druxey Posted October 8, 2015 Share #121 Posted October 8, 2015 Ah, yes, Mick: the alcohol and invective solution! Omega1234, mtaylor, dgbot and 1 other 4 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share #122 Posted October 8, 2015 hi don false keel cut from 3/16 x 1/16 stock hog cut from 3/32 x 3/16 stock as a seperate piece on top of the keel.......makes it easier to cut the rebate in the keel this way. ask as many questions as you like,hopefully i will be able to provide an answer but if i cant we can throw it out to the forum.......bound to find out the answer!!!! cheers....mick Chuck Seiler, cog and Canute 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Seiler Posted October 8, 2015 Share #123 Posted October 8, 2015 IS THE HOG AND FALSE KEEL CUT OUT OF the 3/16in stock, the problem I have is I can not visulize were to make the frame cuts do I cut it from the top the 3/16 top. I HOPE I AM EXPLAINING IT OK, also jeff does not give any dimensions like for the keelson etc , also DAN PARISER from the NRG is MY MENTOR GREAt, GREAT HELP ALWAYS AVAILABLE WHEN NEEDED THANKS Don Don, I too am working on the WASHINGTON. I plan to unveil my build log on 11 October. That date should have some significance to all you Washington and Philadelphia builders. I made the keel/hogging and rising wood from the same piece. Using my Byrnes Saw I cut a slot that I will eventually work into the rabbet. To determine where to make the cuts, I cut a section of the keel/rising wood from the plans and glued it to the piece using rubber cement. Normal glue causes it to stretch too much. Prior to this, I marked the cut points on to the wood using the section of the plan that is glued to the build board. This ensures that the paper glued to the keel lines up with the frame location on the build board. It took some doing, but I was able to do it. All this requires that you have enough copies of the plan. NEVER CUT UP YOUR ORIGINAL. I take my plans to a reprographics center which gives precise duplication. Places like Kinkos can be off a percentage or two. On some of my models that doesn't matter. Here it does. The downside is that they will not reproduce any copyrighted material unless you have permission. The upside is that NRG provides a permission letter. Once I have the plan affixed to the keel, I use my Byrnes Saw as a mill, much as Mick did. Chuck dgbot, Omega1234, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Chuck Seiler San Diego Ship Modelers Guild Nautical Research Guild Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, John Smith Shallop Completed: Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch 1/4 scale-Model Shipways plans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted October 11, 2015 Share #124 Posted October 11, 2015 Don....why not actually start a build log of your own. I do think it would be much better and so not to have kinda to builds going on in one topic. I think it would be easier to ask your questions that way. We would all love to see your Washington develop and progress. Chuck yamsterman, Canute, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote Chuck Passaro - MSW Admin Sloop Speedwell - POF scratch Block Island Boat - POF scratch HMS Winchelsea - POB scratch build HM Cutter Cheerful - POB scratch build Royal Barge - POF scratch Medway Longboat- POF Scratch SYREN SHIP MODEL COMPANY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted October 12, 2015 Share #125 Posted October 12, 2015 Don, I sent you a PM on the re-sizing problem rather than hijack Mick's topic. yamsterman, dgbot and Canute 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share #126 Posted October 12, 2015 hi don ive sent you a pm with an answer , or two! , too your question. only to glad to offer what assistance i can cheers...mick mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share #127 Posted October 12, 2015 hi mark thanks! cheers....mick Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share #128 Posted November 27, 2015 WASHINGTON GALLEY PART 8 CANT FRAMES HI ALL ABOUT TIME FOR ANOTHER UPDATE. BEEN DISTRACTED BUILDING FURNITURE FOR ONE OF THE LADS I WORK WITH AND STARTED BUILDING ANOTHER PROJECT......18 CENTURY LANTERN CLOCK . HOWEVER ITS TIME TO GET TO GRIPS WITH THE FORWARD CANT FRAMES.....AWKWARD LITTLE SWINES!!!! FIRST PAIR HAVE BEEN SET.....WAITING FOR THE GLUE TO DRY....NEXT TWO PAIRS WAITING TO GO IN. PHOTOS ATTACHED.....COMMENTS ,CRITISMS...HOWLS OF DERISON GREATLY APPRECIATED!! THE ONE THING I WILL BE DOING IS REPLACING THE LOW ENERGY BULB IN THE SPARE ROOM WITH AN LED BULB...A BRIGHT WHITE ONE......IT SEEMS THAT THE CURRENT BULB IS TOO YELLOW HENCE THE CRAPPY PHOTOS. I ALSO REPLACED THE PREVIOUSLY MADE WOODEN JIGS WITH SOME MADE FROM 5MM ACRYLIC,IT WAS LURKING IN A CORNER AT WORK SO IT HAD TO GO! THE WOODEN ONES WERE FAR TOO CUMBERSOME TO FIT IN THE FAIRLY TIGHT SPACE AT THE BOW, THATS ABOUT IT FOR NOW........MORE CANT FRAMES TOO FIT! CHEERS.....MICK AnobiumPunctatum, aviaamator, paulsutcliffe and 16 others 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted November 27, 2015 Share #129 Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Looking good Mick ... I like that acrylic support/jiggamathing! Give a nice clear view too Cheers Edited November 27, 2015 by cog mtaylor, Omega1234 and Canute 3 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega1234 Posted November 28, 2015 Share #130 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Hi Mike Beautiful work! I also love the Acrylic jig. Cheers and all the best! Patrick Edited November 28, 2015 by Omega1234 dgbot, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote