Germania builds I used good quality .007" back card which worked well.

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