jack.aubrey Posted April 23, 2016 Author Share #91 Posted April 23, 2016 Friday, April 23, 2016 It's now more than seven days that I put the steel wool in the vinegar but the solution does not seem yet ready: the color looks roughly the same the vinegar had the first day and the steel wool does not seem to have rusted or oxidized at all.This makes me tempted to say: it is no longer the steel wool than once. . . or it is not the vinegar than once.Really I don't understand what is happening. I tried to reduce the amount of steel wool in the solution and I put the discarded wool in a solution of apple vinegar . . . so now I have to tests pending.Maybe it's ready and works perfectly but at the moment it is not known whether this is true.Vinegar of bad quality or incorruptible steel wool (such as stainless steel)? Or maybe that it will take some months as the cited website article wrote ? Regards, Jack. Canute, dashi and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasg Posted April 23, 2016 Share #92 Posted April 23, 2016 Probably a combination of both Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted April 23, 2016 Share #93 Posted April 23, 2016 Jack, I've made this solution, but don't remember how long it took to turn into a staining mixture. No more than a week, I seem to remember. mtaylor 1 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share #94 Posted April 24, 2016 (edited) Many thanks to all of you for your encouraging messages . . This morning, Sunday, April 24th, after nine days, the situation is as follows: - image 01 shows the solution just after its preparation on April 16th; - image 02 as it is today, after I removed some steel wool and added some new vinegar, - image 03 shows the second sample I made with the discarded steel wool from first sample and using apple vinegar (remember that the color of this vinegar is darker). Something seems to be happened, the solution is not darker but is more cloudy, but it will be enough ? In a few days I'll try to stain some wood . . may be it works. 01 20160416_113430.jpg 02 20160424_131704.jpg 03 20160424_131721.jpg Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey dashi, mtaylor, Mumin and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share #95 Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Tuesday, April 26, 2016 After a wait state of more than a week since I prepared the vinegar/steel wool solution and having not seen any significant change in color, rather discouraged, I come to the conclusion that, before archiving this experience, it would be worth to make a couple of tests . . just to understand better this strange situation. So I took the two solutions I prepared, one with classic vinegar and the other with apple vinegar and, as instructed, I filtered them with a sieve for tea and let them decant for +/- one hour while I went to get the same timber used for the Viking ship deck. The amazing thing is that after about an hour since I filtered the solution and thrown away the steel wool, the colour of the two solutions "suddenly" became much more dark . . So I proceeded to brush the two solutions on the wood samples and, after a few minutes, just long enought to let the wood dry, I realized that the solution was properly working . . and very, very well ! Encouraged, I continued with the tests. Between the two different acid solutions there were not much differences, the one with apple vinegar gave a slightly lighter color after drying. However, both seemed too dark, although realistic, for my mind. I then diluited a part of the solution (the one with the classic vinega) with water in proportion 1 to 1 and made another test: slightly lighter result but still too dark . . Another dilution with water and another test. I repeated this process for 6-7 times always adding water. At the end I found the concentration that was working for me: say about 1 part of the original solution, and 9-10 parts of water. With these proportions I got a color that I felt was fine for the type of timber used. So, at this point, I decided to do the "real" work on the ship deck. The result can be seen in the two images below. The images, especially the colours, do not give totally the idea of the result: with natural light the weathering is more evidently highlighted. Among other things, I noticed that the samples used in the tests over time tend to darken further, so what you see may change slightly tomorrow, presenting itself a few darker pattern. We'll see. I still have an additional option, if necessary: a second coat of the liquid, which will darken even more the wood, highlighting the gray tone. But I prefer to wait until tomorrow to decide . . just to see the stabilized result. Finally, after this satisfactory result (at least for me), I want to thank all the people who participated at this discussion. Greetings, Jack. 01 20160426_123151.jpg 02 20160426_123203.jpg Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey