mikiek Posted December 29, 2015 Share #1 Posted December 29, 2015 This is just my sheer ignorance in the metal work world. I was bending some 1/16" brass strip into a U shape, or more accurately a 3 sided square. In this application each side was about 1/8". I was using a needlenose plier and a small hammer to try to get decent 90 degree bends. The result was fair but could have been better. So what I am wondering is if there are some type of shaping forms that I can use to hammer brass strips on. Some square rods, circular, and maybe even triangular - probably a set with various sizes. I have plenty of brass rods & tubes but I doubt beating brass on brass is going to work. I'm sure there is something out there but I don't know what to look for. Let me know how you guys do it. mtaylor, Robin Lous, thibaultron and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 29, 2015 Share #2 Posted December 29, 2015 Mike, Anneal the brass first. Heat to red hot and let cool. It'll soften it and make it easier to bend. As for forms.. check around places like Amazon for small anvils. For a cheaper method, check around Home Depot and Lowe's in the hardware department. They sell steel stock that might be usable. thibaultron, GLakie, shiloh and 10 others 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted December 29, 2015 Share #3 Posted December 29, 2015 Mike, I strongly suggest you invest in a pair of quality parallel grip pliers with straight (not tapered) sides. For the brass work below, I annealed the brass as Mark suggested, scored the strip where I wanted the bend, inserted into the plier at 90* to the side, bent, and gave it a small tap with a hammer. I seem to recall that you can find the pliers for about $20. I use them constantly when working with metal. Best, John avsjerome2003, cristikc, Ray1981 and 16 others 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaddoc Posted December 29, 2015 Share #4 Posted December 29, 2015 How do you keep the brass shiny? doesn't it get discoloured with heating? Ray1981, thibaultron and tasmanian 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted December 29, 2015 Share #5 Posted December 29, 2015 I just give it a light going over with the steel brush wheel I'm my Dremel Best, John Mark P, tasmanian, shiloh and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikiek Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted December 30, 2015 Sounds like just the ticket John. Beautiful metalwork! Thanks for sharing. The other thing that has caught my eye is something they call a forming bezel. They come in various shapes - round, square, triangle. I've found both the pliers and the bezels on Amazon. Ray1981, Canute, Bill Hime and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtropp Posted December 30, 2015 Share #7 Posted December 30, 2015 If pieces need to be "re-hardened" how would it be done. I'm thinking of pieces that need to be bent, but then need to hold some weight or pressure. Richard thibaultron and Brucealanevans 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J T Lombard Posted December 30, 2015 Share #8 Posted December 30, 2015 John Could you post a picture of the pliers you use in your metal work? regards J Mirabell61 and thibaultron 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbshan Posted December 30, 2015 Share #9 Posted December 30, 2015 If pieces need to be "re-hardened" how would it be done. I'm thinking of pieces that need to be bent, but then need to hold some weight or pressure. Richard I discovered that the only method open to the non-commercial metal worker was to work-harden the brass. http://uvsmgshipmodelguild.wikispaces.com/Copper+Tempering mtaylor, Canute, shiloh and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 30, 2015 Share #10 Posted December 30, 2015 Joel, Quenching in oil or water wouldn't re-harden the brass? I'm just curious as I've not done any metalsmithing to speak of. thibaultron, Canute and GLakie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbshan Posted December 30, 2015 Share #11 Posted December 30, 2015 Joel, Quenching in oil or water wouldn't re-harden the brass? I'm just curious as I've not done any metalsmithing to speak of. No. It's a long and complicated process. You can even quench the hot metal and it will stay soft and workable. Google it if you like. mtaylor, Canute, GLakie and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted December 30, 2015 Share #12 Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Joel, Mark, et al, Scroll down in this forum and you will see a thread called re-hardening brass. The basic answer is: one can't. I'm having a bit of a hard time imagining when you would need to do it. Under almost all circumstances where I'm worried about strength, I'm sure to silver solder my bands, eye-bolts, or whatever. There's a small learning curve but I now find it easier than soft soldering. Best, John Joel, Here's the pic.s and links http://www.micromark.com/parallel-jaw-plier-flat-nose-with-straight-jaws,11523.html Edited December 30, 2015 by Landlocked123 cristikc, tadheus, mtaylor and 13 others 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J T Lombard Posted December 31, 2015 Share #13 Posted December 31, 2015 John Thanks for picture & link J GLakie, thibaultron, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikiek Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share #14 Posted January 4, 2016 Hey John - you mentioned scoring the pieces at the bend. What do you use for that? Mark - I'm working on some metal work for the mast. Took your advice and heated up the strips first. WOW! What a difference. The strip is amazingly pliable