MY SCRATCH BUILT MODELS ARE: Splendid Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28576-splendid-by-omega1234-scale-1500-mega-yacht/ Majestic Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28483-mega-yacht-majestic-by-omega1234-miniature/ Sapphire Mega yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/21088-sapphire-by-omega1234-1388-scale-mega-yacht-66m-8-inch-hull-length/?tab=comments#comment-639898 Genesis - Supersports Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/18168-genesis-by-omega1234-1300-49m-mega-yacht-8-inches-long-finished/?tab=comments#comment-559026http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/14141-shadow-by-omega1234-scale-1300-luxury-60m-mega-yacht-8-inches-long/ SHADOW Luxury Motor Yacht http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/11384-majellan-by-omega1234-luxury-37-metre-motor-yacht-miniature-7-inches-approx/ Majellan Luxury Motor Yacht http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9261Rainbow-j-class-racing-yacht/?p=273543 Rainbow J Class Racing Yacht Mystic Classic Motor Cruiser Symphony Ingomar Schooner: Scratch build Dorade Schooner: <p> Lennox Restoration Warship http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9577-pandora-cutaway-dockyard-style-miniature/?hl=pandora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share #131 Posted November 28, 2015 hi carl and Patrick had to have a rethink with the support jigs for the cant frames........the original wooden ones were far too "clunky".......theres not much space at the front end so something thinner was required........the acrylic was stuffed up a corner in the engineers shop at work.......so it was duly liberated,with permission of course! and is now stuffed up a corner in my workshop..........useful stuff! more cant frames to do this weekend and then on to the hawse pieces.......should prove interesting and frustrating in equal measure. cheers for now.......mick Omega1234, mtaylor, cog and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albert Posted November 28, 2015 Share #132 Posted November 28, 2015 Hi Mike, beautiful work. Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share #133 Posted November 28, 2015 hi albert many thanks....early days yet but those cant frames are proving somthing of a pain! cheers....mick Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvm27 Posted November 28, 2015 Share #134 Posted November 28, 2015 One of the conundrums of plank of frame building is that the more difficult areas of construction, the cants and hawse timbers, are addressed before the relatively easier full frames. Setting the cant frames at the proper angles as well as aligning with the half-breadth can be very challenging. I'd use the lucite jig on the fore face of the cant to insure the angle and a machinist square (http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-H2993-Machinists-Square-4-Piece/dp/B0000DD4EE) to align with the haft breadth on the plan. I also leave a little extra wood on the fore face, as over-bevelling prior to fairing can cause major issues. Finally, don't be afraid to use isopropyl alcohol to remove a cant or hawse timber that doesn't look right. I don't know many plank on frame builders who have not had to redo one (or multiple) cants or hawse timbers. dgbot, Canute, WackoWolf and 2 others 5 Quote GregwebsiteAdmiralty Modelsmoderator Echo Cross-section buildAdmiralty Models Cross-section BuildFinished buildPegasus, 1776, cross-sectionCurrent buildSpeedwell, 1752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 28, 2015 Share #135 Posted November 28, 2015 Can you flip your plexiglas supports around? I realize the gusset backing will be in the way but possibly you need only half of the support? Omega1234, opa, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share #136 Posted November 28, 2015 hi alan ha ha ....hadnt thought of the obvious.......will see if lifes easier with them the other way round! bit of a DOH!!!!!! moment.......nice one! cheers....mick cog, Omega1234, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share #137 Posted November 28, 2015 hi greg life may suddenly become a little easier if I follow alans suggestion in the previous post.........ive bevelled the cants to just outside the printed line on the plan.....so with the thickness of the line as well there should be enough meat left on for final fairing........but if not then the iso will be unleashed and frames remade.........I need the practice prior to starting the echo cross section...and swan....and euryalus....and half a dozen ancre publications should keep me busy till I'm feeble in the cerebral!!! on a different note ive been lurking in the shadows watching your hms speedwell build........plans in the pipeline at any point soonish? the framing seems a lot more complex than ron McCarthy envisaged in his book building hms cruiser I'm presuming that speedwell was the 1752-53 program for 140 ton sloops......ref to ian mclaughlins book pg 213 ? which would make her contemporary with cruiser,wolf and happy albeit with minor differences. I do have the nmm draught for cruiser but my draughtsmanship skills are primitive to say the least hence the question regarding plans. look forward to following your outstanding work on speedwell. cheers....mick Canute, cog, dvm27 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 28, 2015 Share #138 Posted November 28, 2015 Sometimes we are just to close and involved to see "outside the box"... that is where an extra set of eyes come in handy. I like the 'see through' option of the plexiglas I also have a set of machinist's squares and find them very handy So I am torn