mrshanks, Canute, mtaylor and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted April 28, 2016 Share #96 Posted April 28, 2016 That is great to hear that it worked, Jack. I've wondered about that method and now that I've seen it, I'm impressed. Canute and jack.aubrey 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted April 28, 2016 Share #97 Posted April 28, 2016 How lasting is this stain? Jan mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share #98 Posted April 28, 2016 How lasting is this stain? Jan I think permanent, But it's suggested to finish with a coat of transparent paint or bees vax. Rgds, Jack. mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share #99 Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) Here some new images . . On the terrace, cloudy weather, no flash . . 01 20160427_142044.jpg 02 20160427_142036.jpg 03 20160427_142050.jpg Inside home, with flash and artificial light . . 04 20160427_145749.jpg Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey Fam, Cathead, yvesvidal and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share #100 Posted May 5, 2016 Many thanks to all of you for your positive comments.I believe it's the strenght of this kind of software applications, such as forums, to simplify and favour the exchange of experiences and ideas between their members. In our case modellers. Another positive effect is to encourage potential new modellers to start, being sure that they can easily find support when needed. Without the motivation coming from your suggestions I'd probably followed another method . . may be better or not, who knows.It's now coming the time to come back to my house near to Milan, after +/- six months passed in Tuscany. For this reason I'm going to close the shipyard here but, considering that the main amount of work on this model is over, I'm thinking to pack everything and to continue at home: considering what remains to do, it's reasonable to imagine the completion in a couple of months, also sharing the time with the other shipyard (HMS Guadeloupe) I'm managing there.Most probably, my next messages will be originated from my main workshop in Milan where I think to stay until the end of August. If I'll be successful in finishing the Gokstad ship in time, my next return to Tuscany will probably coincide with the start of a brand new model.Kind regards, Jack.Aubrey dashi, Landlubber Mike, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted May 6, 2016 Share #101 Posted May 6, 2016 Have a safe trip home, Jack. Canute and dashi 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share #102 Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) Monday, June 6th, 2016 Quote It's now coming the time to come back to my house near to Milan, after +/- six months passed in Tuscany. For this reason I'm going to close the shipyard here but, considering that the main amount of work on this model is over, I'm thinking to pack everything and to continue at home: considering what remains to do, it's reasonable to imagine the completion in a couple of months, also sharing the time with the other shipyard (HMS Guadeloupe) I'm managing there. Most probably, my next messages will be originated from my main workshop in Milan where I think to stay until the end of August. If I'll be successful in finishing the Gokstad ship in time, my next return to Tuscany will probably coincide with the start of a brand new model. Kind regards, Jack.Aubrey According with my previous statement, here quoted, I've resumed today this shipyard. I came back to my house close to Milan two weeks ago but I had too many task to take care before modelling, so I can start something on the Viking ship only today. I'm installing the several shields on the sides of the ship. These shields were a typical feature of these ships. Here below two images of the work done today, just a quarter of the whole. Regards, Jack.Aubrey. 01 20160606_160424.jpg 02 20160606_201312_HDR.jpg Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey Daniel Dusek, Seventynet, mtaylor and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted June 7, 2016 Share #103 Posted June 7, 2016 It's great to see you back, Jack. I like the work on the shields as they look great. dashi, Seventynet, jack.aubrey and 1 other 4 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share #104 Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 The starboard side of the ship is now over, with all its shields in place . . now it's time for the port side. Is more beautiful the Viking ship or the sage plant in the background ? 