now. GLakie, Canute, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted January 5, 2016 Share #15 Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Hi Mike, It's not really a score as much as a scratch to mark the location and angle of the bends. I use a Starrett pocket scriber, but an X-acto knife would work as well as. Best, John Edited January 5, 2016 by Landlocked123 thibaultron and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted January 25, 2016 Share #16 Posted January 25, 2016 John, Very nice metal work indeed. What vessel and scale? Thanks Allan Canute, thibaultron and BANYAN 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkay11 Posted January 26, 2016 Share #17 Posted January 26, 2016 There was a discussion about the characteristics of copper, bronze and brass in 2013. See http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/2102-copper-bronze-and-brass-how-to-treat-them/#entry50895. Wefalck in particular made some good points. Tony GLakie, thibaultron, Martin W and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfish Posted January 26, 2016 Share #18 Posted January 26, 2016 also be aware that brass hardens the more you work it, so it might be necessary to anneal every now and them. http://www.bnamodelworld.com/hobby-tools-supplies-photo-etch-tools these tools are designed for photoetch, but i dont see why they wouldnt work on similar sized brass parts. mtaylor, Canute, druxey and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reklein Posted January 31, 2016 Share #19 Posted January 31, 2016 Check out Ken Forans book on building in brass. Everything you need to know about brass. Schiffer books. No financial connection just a good book. Bill thibaultron, mtaylor, Bill Hime and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLakie Posted February 1, 2016 Share #20 Posted February 1, 2016 I second that! Own the book myself, and found it to be a good investment. Bill's right! Canute, CaptainSteve, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack12477 Posted February 1, 2016 Share #21 Posted February 1, 2016 Me too. I have the book also. Bill's right GLakie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikiek Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share #22 Posted February 1, 2016 Ordered this morning...... mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J T Lombard Posted February 1, 2016 Share #23 Posted February 1, 2016 Ordered mine just now mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PriceMachine&Design Posted February 1, 2016 Share #24 Posted February 1, 2016 you could try checking K&S , they use to sell brass u-channel in small sizes as well as square tube mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikiek Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share #25 Posted February 1, 2016 John or nayone - hope you might still be following this. I have one more technique question for you . Let's say I have a strip in the parallel pliers coming out the side and I want to bend it 90 degrees. If I just push the strip with a finger, that bend/corner comes out a little rounded. How do you get a nice sharp corner? mtaylor and GLakie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLakie Posted February 1, 2016 Share #26 Posted February 1, 2016 That's where having a vise or anvil would come in handy! Bill Hime, mtaylor and dvm27 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikiek Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share #27 Posted February 1, 2016 That raises the same question. Whether the material is gripped in a vise, anvil or parallel pliers - what do you use to bend/push the part that is sticking out? When I just push with my finger the corner has some roundness to it. I suppose with an anvil you could hammer it? GLakie and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robnbill Posted February 1, 2016 Share #28 Posted February 1, 2016 Mike, you are going to have some rounding when you bend anything. Even the excellent work that John showed above the corners are rounded. As you suggested you could pound the corners square, but that would tend to cut the inside corner through unless you were extremely careful. You could also make it larger and file the excess material off to give a more square look. Lastly the only real square way would be to butt and solder two flat surfaces together at 90 degrees. If you solder from the inside of the corner, you could get a square outside. GLakie, shiloh, mischief and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikiek Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share #29 Posted February 2, 2016 Bill - I suspect I am being a bit anal about the corners. Like we always say - the average person looking at my build would never notice. I guess it's the ship-o-holic in me. Heaven help me if I took your last suggestion and started soldering flat parts for all my metal work. GLakie, robnbill and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted February 2, 2016 Share #30 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Hi Mike, I suppose it would be possible to use a fine sanding drum in a Dremel to square off the rounded edge on the outside. But I'm good with getting them as the look in the pictures. But I do take an extra step. I line up the place where I want to bend square to the jaws, I then bent with my fingers, but then, while holding the pliers tightly I put the tips down on the bench and use a very small hammer to tighten the bend. I don't know if this makes sense so I will try to post a picture in the next few days. Best, John Edited February 2, 2016 by Landlocked123 mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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