between Greg's suggestion and what you are doing! mtaylor, Omega1234 and Canute 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share #139 Posted November 29, 2015 hi alan the machinists squares do come in handy ......I have about four pairs in different sizes......the awkward bit is keeping the base of the cant frame fixed to the deadwood as there is no rebate for it to sit in its just glued to the deadwood......and then keeping the lower water line at the right height.....turns into a juggling act. I can see where the square comes in....but the frame still needs to be clamped in some way to hold it in position......I have a multiplicity of clamps.....but none the right size!!!! even my smallest toolmakers clamps are too big ( 1" capacity) not too mention far too heavy......this is a small model even in 1/48 scale. I think some time spent making some clamps a la EDTs build logs would be time well spent! on reflection I should have gone for acrylic supports for the stern and bow aswell as they could have been made less cumbersome.....I may well rejig before I go any further. thanks for the second pair of eyes!!! cheers....mick AON, cog, Canute and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share #140 Posted November 30, 2015 HI ALL WORK ON THE CANT FRAMES CONTINUES......NEXT PAIR HAVE BEEN FITTED. THE ACRYLIC JIGS HAVE HAD A LINE SCRIBED ACROSS AT THE LWL LEVEL....HOPE THIS SHOWS IN THE PHOTOS. THE NEXT TWO PAIRS OF CANT FRAMES WILL HAVE TO BE SUPPORTED BY A FRESH PAIR OF JIGS.......THIS AFTERNOONS JOB WHILST THE GLUES SETTING......UNFORTUNATELY DESPITE ALANS SUGGESTION TURNING THE CURRENT JIGS AROUND MEANS I CANT GET MY CLAMPS IN PLACE. NOT A MAJOR PROBLEM THE BYRNES SAW WILL MAKE SHORT WORK OF MAKING A NEW SET......I SHOULD OF GIVEN MUCH MORE THOUGHT TO THESE JIGS IN THE FIRST PLACE........FILE THAT IN THE MEMORY BANKS FOR THE NEXT BUILD! ANYWAY PHOTOS ENCLOSED FOR YOUR DELICTATION. CHEERS.....MICK Canute, shipmodel, UpstateNY and 13 others 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 30, 2015 Share #141 Posted November 30, 2015 the scribed line is quite clear. looking foward to seeing the next generation of jigs as it might be worth copying (I thought the first generation was ingenious) Omega1234 and Canute 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share #142 Posted November 30, 2015 hi alan already made and in use! upload some more photos later when the camera batteries finished recharging. cheers....mick Omega1234, AnobiumPunctatum and Canute 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share #143 Posted November 30, 2015 HI ALL NEW JIGS ARE IN USE......LAST PAIR OF CANTS DUE TO BE FITTED THIS EVENING AND THEN WE MOVE ON TO THE HAWSE PIECES. BACK TO WORK FOR THE NEXT FOUR NIGHTS SO NO MORE UPDATES FOR A WHILE! PHOTOS ENCLOSED CHEERS.....MICK Wishmaster, AON, Mike Y and 15 others 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted November 30, 2015 Share #144 Posted November 30, 2015 Click! Light bulb on now. One picture (or in this case a series) does the trick. Thanks, Mick! mtaylor and Omega1234 2 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share #145 Posted December 1, 2015 hi ken glad to be of help.......somewhat mystified as to which picture was of help??? cheers....mick Canute, Omega1234 and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted December 1, 2015 Share #146 Posted December 1, 2015 Mick, the first few and the ones showing the overall acrylic supports for the cant frames on top of your build board. Wasn't visualizing the supports until I looked at the overall ones. Takes a while to get stuff drilled into this Irish-Sicilian skull. Omega1234 1 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgbot Posted December 1, 2015 Share #147 Posted December 1, 2015 Mick, your fixtures are a keeper thanks for the photos. David B Omega1234 and mtaylor 2 Quote Work in progress USS Maine in cardstock.http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7446-uss-maine-by-dgbot-hmv-card/#entry220003 Completed Blockade runner Teazer http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6063-blockade-runner-teazer-by-dgbot-card-stock/#entry175967 Completed The Monitor Lehigh http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6920-the-monitor-lehigh-by-dgbot-card-model/#entry203680 Completed Kingston Class MCVD http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/10-kit-build-logs-in-progress/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share #148 Posted December 1, 2015 hi ken and dave glad to be of any help with my heath robinson jigs. it would have been better if I had left another 1- 1 1/2 inchs between the stem and the stem support.......would have provided much better access to the cant frames.......we live and learn hopefully! cheers....mick Canute, dgbot, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted December 2, 2015 Share #149 Posted December 2, 2015 Not much stuffin' up, Mick ... i.e. the acrylic ... Now you find 1" - 1.5" more would be nice ... in your next build you will probably find another option ... we just keep on learning, and the more builds we seee ... the more we might learn - it's just a matter of retention ... (sometimes I feel like a colander with hughe apertures) Cheers Canute, Omega1234, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamsterman Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share #150 Posted December 3, 2015 hi carl the "colander effect" is well known to me.....age related i think!!!!! cheers...mick Canute, mtaylor, Omega1234 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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