01 20160607_160807.jpg 02 20160607_160823.jpg 03 20160607_160836.jpg Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey yvesvidal, mtaylor, juhu and 8 others 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesvidal Posted June 9, 2016 Share #105 Posted June 9, 2016 What is more beautiful the Viking ship or the sage plant in the background ? Jack, I think both are gorgeous and serve their purposes. Yves jack.aubrey, Canute, dashi and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted June 11, 2016 Share #106 Posted June 11, 2016 The sage is beautiful, but what ship modellers really need is more thyme. Lovely model. yvesvidal, mtaylor, gjdale and 1 other 4 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share #107 Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Saturday, June 11th, 2016 The shields installation is now over . . Now I'm starting another task: building the oars . . Thanks to everybody for the positive appreciations. Rgds, Jack.Aubrey 01 20160611_163647.jpg 02 20160611_163637.jpg 03 20160611_163659.jpg Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey Canute, Ponto, Cathead and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share #108 Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) Sunday, June 12, 2016 After a few days of training on the usage of the mini lathe PROXXON DB250, when finally I felt ready enough, I started to build a couple of oars which equipped the Viking ship. The starting raw material is a 3mm beech dowel. The kit provides rods of the same diameter of lime wood. I preferred to use the beechwood because during the tests the limewood sometimes broke. This problem never occurred me with a harder wood such as beech. To lathe the handle of the oar (diameter 1.5 mm) and the main part of the oar (diameter 2mm) it takes a lot of patience and care. Once finished with the lathe, to shape the blade I used the belt sander PROXXON BS/E, much more effective than other manual tools such as files and/or sanding blocks. Anyway, to build an oar with this procedure I took about 30 minutes, most of them working at the lathe . . . so far so good but the problem is that I have to build 30 of them !!!! Here below a picture of what the instructions say and two photos of how I interpreted, in my own way, the shape of the oar. Once completed the oar will then be dyed with mordant, even if the idea to paint with dark red or yellow the oar blades is strong . . Cheers, Jack. 01 Oars.jpg 02 20160611_193228.jpg 03 20160611_193155.jpg Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey dashi, yvesvidal, Cathead and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share #109 Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Tuesday, June 21th, 2016 About 10 days ago I posted my last message where I showed the "first oar" for this ship. The oar was made using a minilathe for wood. Here what happened during these past 10 days: - the first two days I was able to build only three new oars as my limited experience with the lathe led me to break many pieces while using the tool in an unsatisfactory way; - then, slowly and mistake after mistake, I learned the right method and the correct sequence of execution and from that moment I had no more broken pieces; - however, given the repetitive and boring nature of the task and its relative slowness, I set myself the goal to run 5 oars per session, not more. Now it remains to prepare the last five oars and this task will be finally over . . 01 20160621_163446.jpg In the above picture you will notice that, apart from the three oars at the top, the tip (blade?) is not yet shaped. This will be the next step as soon as the last five will be ready. The temptation to paint the tips with the same yellow color used for the shields is strong. Perhaps, for the rest of the oar, the obvious color should be the same tar brown of the hull but I would prefer a lighter nuance, to add more color effects at the whole model. Cheers, Jack. Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey mtaylor, Canute, Cathead and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbogdan Posted June 22, 2016 Share #110 Posted June 22, 2016 I would greatly appreciate if you would like to describe how you made those great oars! I´m going to build the Dusek Bireme as my next model and that one has many oars. So to avoid doing the same mistakes a tutorial would be great. mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Built ships http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13384-the-pinta-by-torbogdan-dusek-shipmodels-172/ http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13673-hanse-kogge-by-torbogdan-dusek-ship-models/page-5#entry458535 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share #111 Posted June 23, 2016 I would greatly appreciate if you would like to describe how you made those great oars! I´m going to build the Dusek Bireme as my next model and that one has many oars. So to avoid doing the same mistakes a tutorial would be great. Hi, it should be a nice idea. When I'll resume the building of the last five oars I'll try to take some photos of the entire process and then I'll try to setup something. Unfortunately I can't take a movie (that should be probably the best) because I need someone that takes it while I'm working . . but I'm alone. Rgds, Jack. dashi, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra1951 Posted June 23, 2016 Share #112 Posted June 23, 2016 That is one neat and well made model mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Bob Current Build HMB Endeavour - Occre 1:54 Completed Builds Section Deck Between Gun Bays - Panart 1:23 scale....x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbogdan Posted June 23, 2016 Share #113 Posted June 23, 2016 A movie would be nice but a written description is enough for me. A short text how to do it and a "lessons learned" text. mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Built ships http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13384-the-pinta-by-torbogdan-dusek-shipmodels-172/ http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13673-hanse-kogge-by-torbogdan-dusek-ship-models/page-5#entry458535 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share #114 Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) How I made the ship oars with my wood mini lathe Some days ago I was asked to prepare a tutorial about the method I used to prepare the 30+ oars of the Gokstad Viking ship. During the session I build the last five oars still needed I took, after each important step, an image of the work done. This in order to make (I hope) easy to understand how I worked and the correct usage of the lathe for this task. Image 01 shows the raw material I used to build the oar: a rod of beechwood with diameter +/- 4mm. The total length of each rod is in my case 18mm circa and each oar has four segments of 13mm (handle, +/- 1.5-1.7mm diameter), 30mm (not to work on), 82mm (to be reduced at 2.5mm diameter), and the remaining (blade, not to work on for the moment). Each segment is marked on the rod with a pencil before starting to work on the lathe. 01 Tornio/10_zpslvyqlcxx.jpg The tools used for this task: mini sanding blocks of different grade, chisels of different shapes: everyone will find the better suitable for him or for the task. 02 Tornio/15_zpswkv2wz7r.jpg Insert the rod into the lathe clamp after having previously drilled a small hole on the tip close to the handle side. Clamp the rod 20mm after the end of the 13+30mm markers. Block the stable tool support as close as possible to the rod. 03 Tornio/20_zps0cdgbgg3.jpg Position the tailstock with the quill travel, center the small hole on the tip and block it. 04 Tornio/25_zpsfgbeqfhn.jpg Power on the lathe and reduce the diameter of the rod as shown below with your preferred tool. Personally I use first the chisel and later the sanding blocks to refine. 05 Tornio/30_zpsw25jxosg.jpg Poweroff the lathe and extract another 2mm rod from the lathe and clamp it again . . 06 Tornio/35_zpsrwk9niuu.jpg Power on the lathe and restart the diameter reduction for the next 20mm segment . . 07 Tornio/40_zpsoypuqveo.jpg Repeat the steps until you reach the end of the 82mm. segment. The reason I proceeded working only of 20mm segments is related to the flexibility of the reduced diameter area (about 2.5mm). If you work on longer segments you risk to break the rod and the complete work done is then lost. 08 Tornio/45_zpswnjneuau.jpg 09 Tornio/50_zpsj5xn71tv.jpg At this point insert the rod into the lathe, close to the oar handle. Clamp the rod and position the tailstock again. 10 Tornio/55_zpsmgdzlrdj.jpg Lathe the oar handle. The handle should have a diameter of 1.5-1.7mm. 11 Tornio/60_zpsuryuj1gr.jpg Cut the excess tip, now no more useful and refine with sanding block. 12 Tornio/65_zpsfiqoqsl2.jpg Extract the oar from the lathe; now this task is over and it remains only to shape the blade . . 13 Tornio/70_zpsgirr6tfm.jpg All the oars are finished . . although the blade shaped tips are still to be done . . will be a matter for next messages. 14 Tornio/20160621_163501_zpsi2myuze1.jpg That's all for now . . to the next progress step (blade tips). Regards, Jack.Aubrey. Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey Canute, cristikc, gjdale and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share #115 Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 Second phase of the oars construction: the blades have already been shaped by a specific processing, using, for roughing, the belt sander BS/E from Proxxon fixed on a vise in a inverted position and, for finishing, a normal sandpaper. Then, when the 30+ blades were over, I went further to stain the wood as its natural color, as you can see in the picture 02, is too light. 01 20160629_172404.jpg 02 20160629_172351.jpg Finally, I painted a) the blades (work still in progress, four coats of paint are needed !!) with the same acrylic yellow used to paint the shields and the handle of the oar, painted with the same dark red used for shields too. 03 20160703_171942.jpg 04 20160703_171746.jpg Their appearance seem now to much new !! Just left the shipyard . . Thinking to another ageing process. To next time, Jack. Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey Seventynet, Tadeusz43, Canute and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share #116 Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Tuesday, July 12, 2016 Today I drilled the hull to prepare the oars housings: holes of 3mm diameter to be carefully drilled. In fact I started with a drill bit of 1mm, then 2mm and, finally, 3mm. Subsequently, in order to let the oar blade to pass in the hole, I run a slight lateral incision into the hole so that it lets only pass the blade and not the rest. Obviously the lat incision is made in the right direction for the force applied during the rowing. The finishing is made with a round nail file to remove burrs and a coat of stain to darken the wood thickness that, after the drilling, is clear. Display test for the finished model, with oars inserted in their slots. . what about ? There is a drawback: the greater width of the display case, but on a model of this size this is not a real problem. I'm also thinking that probably it's not the case of aging alchemies for the oars, because the coordinated view with the shields does not seem out of place at all. . Regards, Jack. 01 20160712_125238.jpg 02 20160712_125231.jpg 03 20160712_125223.jpg Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey Seventynet, dashi, Canute and 8 others 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share #117 Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) A few more photos to show the visual effect of the oars exposed outboard. This time I tried to put the model into a lower position, using another "building slip", so that the tips of the oars now lie on the hypothetical ground of the case. In this way you can better position the oars, with an aesthetic effect that seems much better to me. But with the positioning of the oars in this way the logic would dictate that the yard/sail should not be mounted. . The mast can stay installed erected but the yard should be exposed, only with the inferred sail rolled up, on special supports amidships. They are three in total but the pictures here show only the middle one, placed on the deck. 01 20160712_181741.jpg 02 20160712_181731.jpg Any Comments ? Jack. Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey Canute, yvesvidal, Daniel Dusek and 8 others 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 13, 2016 Share #118 Posted July 13, 2016 The advantage is that a bunch of oars on deck would look a bit bulky. The disadvantage is that your model needs some casing to protect the 'fragile' oars.... Jan mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack.aubrey Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share #119 Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Thursday, July 21, 2016 Started the tasks to build the display case basement, to be completed, at the end, with a plexiglass cover . . The basement seen from its natural position: stained with a chestwood colored solution, the groove to hold in the plexiglass cover ready, with the outer frame that will be painted with the same dark red colour I used for the shields. 01 20160721_171211.jpg The lower part of the basement, with four wooden "feet" already added, to be painted dark red too. 02 20160721_171237.jpg A detail of the four lower feet (is it the right term ?): I used simple knobs for drawers, easily available in DIY stores. I used a two-component epoxy glue, enforced with an internal metal pin. 03 20160721_171229.jpg Edited August 6, 2017 by jack.aubrey mtaylor, Daniel Dusek, cobra1951 and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventynet Posted July 22, 2016 Share #120 Posted July 22, 2016 Hi Jack, I just want to say what a beautiful job you are doing on the Gokstad. I have been building the same kit for the last week and I find I am constantly turning to your log to see how you've done things. So I really appreciate your step by step details. I hope you also show the rest of your plexiglass showcase construction as I have a few I need to build. One area that slows me down is how to finish the planks at the bow and stern. When you look at the reconstructed real ship it is evident that they carried the clinker plank overlap right to the ends. I think that's how the clinker system is supposed to work. So far (first 4 planks including the garboard) I am ending the overlap a few centimeters before terminating the planks so that they are edge to edge as they seat into a rabet that I cut. The way the final ribs are cut doesn't seem to invite the planks overlapping at the ends. Anyway beautiful job! Regards, Ian Canute 1 Quote Builds in progress - Hayling Hoy Builds completed - Naval Cutter Cheerful - by Syren Ship Model Company - Cape Cod Catboat - by Bluejacket - Gokstad - by Dusek - Ship's Boat - by Dusek - Brazzera - by MarisStella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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